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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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kippy

The reality of the 2% is:
1. It's part of a legally agreed roadmap of pay and conditions restoration.
2. The net cost to the state is not 2%
3. It is very likely that shortly after far more than 2% will be shorn off public sector wages using the various channels of negotion available.

Jim Root

JJJackal wrote: »

You certainly dont give yourself a 2% payrise (a rise that will have eventually have to be taken back you would think??)

Bingo

JJJackal

ParkRunner wrote: »

I think the logic is you don’t cut yourself out of a recession as it just prolongs it. It depends on the wider state of the economy really and how long any recession might last. Needs a bit more analysis than knee jerk reactions as once a pay cut is signaled that’s a whole lot of money that’s going to immediately be banked rather than spent in anticipation

You certainly dont give yourself a 2% payrise (a rise that will have eventually have to be taken back you would think??)

[Deleted User]

Treppen wrote: »

How did the last cuts in the public sector in 2010 work out for you?

Is that an answer to my question?

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

So we shouldn't cut during downtowns and we certainly couldn't cut or rein in spending during the boom times.

When do we control our debt and spending?

How did the last cuts in the public sector in 2010 work out for you?

[Deleted User]

ParkRunner wrote: »

I think the logic is you don’t cut yourself out of a recession as it just prolongs it. It depends on the wider state of the economy really and how long any recession might last. Needs a bit more analysis than knee jerk reactions as once a pay cut is signaled that’s a whole lot of money that’s going to immediately be banked rather than spent in anticipation

So we shouldn't cut during downtowns and we certainly couldn't cut or rein in spending during the boom times.

When do we control our debt and spending?

ParkRunner

daithi7 wrote: »

Having 'Pubic Pay Cuts' in the title of this thread is disingenuous imho, as none have occurred for close to a ~ decade now!?

Perhaps it should be titled, something more like:

' What Has to Happen to Prevent Senseless Public Pay Rises?'

E.g. Ireland is going into a massive recession, with 25% unemployment, but the public sector are still giving themselves a further 2% pay rise on already hugely over the top & totally out of line salaries & pensions. Jesus wept!!

I think the logic is you don’t cut yourself out of a recession as it just prolongs it. It depends on the wider state of the economy really and how long any recession might last. Needs a bit more analysis than knee jerk reactions as once a pay cut is signaled that’s a whole lot of money that’s going to immediately be banked rather than spent in anticipation

daithi7

Having 'Pubic Pay Cuts' in the title of this thread is disingenuous imho, as none have occurred for close to a ~ decade now!?

Perhaps it should be titled, something more like:

' What Has to Happen to Prevent Senseless Public Pay Rises?'

E.g. Ireland is going into a massive recession, with 25% unemployment, but the public sector are still giving themselves a further 2% pay rise on already hugely over the top & totally out of line salaries & pensions. Jesus wept!!

tayto lover

salonfire wrote: »

No more ridiculous than someone who uses a criminal act to justify a public servant's salary.

Totally appropriate when the criminal act was aimed at him and his family because of the work he does. Your comment was stupid.

[Deleted User]

tayto lover wrote: »

Ridiculous comment.

No more ridiculous than someone who uses a criminal act to justify a public servant's salary.

Larbre34

I think we can move on from that comment.

For countless years, it has suited successive governments to deal with public service pay on a system of analogous grades. Its more efficient for scaling, pensions, seniority etc

A Garda Sergeant with 20 years service is the same as a Staff Nurse with 20 years, is the same as a civil service Exec Officer, an Army Lieutenant etc. (thats an example, i dont know if those are an exact analogy)

It suits the Unions to deal with things that way too, for many reasons. So, you won't see, say, nurses and paramedics pay protected while all other analogous grades take a hit, it would cause far too much strife.

And its also too simplistic to say just medics and Guards worked harder in this thing. Tons of staff in social protection, HSE, HSA, local Councils, the defence forces and civil defence, the enterprise agencies, the state labs, the agri bodies etc, worked weeks worth of unpaid hours to reshape long established systems to cope.

My guess is there won't be a pay hit, especially if H2 2020 shows a significant rebound, more likely a selective moratorium on recruitment to cut costs.

Green Peter

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

Great knowledge of the justice system. Pathetic comment

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

The bitterness towards the people who serve the public is unusually string in these threads.

tayto lover

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

Ridiculous comment.

kingstevii

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

Sounds like he's an excellent guard and the drug dealers really fear him.

Also, its not the guards who put criminals behind bars, it's judges.

[Deleted User]

tayto lover wrote: »

Garda’s house petrol bombed in Dundalk and luckily his pregnant wife and two children escaped when alerted by a neighbour. He’s apparently a drug squad member and has been recently involved in several large seizures.
Tell him his wages are being cut and see what happens. Story on RTÉ awhile ago.

