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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

For a package worth 100k a year for 30 years, before you retire with a tax free 102k and a golden pension? You would not settle for.

Why didnt you become a Guard.

addaword

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why didnt you become a Guard.

The whole country could not become Gardai, even though all you needed was a pass leaving cert or not much more. Ever look at communist states where everyone was paid by the government?

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

The whole country could not become Gardai, even though all you needed was a pass leaving cert or not much more. Ever look at communist states where everyone was paid by the government?

You wouldn't be able for the guards.

ParkRunner

Garda pensions are expensive but numbers are quite small. The bigger threat to financial stability is those hundreds of thousands who choose not to take out a pension and will be totally reliant on the state to support them in later years.

addaword

ParkRunner wrote: »

Garda pensions are expensive but numbers are quite small. .

You must be joking. Public sector pension are going to cost the country something like 120 billion, according to David McWilliams. They are not something the country can afford to keep at current levels, according to Eddie Hobbs.

tayto lover

addaword wrote: »

You must be joking. Public sector pension are going to cost the country something like 120 billion, according to David McWilliams. They are not something the country can afford to keep at current levels, according to Eddie Hobbs.

I really think you should emigrate. You sound very agitated by the pay and conditions of others yet you had the choice and chose not or were refused entry to join them.

ninebeanrows

When is the cut going to be announced I wonder? They might announce it later in month along with news to reopen the economy to hide it.

Current thinking appears will be a Covid Levy of 12% ( lower than the 20% touted on here ) with plans to be implemented from October2020, reduced to 8% in Oct 2021, 4% Oct 2022.

Seems fair as public sector have been treated very well in recent months with no job losses.

ParkRunner

addaword wrote: »

You must be joking. Public sector pension are going to cost the country something like 120 billion, according to David McWilliams. They are not something the country can afford to keep at current levels, according to Eddie Hobbs.

Career averaging, increased pension contributions & rising retirement age. Public sector pensions are not as valuable as they were and are costing public servants additional contributions. Things are changing, your sources are based on outdated scenarios

croker99

addaword wrote: »

For a package worth 100k a year for 30 years, before you retire with a tax free 102k and a golden pension? You would not settle for that? Lucky you.

I would not be the prime Minister of Spain for 72k a year, not with the buck stopping at me and thousands of citizens dying.

Correct, I wouldn't, because it's not the money it's the job that has me saying that. And that's why the terms of employment are that attractive, to try and entice people to do it.

Also stop counting things twice, you can't bump the salary up from 60k or whatever to 100k, to reflect the equivalent salary required to pay for the pension, and then when listing off the benefits you list the 100k AND golden pension... That's double counting dude.

Mr Meanor

addaword wrote: »

You must be joking. Public sector pension are going to cost the country something like 120 billion, according to David McWilliams. They are not something the country can afford to keep at current levels, according to Eddie Hobbs.

See you making the your blanket statements again, here and on other threads.
Where are your statistical facts from various sources to back up your claims so we can have a genuine discussion with you regarding your obsession with lowering ordinary peoples wages?

Formerly you were saying check facts with the Independent or the Irish Times the most business biased rags on the Island.
Now it's these two you cite with no references again
David McWilliams!
Eddie Hobbs!!!!!!
The two most business biased individuals you could get, there is no room for the ordinary working person from any of this lot and a particular hatred for the public service.
This makes you one of their cheerleaders and someone to be viewed with suspicion and your statements taken for what they are, shill posts.

Sarn

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

When is the cut going to be announced I wonder? They might announce it later in month along with news to reopen the economy to hide it.

Current thinking appears will be a Covid Levy of 12% ( lower than the 20% touted on here ) with plans to be implemented from October2020, reduced to 8% in Oct 2021, 4% Oct 2022.

Seems fair as public sector have been treated very well in recent months with no job losses.

You must have missed where the 2% pay restoration later in the year has been confirmed.

addaword

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

When is the cut going to be announced I wonder? They might announce it later in month along with news to reopen the economy to hide it.

Current thinking appears will be a Covid Levy of 12% ( lower than the 20% touted on here ) with plans to be implemented from October2020, reduced to 8% in Oct 2021, 4% Oct 2022.

Seems fair as public sector have been treated very well in recent months with no job losses.

There was an economist on the radio recently too saying that as the country is now so much in debt and borrowing so much because of covit, it is likely all the lump sum pension payments people get when they retire ( equal to 18 months salary) will be taxed. Seems only fair. It will apply to people in the private sector as well as public sector who get lump sum pension payments.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

There was an economist on the radio recently too saying that as the country is now so much in debt and borrowing so much because of covit, it is likely all the lump sum pension payments people get when they retire ( equal to 18 months salary) will be taxed. Seems only fair. It will apply to people in the private sector as well as public sector who get lump sum pension payments.

What about offering Gardai a once off payment of 1 million euros at retirement in lieu of any pension?

Summer2020

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

When is the cut going to be announced I wonder? They might announce it later in month along with news to reopen the economy to hide it.

Current thinking appears will be a Covid Levy of 12% ( lower than the 20% touted on here ) with plans to be implemented from October2020, reduced to 8% in Oct 2021, 4% Oct 2022.

Seems fair as public sector have been treated very well in recent months with no job losses.

“Current thinking” by who exactly?
Produce articles to back up your points otherwise it’s assumed you’re talking out of your hole.

addaword

kippy wrote: »

What about offering Gardai a once off payment of 1 million euros at retirement in lieu of any pension?

Some would live for another 40 or 50 years and run out of money / be sucking off the state again before they expire.

Do you agree the one off gratuity they get on retirement now should be taxed?

