Hubertj wrote: » i don't agree with removing such statues. It is part of history, whether right or wrong is not the point. People should be educated as to what happened and why. Having said that, must have been a serious low life to ask Nazis for assistance.
Hubertj wrote: » Having said that, must have been a serious low life to ask Nazis for assistance.
Pkiernan wrote: » What a great response. That's me outwitted! How do you reconcile SF supporters washing diesel and polluting our beautiful country with toxic sludge with national pride? Or is the only thing green about the SF morons the diesel?
Mortelaro wrote: » https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1270987558462373896?s=19
blanch152 wrote: » About time, and to think he is still celebrated by many Sinn Fein supporters. A Nazi collaborator statue has no place.
maccored wrote: » whats more moronic is not realising the things a border brings with it - smuggling being one. People living on the border might be involved in smuggling, some of whom might be republicans, but its pretty obvious many arent. If you want to stop smuggling, get rid of the border - dont be unfairly blaming one side for it.
blanch152 wrote: » Borders bring smugglers, yes, that it true, nobody disputes that. In itself, that isn't reason to get rid of a border. However, the problem people have, is not the existence of borders or of smugglers that exploit them, it is the celebration of criminal smuggler thugs as "good republicans" as the former leader of Sinn Fein repeatedly did, and for which the current leadership refuse to apologise.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Is this person a member of SF? Why would SF have to apologise for somebody who isn't a member? I think Adams fully criticised him for the crime he was convicted of as well, stating that it was wrong.
JohnnyFlash wrote: » He’s a member of the group who decide the long-term strategies and important decisions for SF. Have I proof? Or course not -
FrancieBrady wrote: » Ok...we'll leave it there so.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Maybe he saw the Royals fraternising with them all through the 30's and the British Government and others turning a blind eye to them blatantly breaking the Versailles Treaty?There isn't a single record of him espousing Nazi ideology. Were there more blatant fascists in Ireland during the period...hmmmmm, let me google that.
JohnnyFlash wrote: » He’s a member of the group who decide the long-term strategies and important decisions for SF. Have I proof? Or course not - the OC don’t publish their meeting minutes on the IRA.ie website. Do the various intelligence agencies, other political parties, and the dogs in the street in west Belfast know who is pulling the strings? Or course they do. I can give you some of the other names if you like.
JohnnyFlash wrote: » If only you could, Francie. If only you could.
blanch152 wrote: » Hmmm. let me see.......https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/ "in July 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement outlining its position on the war. The statement made clear that if ‘German forces should land in Ireland, they will land . . . as friends and liberators of the Irish people’. The public was assured that Germany desired neither ‘territory nor . . . economic penetration’ in Ireland but only that it should play its part in the ‘reconstruction’ of a ‘free and progressive Europe’. The Third Reich was also praised as the ‘energising force’ of European politics and the ‘guardian’ of national freedom." "War News, the IRA’s main publication, became increasingly pro-Nazi in tone, even claiming active IRA involvement in the German bombing of British cities. But more chillingly it began to ape anti-Semitic arguments. Satisfaction was expressed that the ‘cleansing fire’ of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. " You might want to withdraw your statement in bold.
Was this simply a more extreme form of the widespread ‘sneaking regard’ in Ireland for German military victories over the British during 1940? After all, much of nationalist Ireland refused to believe that any form of oppression was worse than that inflicted by the British. What differentiated the IRA from other sections of nationalist opinion, however, is that the organisation had an anti-Nazi history. In 1933 the IRA’s newspaper An Phoblacht had condemned ‘Hitlerism’ as a ‘disease’. After the Nazis came to power the paper attacked those ‘rather foolish people’ in Ireland who praised Hitler. It criticised anti-Semitism and drew attention to the similarity between the Blueshirts in Ireland and fascists elsewhere in Europe.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Soon as you show him uttering a single line of Nazi rhetoric or ideology, then I will withdraw what I said. Russell was according to the same article 'uninterested in political debate'. And the same article also has this to say I think a good debate on the Russell issue would be cathartic here too as we would have to address who the real fascists were at that time in Ireland...for comparison.