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

[Deleted User]

thomasdylan wrote: »

The public sector isn't one homogenous entity where everyone does the same work and had the same conditions. Not everyone in the public sector is a nurse or guard. Why does a hypothetical levy apply to all the public sector? Why can't it be those on 50k plus? Or those who aren't frontline?

I would guess most PS workers earn less than 50k so I wonder what placing a levy only on those workers above that cut off point would mean.

thomasdylan

blanch152 wrote: »

Current thinking by whom? Deluded journalists?

Think carefully about this. Nurses and doctors have got seriously ill and died while working to save the lives of all of us. How can any politician seriously consider applying a levy to their wages after that, which won't be paid by the private sector whose lives were saved?

The public sector isn't one homogenous entity where everyone does the same work and had the same conditions. Not everyone in the public sector is a nurse or guard. Why does a hypothetical levy apply to all the public sector? Why can't it be those on 50k plus? Or those who aren't frontline?

tayto lover

blanch152 wrote: »

Current thinking by whom? Deluded journalists?

Think carefully about this. Nurses and doctors have got seriously ill and died while working to save the lives of all of us. How can any politician seriously consider applying a levy to their wages after that, which won't be paid by the private sector whose lives were saved?

Garda’s house petrol bombed in Dundalk and luckily his pregnant wife and two children escaped when alerted by a neighbour. He’s apparently a drug squad member and has been recently involved in several large seizures.
Tell him his wages are being cut and see what happens. Story on RTÉ awhile ago.

coolshannagh28

In the present circumstances it would be difficult to justify a cut in PS pay in light of Covid 19 and the sacrifice many made and also taking into account the cost of living particularly in Dublin driven by property prices and rents , however this does not mean that the PS is not over remunerated particularly in comparison with the Private sector . Our MNC tax take masks the structural imbalance in our economy and allows us to get off with much higher compensation than comparable economies .

blanch152

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

When is the cut going to be announced I wonder? They might announce it later in month along with news to reopen the economy to hide it.

Current thinking appears will be a Covid Levy of 12% ( lower than the 20% touted on here ) with plans to be implemented from October2020, reduced to 8% in Oct 2021, 4% Oct 2022.

Seems fair as public sector have been treated very well in recent months with no job losses.

Current thinking by whom? Deluded journalists?

Think carefully about this. Nurses and doctors have got seriously ill and died while working to save the lives of all of us. How can any politician seriously consider applying a levy to their wages after that, which won't be paid by the private sector whose lives were saved?

fliball123

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

I believe the gov did add a term that if there was another financial upheaval as Brexit was in view when they last sat down with the unions that all bets are off and guess what Covid is one hell of a financial upheaval

ParkRunner

Garda lives matter :-)

Beasty

addaword wrote: »

The figures the CSO show for Garda pay and pensions are their figures, not mone. I agree they are very high but they are fact.

Most p.s. posters here complain about the Irish Times, the Indo, the Sunday Times, RTE etc reporting them. It's a business conspiracy against all workers lol.

You have repeatedly told posters to google stuff but have failed to provide any evidence to support your assertions

You have made claims that others have challenged with facts

You have been sanctioned for trolling in this thread and have now been sanctioned for personal abuse

You continue to troll, but that comes to an end now as you are threadbanned

kingstevii

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

There won't be any covid levy. Fact according to Daniel OReilly, ucd.

tayto lover

addaword wrote: »

You must be joking. Public sector pension are going to cost the country something like 120 billion, according to David McWilliams. They are not something the country can afford to keep at current levels, according to Eddie Hobbs.

Hahaaaaa Eddie Hobbs. You’ve just given yourself away with this rubbish post.
Eddie feckin Hobbs haaaaa.

ninebeanrows

Summer2020 wrote: »

“Current thinking” by who exactly?
Produce articles to back up your points otherwise it’s assumed you’re talking out of your hole.

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

ninebeanrows

Summer2020 wrote: »

“Current thinking” by who exactly?
Produce articles to back up your points otherwise it’s assumed you’re talking out of your hole.

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

addaword

talla10 wrote: »

. However the figures you are talking about are hugely inflated.

The figures the CSO show for Garda pay and pensions are their figures, not mone. I agree they are very high but they are fact.

Most p.s. posters here complain about the Irish Times, the Indo, the Sunday Times, RTE etc reporting them. It's a business conspiracy against all workers lol.

kingstevii

addaword wrote: »

I referenced the reports in media such as the Irish Timea, which found that the average Garda pension is worth 1.8 million.
I never said the Gardai are representative of the public service as a whole, do not be extra stupid.

Where did you reference this? I can't find it.
Your one of my favourite posters on boards! The amount of waffle you spout is great! I get a good laugh out of it!

Just for the record, I think all public sector workers should take a 35% pay cut because according to the Sunday business Post, that would be fair.