Summer2020

addaword wrote: »

Some would live for another 40 or 50 years and run out of money / be sucking off the state again before they expire.

You seem very bitter about Gardai in particular. Did your wife cheat on you with a Garda or something?

kippy

addaword wrote: »

Some would live for another 40 or 50 years and run out of money / be sucking off the state again before they expire.

Whats your point?
Aren't you trying to save the state money?

addaword

Summer2020 wrote: »

You seem very bitter about Gardai in particular. Did your wife cheat on you with a Garda or something?

It was kippy who last mentioned Gardai, I was talking about public servants.

kippy

You have been on about Gardai as if their terms and conditions are the norm in the public service.
They are not

addaword

kippy wrote: »

Whats your point?
Aren't you trying to save the state money?

Yes, but giving them a million and then a few years later having to give them a pension and medical card for another 40 or 50 years may not save the state money.

Now answer the question, should'nt they have to pay tax on their lump sum gratuity of 102,000 ?

kippy

addaword wrote: »

Some would live for another 40 or 50 years and run out of money / be sucking off the state again before they expire.

Do you agree the one off gratuity they get on retirement now should be taxed?

I think the state would save more money, based on your own figures, by paying a retiring garda 1 million euros on retirement in lieu of a pensions.
800 k saved straight away versus 40 or 50k on taxing a lump sum.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

Yes, but giving them a million and then a few years later having to give them a pension and medical card for another 40 or 50 years may not save the state money.

Now answer the question, should'nt they have to pay tax on their lump sum gratuity of 102,000 ?

Stop their entitlement to a state pension. Job done. State saves the best part of a million euro. Versus 40 odd k.
I know if I was wanting to save money and based on your own figures what's the best value for the state.

addaword

kippy wrote: »

I think the state would save more money, based on your own figures, by paying a retiring garda 1 million euros on retirement in lieu of a pensions.
800 k saved straight away versus 40 or 50k on taxing a lump sum.

And what about the cop who gambles, drinks and loses the million in a year, easily enough done. Would the state not have to support him with a pension and medical card for the rest of his life, possibly another 50 years? They could not see him homeless and starving on O'Connell bridge.

You have totally lost the plot if you think the state should give every retiring public servant a million euro to save some money.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

And what about the cop who gambles, drinks and loses the million in a year, easily enough done. Would the state not have to support him with a pension and medical card for the rest of his life, possibly another 50 years? They could not see him homeless and starving on O'Connell bridge.

Ok.
I'll work with you on this. Let's drop them back to the regular state pension after year one. 50 years on the state pension is max 750k (absolutely max)
Still an overall saving of 50k for the state. Which is more than taxing the lump-sum will save.
This assumes every retiring Garda retires at 50 and lives to be 100........savings are greater if they don't live that long....

addaword

kippy wrote: »

Ok.
I'll work with you on this. Let's drop them back to the regular state pension after year one. 50 years on the state pension is max 750k (absolutely max)
Still an overall saving of 50k for the state. Which is more than taxing the lump-sum will save.
This assumes every retiring Garda retires at 50 and lives to be 100........savings are greater if they don't live that long....

You forget about the interest payments on the million euro the state would have to borrow to give to the retiring public servant.

You also forget the pension transfers to spouse on death.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

You forget about the interest payments on the million euro the state would have to borrow to give to the retiring public servant.

They would finance it from current public servants pensions income as they do right now.
Any why bring interest payments into it?
Do you include interest payments calculations on other COAP and OAP pension payments?

kippy

addaword wrote: »

You forget about the interest payments on the million euro the state would have to borrow to give to the retiring public servant.

You also forget the pension transfers to spouse on death.

I don't forget anything to be honest.
You don't seem to be so certain of your figures is what I am seeing here.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

And what about the cop who gambles, drinks and loses the million in a year, easily enough done. Would the state not have to support him with a pension and medical card for the rest of his life, possibly another 50 years? They could not see him homeless and starving on O'Connell bridge.

You have totally lost the plot if you think the state should give every retiring public servant a million euro to save some money.

Again:
You are stating as fact that the Gardai are representative of the public service as a whole with respect to their pension entitlements.
They are not.
You are stating that Garda pensions cost the state 1.8 million each.
My solution to save the state money is to pay each Garda 1 million retirement I lieu of any pension entitlements and leave it at that. Saving the state 800 k.
You continue to jump through hoops denying that this is a good idea. I've no idea why to be honest.

Speaking of reality, you were the one earlier in these thread stating as fact that public servants don't pay income tax.
You e absolutely no basis for any of your arguments if that is your starting point.

talla10

Which Garda pension pays €1.8 million? The one for pre '95 members, post '95 or post '13?

Which rank qualifies for this vast pension or do they all?
How much overtime during their best three years is required to 'bump' up this figure?

With all these pensions it depends on the length of service, overtime during 'best' 3 of their last 10 years (unless on salary which is Superintendent rank or higher) with pre '95 and then of course the final rank they retire at and how long they're been in that rank.

Post '95 members (which no one has retired at yet) are calculated differently and will cost less to the state.

Post 13 members will be very different because the members earnings over their entire career will affect their pension entitlements depending on their rank, service etc.

At the moment Gardaí contribute about 17% to their pension on weekly, mandatory basis. Overtime Gardaí work is also not pensionable but their pension contributions are deducted at source.

addaword

kippy wrote: »

Again:
You are stating as fact that the Gardai are representative of the public service as a whole with respect to their pension entitlements.
They are not.
You are stating that Garda pensions cost the state 1.8 million each.

I referenced the reports in media such as the Irish Timea, which found that the average Garda pension is worth 1.8 million.
I never said the Gardai are representative of the public service as a whole, do not be extra stupid.