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Public service pay cut?

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Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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byhookorbycrook

addaword wrote: »

Oh dear, oh dear, it was the Irish Times and Irish independent and RTE who reported what the average Garda pension is worth.

I do not know any architects or solicitors who left school in 1990 and who can retire with such a pension pot. I would say most private sector people in that age group have loans on their houses and cars, and cannot afford to fund a pension worth 1.8 million and retire at 49 or 50.

Public sector worker here , have being forced to pay into my pension since I was 20. To

addaword

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Public sector worker here , have being forced to pay into my pension since I was 20. To

The average Garda retiring now aged 49 or 50 on full pension who was "forced" to pay in to his pension since he left school with a pass leaving cert now has a pension worth 1.8 million, according to the media. No way did it cost him 1.8 million, so you are very lucky.

jay0109

addaword wrote: »

The average Garda retiring now aged 49 or 50 on full pension who was "forced" to pay in to his pension since he left school with a pass leaving cert now has a pension worth 1.8 million, according to the media. No way did it cost him 1.8 million, so you are very lucky.

You should have joined the Guards

beggars_bush

addaword wrote: »

The average Garda retiring now aged 49 or 50 on full pension who was "forced" to pay in to his pension since he left school with a pass leaving cert now has a pension worth 1.8 million, according to the media. No way did it cost him 1.8 million, so you are very lucky.

two things here
how long do you have to live to see that 1.8 million?
the retired person paid tax all their lives and will continue to pay taxes into their retirement, and then their estate will pay more taxes on their death

addaword

beggars_bush wrote: »

two things here
how long do you have to live to see that 1.8 million?
the retired person paid tax all their lives and will continue to pay taxes into their retirement, and then their estate will pay more taxes on their death

The lump sum retirement gratuity of approx €100,000 the Garda gets from the government is tax free.

beggars_bush

addaword wrote: »

The retirement gratuity of approx 100,000 from the government is tax free.

as it is in the whole public sector.
but they'll pay tax on that if they spend it on a car, house, food, clothes, put it into savings, investment product

addaword

beggars_bush wrote: »

as it is in the whole public sector.
but they'll pay tax on that if they spend it on a car, house, food, clothes, put it into savings, investment product

Not on food. There is no vat on spuds or meat or bread.

Of course there is tax on cars, we all have to pay that.

Treppen

addaword wrote: »

Oh dear, oh dear, it was the Irish Times and Irish independent and RTE who reported what the average Garda pension is worth.

I do not know any architects or solicitors who left school in 1990 and who can retire with such a pension pot. I would say most private sector people in that age group have loans on their houses and cars, and cannot afford to fund a pension worth 1.8 million and retire at 49 or 50.

:pac: Those solicitors you know mustn't be very successful. 40 years in those professions and they keep to the straight and narrow (like the guards I know) They should really have 1.8mill pension no bother.
I'd gladly knock off ten years service for guards compared to architects who go out and risk their lives with scumbags from time to time.

At the end of the day where will this supposed 1.8 million money go.... Back into the economy. Multiplier effect and all that.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

The average Garda retiring now aged 49 or 50 on full pension who was "forced" to pay in to his pension since he left school with a pass leaving cert now has a pension worth 1.8 million, according to the media. No way did it cost him 1.8 million, so you are very lucky.

I don't get your point?
Can you outline it again....
That the pensions valued at 1.8 million didn't cost the pensioner that amount?
Or that the state shouldn't fund such pensions?
What is an adequate pension for the state to fund,in your own opinion?
How do you suggest the state save money on Garda pensions? Would be it worth the state paying the retiring Garda a tax free lump sum of 1 million euro instead and nothing else? That would be a massive saving for the state.

Treppen

addaword wrote: »

Not on food. There is no vat on spuds or meat or bread.

Of course there is tax on cars, we all have to pay that.

