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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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addaword

kippy wrote: »

They would finance it from current public servants pensions income as they do right now.

So if the state was to give the retirees a million euro each they would finance it from current public servants pension contributions? Lol Rubbish. Current pension contributions go nowhere near financing current expenditures on public service pensions. Not by a long shot.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

I referenced the reports in media such as the Irish Timea, which found that the average Garda pension is worth 1.8 million.
I never said the Gardai are representative of the public service as a whole, do not be extra stupid.

In your last post you suggested that the state paying every member of the public service one million euro I lieu of a pension was daft. I hadn't suggested that the state do that. You chose to mix the Gardai with the rest of the public sector and have chosen to use that report to suggest that ALL public sector employees retire with that kind of a pension pot. Which of course they don't.
If you are so confident of the figures in the Irish times. A state buyout of Garda pensions for a flat fee of a million each appears to be the best course of action even if every retiree from the scheme lives to be a 100 and ended up on COAP for 50 years.
Yet you seem to think taxing of the lump sum is the biggest opportunity for savings
Seems to me to be a lower than junior cert level of maths at play here of a lack of belief in your own figures

kippy

addaword wrote: »

So if the state was to give the retirees a million euro each they would finance it from current public servants pension contributions? Lol Rubbish. Current pension contributions go nowhere near financing current expenditures on public service pensions. Not by a long shot.

When you add in the employer contribution and PRSI they are about at parity currently..this is due to change before 2025.
Either way, it's a strawman. You are using to deflect from your less than poor grasp of numbers.

And again to be clear. We are talking about Garda pensions here. Not general public service pensions.

addaword

kippy wrote: »

Yet you seem to think taxing of the lump sum is the biggest opportunity for savings

It will likely happen as nobody can accuse the government of being anti public sector if that happens. Tax all lump sum pension payments across both sectors.

It would be difficult for the government to reduce public service pensions, even those on public service pensions of 100k a year, as some would argue they are breaking a contract. Plus they will be on golden pensions themselves before too long..

van_beano

Google searched - minimum retirement age for Gardaí is 55 now and not 50. Most might stay on until 60 anyways when they are forced to retire due to kids still in education and mortgage commitments.

The lump sum for a regular Garda is about €80k as opposed to €102k. Those higher figures may be for the likes of Superintendents and above.

Gardaí do not get a contributory old age pension even though they pay the same PRSI contributions as private workers. A Garda's weekly pension would be around €500 per week, with the contributory part making up some of this. If a fit and able retired Garda wishes to take up employment in the private sector again they would lose the contributory part of the pension, roughly €230. So, in essence, Gardaí are paying 17% for a €270 per week pension and an €80k lump sum.

addaword

van_beano wrote: »

The lump sum for a regular Garda is about €80k as opposed to €102k. Those higher figures may be for the likes of Superintendents and above.

.

"may be" is not good enough and is incorrect. The actual average figure of the tax free lump sum for Gardai retiring was found to be 102k. The likes of Superintendents and above retired with a higher lump sum, tax free. The average annual pension is close to 35k a year, which is taxable.

talla10

addaword wrote: »

"may be" is not good enough and is incorrect. The actual average figure of the tax free lump sum for Gardai retiring was found to be 102k. The likes of Superintendents and above retired with a higher lump sum, tax free. The average annual pension is close to 35k a year, which is taxable.

No it isn't.

And you know full well 'average' simply means the median pension.
I detailed above how Garda pensions are calculated and you have chosen to ignore my post preferring instead to spread disinformation

addaword

talla10 wrote: »

No it isn't.

Yes it is. The exact figures were quoted earlier. You can look at the articles in the media too.

talla10

addaword wrote: »

Yes it is. The exact figures were quoted earlier. You can look at the articles in the media too.

I can't seem to find them. Unless you mean the Irish Times article which quotes the median figure.

I explained in previous posts how Garda pensions are calculated and if you look into it you will find I am correct. However the figures you are talking about are hugely inflated.

Treppen

addaword wrote: »

You must be joking. Public sector pension are going to cost the country something like 120 billion, according to David McWilliams. They are not something the country can afford to keep at current levels, according to Eddie Hobbs.

The same Eddie Hobbs who bought property in Detroit? Despite it being a joke on the Simpsons.

kingstevii

addaword wrote: »

I referenced the reports in media such as the Irish Timea, which found that the average Garda pension is worth 1.8 million.
I never said the Gardai are representative of the public service as a whole, do not be extra stupid.

Where did you reference this? I can't find it.
Your one of my favourite posters on boards! The amount of waffle you spout is great! I get a good laugh out of it!

Just for the record, I think all public sector workers should take a 35% pay cut because according to the Sunday business Post, that would be fair.

addaword

talla10 wrote: »

. However the figures you are talking about are hugely inflated.

The figures the CSO show for Garda pay and pensions are their figures, not mone. I agree they are very high but they are fact.

Most p.s. posters here complain about the Irish Times, the Indo, the Sunday Times, RTE etc reporting them. It's a business conspiracy against all workers lol.

ninebeanrows

Summer2020 wrote: »

“Current thinking” by who exactly?
Produce articles to back up your points otherwise it’s assumed you’re talking out of your hole.

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

ninebeanrows

Summer2020 wrote: »

“Current thinking” by who exactly?
Produce articles to back up your points otherwise it’s assumed you’re talking out of your hole.