Deleted User wrote: » Name the present chief of staff? Under rules,upon arrest/imprisionment it changes,who is now presently chief of staff there,since slab was imprisioned few years ago? Indeed,when was last time the army council met,to best my knowledge it hasnt in 10 plus years All billy big balls,willing to name names etc,while anyone i ever asked,seems to.back away from these questions, Which seem obvious place to start,how is that
Mortelaro wrote: » You're not seriously suggesting that the IRA of the 1940's and FG of the same time had something in common, wanting Hitler to win? I don't think you are but it's a side effect of what you said For context,no one in Ireland in the war ,much less in the 30's was aware of Hitler's genocidal plans So on that basis we're all looking back at those times with today's knowledge and standards, which is a bit pointless
blanch152 wrote: » It is a good idea to look at the timings of various happenings. For example, the "Blueshirt" taunting of Fine Gael as quasi-Fascists is historically inaccurate. There was a split in Fine Gael, less than two years after it was founded, leading to those with fascist tendencies leaving completely and founding the National Corporate Party. That split was 1934, before the enactment of the Nuremburg Laws and the full horror of Nazism was revealed.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Corporate_Party In essence then, the claim that Fine Gael had links to fascism centres around a short period of time after its foundation at a time when the evils of fascism weren't widely known, when there was a struggle for the leadership and direction of the party, which the fascist element lost and left the party for another direction. What was interesting about the article I posted earlier, was the reference in it to links between the fascist remnants of the Blueshirts which weren't welcome in Fine Gael and the IRA. It was a link that I had previously been unaware of "The strategist of the bombing campaign, James O’Donovan, was also seen by some as influenced by fascist thinking. It was in this context that IRA officers could approach Eoin O’Duffy, who as a Free State general, Garda Commissioner and Blueshirt leader had been a sworn enemy of their organisation, and offer him a place in its leadership. Clearly a section of the leadership at least was also happy to revel in Nazi successes." There are some very dark elements to the history of the IRA in that period. "the argument that Russell and the IRA could have had no idea of the nature of Nazi policies is spurious." "Seán Russell may have been uninterested in political debate but he was hardly unaware of these matters. That he was happy to take up residence in Berlin as a guest of the Nazis, meet their high command and propose plans for military action in support of a German invasion was collaboration, whatever his private motivation." "unlike these hypothetical collaborators, the IRA actually wanted a German invasion and was in a position for a period to physically assist one. That is the central problem that many still refuse to face up to." It is a very balanced and accurate historical account that makes for very interesting reading.https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/ Another interesting article on IRA/Nazi links.https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/new-evidence-on-iranazi-links/
Links were made with fascist organisations on the continent. Even as O’Duffy was made President of the new Fine Gael party, the more staid conservatives in the ranks began to run scared of the street battles and the General’s increasingly wild pronouncements. Nevertheless, a future Taoiseach, John A. Costello, during a debate on a bill to outlaw paramilitary uniform in 1934, told the Dáil that ‘the Blackshirts were victorious in Italy and that the Hitler shirts were victorious in Germany, as, assuredly, in spite of this Bill and in spite of the Public Safety Act, the Blueshirts will be victorious in the Irish Free State’.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » SF should be more vocal on the BLM protests but i guess all the people they get money from the states from are trumpers now.
FrancieBrady wrote: » And dark elements in FG of the period. However much you try to trivialise/whitewash it, there is this fact.https://www.lookleftonline.org/2010/08/fine-gaels-fascist-roots/ My view, expressed before, is acceptance that these things happened, Russell's stupid dalliance included. I point the finger at the generation not at single people or party's because it feeds into my bias. Discuss it all openly, or not at all.
Edgware wrote: » That approach wouldnt really meet "the baying mobs with pitchforks" way we do things here
FrancieBrady wrote: » My view, expressed before, is acceptance that these things happened, Russell's stupid dalliance included.
Deleted User wrote: » He wasn't on a solo run. The IRA at the time were fully behind him, considering he was their leader, and to this day Sinn Fein commemorate him as an Irish patriot.
Chiparus wrote: » And Roger Casemen t. A hero, anti-slavery campaigner and British Knight.
dundalkfc10 wrote: » No acknowledgement for the wonderful job SF have done north of the border, 4 days now with 0 deaths. See what happens when they are in charge
blanch152 wrote: » How do you know that? To the best of my knowledge, it meets an awful lot more regularly than that. See how this works.
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