Well .... 100% of public sector have to pay anyway that's for sure.

https://www.iconaccounting.ie/blog/a-guide-to-purchasing-a-vehicle-through-your-limited-company

addaword

Treppen wrote: »

:pac: Those solicitors you know mustn't be very successful. .

30 years after doing the leaving cert and no, the vast majority of private sector workers as far as I know do not retire with a pension pot worth 1,800,000, like the average Garda does.

addaword

Treppen wrote: »

:
At the end of the day where will this supposed 1.8 million money go.... Back into the economy. Multiplier effect and all that.

Why cannot we all get 1.8 million from the taxpayer and get holiday homes in Spain and play golf every day in our fifties?

kippy

addaword wrote: »

30 years after doing the leaving cert and no, the vast majority of private sector workers as far as I know do not retire with a pension pot worth 1,800,000, like the average Garda does.

The vast majority of public sector workers don't retire with a pensions pot of 1.8 million euros either.

Some private sector workers, like some public sector workers retire with large pension pots. Welcome to the world.
Care to address my queries in my previous post?

addaword

kippy wrote: »

The vast majority of public sector workers don't retire with a pensions pot of 1.8 million euros either.

The average Garda does, according to the media, after only 30 years. How many people in the private sector get to do that, unless they take extraordinary risks and work extremely hard and / or very lucky. 0.1% of the 2 million?

killbillvol2

addaword wrote: »

You do not understand where the average pension pot of 1.8 million for each retiring Garda comes from.

Again I ask you, why should the taxpayer fund that average pension pot for every retiring Garda? Let them buy it themselves. The average taxpayer paying hard earned money to the government can not afford or does not get such a pension.

I really don't know why I'm bothering because nothing seems to sink in with you.

But, where do you get 1.8 million?

Let's say every garda retired with a pension of €40,000 (which they don't but I'm going to indulge you). That means, to create this 'average pension pot' that you're talking about, they would ALL have to live for another 45 years.

Either explain the maths or shut up about it.

addaword

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I really don't know why I'm bothering because nothing seems to sink in with you.

But, where do you get 1.8 million?

Read the Irish Times and Irish Independent reports for yourself. And the Sunday Times and RTE.
Do not forget the 18 months tax free lump sum they get on retirement too.
Do not forget if the Garda dies when retired, his / her spouse gets full Garda pension.

Mr Meanor

addaword wrote: »

The average Garda does, according to the media, after only 30 years. How many people in the private sector get to do that, unless they take extraordinary risks and work extremely hard and / or very lucky. 0.1% of the 2 million?

You're beginning to sound like a Shill or a blogger mouth piece for the Independent or the Times, none of whom are friends of either the public or private sector only the business sector who want all wages for any profession put down into the ground.

Can we have sources for all these blanket statements you're making, and not from the aforementioned for reasons I've just stated.

killbillvol2

addaword wrote: »

Read the Irish Times and Irish Independent reports for yourself. And the Sunday Times and RTE.
Do not forget the 18 months tax free lump sum they get on retirement too.
Do not forget if the Garda dies when retired, his / her spouse gets full Garda pension.

I said explain the maths. Can you?

addaword

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I said explain the maths. Can you?

I can understand it, yes, having read reports in various media publications over the years, not just the I. T. and Indo. You should educate yourself more.

killbillvol2

addaword wrote: »

I can understand it, yes, having read reports in various media publications over the years, not just the I. T. and Indo. You should educate yourself more.

So you can't explain the maths. It's pretty simple multiplicstion.

Go on, show us how *all* Gardai live longer than the rest of the population.

Or am I wrong? Maybe only a quarter of them live for 45 years. Does that mean their pension pot is actually over 3 million to even out the average?

addaword

killbillvol2 wrote: »

So you can't explain the maths.

Go on, show us how *all* Gardai live longer than the rest of the population.

I never said Gardai live longer than the rest of the population. If you want the maths explained to you, google is your friend.

killbillvol2

addaword wrote: »

I never said Gardai live longer than the rest of the population. If you want the maths explained to you, google is your friend.