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

tayto lover

addaword wrote: »

You must be joking. Public sector pension are going to cost the country something like 120 billion, according to David McWilliams. They are not something the country can afford to keep at current levels, according to Eddie Hobbs.

Hahaaaaa Eddie Hobbs. You’ve just given yourself away with this rubbish post.
Eddie feckin Hobbs haaaaa.

kingstevii

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

There won't be any covid levy. Fact according to Daniel OReilly, ucd.

Beasty

addaword wrote: »

The figures the CSO show for Garda pay and pensions are their figures, not mone. I agree they are very high but they are fact.

Most p.s. posters here complain about the Irish Times, the Indo, the Sunday Times, RTE etc reporting them. It's a business conspiracy against all workers lol.

You have repeatedly told posters to google stuff but have failed to provide any evidence to support your assertions

You have made claims that others have challenged with facts

You have been sanctioned for trolling in this thread and have now been sanctioned for personal abuse

You continue to troll, but that comes to an end now as you are threadbanned

ParkRunner

Garda lives matter :-)

fliball123

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the 2% cross PS increase has to go ahead as legally done.

The Covid Levy I allude to would likely only be applied for earnings in excess of 34,500€

I believe the gov did add a term that if there was another financial upheaval as Brexit was in view when they last sat down with the unions that all bets are off and guess what Covid is one hell of a financial upheaval

blanch152

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

When is the cut going to be announced I wonder? They might announce it later in month along with news to reopen the economy to hide it.

Current thinking appears will be a Covid Levy of 12% ( lower than the 20% touted on here ) with plans to be implemented from October2020, reduced to 8% in Oct 2021, 4% Oct 2022.

Seems fair as public sector have been treated very well in recent months with no job losses.

Current thinking by whom? Deluded journalists?

Think carefully about this. Nurses and doctors have got seriously ill and died while working to save the lives of all of us. How can any politician seriously consider applying a levy to their wages after that, which won't be paid by the private sector whose lives were saved?

coolshannagh28

In the present circumstances it would be difficult to justify a cut in PS pay in light of Covid 19 and the sacrifice many made and also taking into account the cost of living particularly in Dublin driven by property prices and rents , however this does not mean that the PS is not over remunerated particularly in comparison with the Private sector . Our MNC tax take masks the structural imbalance in our economy and allows us to get off with much higher compensation than comparable economies .

tayto lover

blanch152 wrote: »

Current thinking by whom? Deluded journalists?

Think carefully about this. Nurses and doctors have got seriously ill and died while working to save the lives of all of us. How can any politician seriously consider applying a levy to their wages after that, which won't be paid by the private sector whose lives were saved?

Garda’s house petrol bombed in Dundalk and luckily his pregnant wife and two children escaped when alerted by a neighbour. He’s apparently a drug squad member and has been recently involved in several large seizures.
Tell him his wages are being cut and see what happens. Story on RTÉ awhile ago.

thomasdylan

blanch152 wrote: »

Current thinking by whom? Deluded journalists?

Think carefully about this. Nurses and doctors have got seriously ill and died while working to save the lives of all of us. How can any politician seriously consider applying a levy to their wages after that, which won't be paid by the private sector whose lives were saved?

The public sector isn't one homogenous entity where everyone does the same work and had the same conditions. Not everyone in the public sector is a nurse or guard. Why does a hypothetical levy apply to all the public sector? Why can't it be those on 50k plus? Or those who aren't frontline?

[Deleted User]

thomasdylan wrote: »

The public sector isn't one homogenous entity where everyone does the same work and had the same conditions. Not everyone in the public sector is a nurse or guard. Why does a hypothetical levy apply to all the public sector? Why can't it be those on 50k plus? Or those who aren't frontline?

I would guess most PS workers earn less than 50k so I wonder what placing a levy only on those workers above that cut off point would mean.

[Deleted User]

tayto lover wrote: »

Garda’s house petrol bombed in Dundalk and luckily his pregnant wife and two children escaped when alerted by a neighbour. He’s apparently a drug squad member and has been recently involved in several large seizures.
Tell him his wages are being cut and see what happens. Story on RTÉ awhile ago.

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

kingstevii

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

Sounds like he's an excellent guard and the drug dealers really fear him.

Also, its not the guards who put criminals behind bars, it's judges.

tayto lover

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

Ridiculous comment.

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

The bitterness towards the people who serve the public is unusually string in these threads.

Green Peter

salonfire wrote: »

Sounds like he's not a very good guard if the drug dealers who did it were not already behind bars.

Great knowledge of the justice system. Pathetic comment

Larbre34

I think we can move on from that comment.

For countless years, it has suited successive governments to deal with public service pay on a system of analogous grades. Its more efficient for scaling, pensions, seniority etc

A Garda Sergeant with 20 years service is the same as a Staff Nurse with 20 years, is the same as a civil service Exec Officer, an Army Lieutenant etc. (thats an example, i dont know if those are an exact analogy)

It suits the Unions to deal with things that way too, for many reasons. So, you won't see, say, nurses and paramedics pay protected while all other analogous grades take a hit, it would cause far too much strife.

And its also too simplistic to say just medics and Guards worked harder in this thing. Tons of staff in social protection, HSE, HSA, local Councils, the defence forces and civil defence, the enterprise agencies, the state labs, the agri bodies etc, worked weeks worth of unpaid hours to reshape long established systems to cope.

My guess is there won't be a pay hit, especially if H2 2020 shows a significant rebound, more likely a selective moratorium on recruitment to cut costs.