What's 1.8 million divided by 40,000?

addaword

killbillvol2 wrote: »

What's 1.8 million divided by 40,000?

The tax free lump sum on retirement they get is more like 100k than 40k.

The pension calculations were confirmed by by the Association of Pension Trustees of Ireland (APTI). Google is your friend.

killbillvol2

addaword wrote: »

The tax free lump sum on retirement they get is more like 100k than 40k.

So they only have to live for 43 years and 6 months?

More like 100k? How much is it exactly? And how much is their annual pension? And how does that become 1.8 million?

I'm joking. I know you haven't a clue.

I'll leave you with a bit of googling for yourself. Proverbs 26:4. And a master of logic like yourself should be able to find Mark Twain's twist on it.

Vizzy

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Proverbs 26:4. And .....Mark Twain's twist on it.

Very good :cool:

addaword

killbillvol2 wrote: »

More like 100k? How much is it exactly?

Yep. Actually €102k. A lot more than 40k anyway.. And according to the Irish Examiner last year, the top 20 lump sum recipients shared pension lump sum payments of over €3m with four receiving sums between €170,000; eight receiving lump sums between €140,000 and €150,000 and seven receiving payments between €135,000 and €140,000.

You better put the Examiner along with the Sunday Times and the Indo and the Irish Times and RTE in your big bad business conspiracy theory.

FGR

addaword wrote: »

Do not forget if the Garda dies when retired, his / her spouse gets full Garda pension.

Additional contributions are made to this fund by the AGS member throughout their service to allow for a Widows Pension which is -half- the rate of the retired member's pension.

I've read this thread and I can't help but wonder what AGS did to you to warrant such hatred towards their terms and conditions.

Any guard who has joined before 2004 can retire at 30 years service at the minimum age of 50 - any guard who joined after 2004 can retire at 30 years service at the minimum age of 55.

The reasons for the expedited pension mainly revolve around the conditions that are faced by most guards throughout their service - shift work, harsh environments, confrontation, assault, injuries and illness associated with the work they do. Add to that the stress from the legal responsibility associated with complex investigations associated with their day to day work.

The Defence Forces have expedited pensions for similar (and other) reasons too.

Addaword - I don't know if this has been asked yet - but what has AGS done to you? What do you think are appropriate conditions for police officers?

Do you want guards to serve until they're 68 ? Unreasonable, imo.

addaword

FGR wrote: »

Do you want guards to serve until they're 68 ? Unreasonable, imo.

Why should other equally qualified people have to work until 67, for a much lower pension, when Gardai can retire at 50? There are plenty of desk jobs they could do in their fifties or early sixties.

As reported in the Examiner in 2016 "Gardaí are retiring with average lump sums of €100,000 on top of their pensions, which shows taxpayers are paying “over the odds” to fund generous packages.

That’s the view of the chief executive of ISME, Mark Fielding, after it emerged that last year 238 retiring members of the force shared a pension bonanza of €24.1m, or an average of €101,654 each." Tax free too, in addition to their full pension.

Also, remember the report by former chairman of the Labour Court John Horgan 4 years ago which said that industrial relations in An Garda Síochána is “effectively broken”, and significant reforms are needed.

The report came just weeks after gardaí went to the brink of an unprecedented strike in a bid to improve their pay and conditions.

The report said that the average pay for gardaí across the force last year was €63,450.

However it also said if the value of the cost of the provision of pensions was taken into account, total remuneration for gardaí would be in excess of €100,000.

Can the country afford that? I have great respect for the work the Gardai do, but the Prime Minister of Spain is on call 24/7 and only earns 72k per year.

croker99

Put it this way, I still wouldn't be a guard for that money.

addaword

croker99 wrote: »

Put it this way, I still wouldn't be a guard for that money.

For a package worth 100k a year for 30 years, before you retire with a tax free 102k and a golden pension? You would not settle for that? Lucky you.

I would not be the prime Minister of Spain for 72k a year, not with the buck stopping at me and thousands of citizens dying.