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Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

Keano

Time to discuss what golf is going to look like for next year, maybe more, who knows.

What is your club doing? What would you like to see happen?

Mod note: we have done to death the restrictions(5k jumping to 20k in June) so this is not a thread for discussing that topic, take it to COVID-19 forum

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BoldReason

To answer the query about horse racing earlier. HRI receives its guidance and funding from the department of agriculture and not sport Ireland.

It was originally scheduled to return on June 28th however they requested that it be considered that the date be move forward to an earlier date as it is likely to be easy to practice social Distancing there. Also that there are 30k+ working in the industry was a considering factor as well as the direct affect no flat racing would have on the breeding industry.

twounderpar

I'm playing in a fourball tomorrow and I'll observe all guidelines as laid out by GUI and my club. I just wonder in what way would having
a scorecard in my back pocket create a risk to the spreading of the virus.

This expert group is made up of 12 people including one representative from FAI, IRFU and GAA.

They also decided at the end of Phase One that driving ranges were indoor facilities. Did they ever change their mind on that decision
because it seems all driving ranges opened their doors anyway.

prawnsambo

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Statement here says
“An important point is that the Expert Group advises against any competitive sport in Phase 2. That is a general point across all sports and not directed at golf specifically although relevant to your plans. Fairness and consistency of the application of advice across all sport is an important element of the mandate of the Expert Group."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if it's just advice then it doesn't necessarily have to be followed right? I guess the GUI weren't willing to go against it for fear of their funding being cut

You're never going to see these statements saying that it's an order. And it's not set in legislation, so it's not law either. But advice is about as strong as it gets.

If I said clubs can go ahead ad ignore it if they like it's only advice, would you?

Golfhead65

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Statement here says
“An important point is that the Expert Group advises against any competitive sport in Phase 2. That is a general point across all sports and not directed at golf specifically although relevant to your plans. Fairness and consistency of the application of advice across all sport is an important element of the mandate of the Expert Group."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if it's just advice then it doesn't necessarily have to be followed right? I guess the GUI weren't willing to go against it for fear of their funding being cut

As I said before no balls and ruderless

youcancallmeal

twounderpar wrote: »

In the statement it says the Expert Group decided that competitions across all team and individual sports would not be permitted in
Phase 2.
Is horse racing not a competitive sport.

Anyway I'm quite calm about the situation. All I'm trying to do is attempting to tease out the logic behind the decision.

Statement here says
“An important point is that the Expert Group advises against any competitive sport in Phase 2. That is a general point across all sports and not directed at golf specifically although relevant to your plans. Fairness and consistency of the application of advice across all sport is an important element of the mandate of the Expert Group."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if it's just advice then it doesn't necessarily have to be followed right? I guess the GUI weren't willing to go against it for fear of their funding being cut

twounderpar

PARlance wrote: »

My horses never get within 2m of the winner anyway!

The old jokes are the best!

PARlance

twounderpar wrote: »

In the statement it says the Expert Group decided that competitions across all team and individual sports would not be permitted in
Phase 2.
Is horse racing not a competitive sport.

Anyway I'm quite calm about the situation. All I'm trying to do is attempting to tease out the logic behind the decision.

My horses never get within 2m of the winner anyway!

twounderpar

In the statement it says the Expert Group decided that competitions across all team and individual sports would not be permitted in
Phase 2.
Is horse racing not a competitive sport.

Anyway I'm quite calm about the situation. All I'm trying to do is attempting to tease out the logic behind the decision.

Kingswood Rover

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Yes but golf is governed from the republic so if it's open up there it should be open down here, I don't begrudge them but it's an absolute joke and again a lack of balls from those in charge.

What the GUI should have sway over regional health policy in the UK, yep your right those gelded GUI FECKERS

FixdePitchmark

twounderpar wrote: »

From Monday they are allowing more golfers to play together, that is 4 instead of 3. They see no problem with spreading the virus in that
situation. Yet running a competition is seen to be a threat. Why?

The GUI have certainly fallen asleep at the wheel on this one.

Do people need to calm down a bit about competitions ?

It is all positive that we are back to some form of golf and further opening up.

Yes , I miss competitions and all that - but we are still effectively in control measures - with over 70 cases in one day a few days ago and deaths still present. Things are going in the right direction - but a long long way to go. Months.

At the end of the day - competitions involve a need to not social distance - I haven't come across any convincing way this can be done with some form of verbal agreement / protocol / non exchanging of cards.

The technological solutions are the way to go - but we simply do not have time to implement them quick enough.

I'm still counting my lucky stars we can play golf.

twounderpar

From Monday they are allowing more golfers to play together, that is 4 instead of 3. They see no problem with spreading the virus in that
situation. Yet running a competition is seen to be a threat. Why?

The GUI have certainly fallen asleep at the wheel on this one.

CalamariFritti

It was a lot of bull yesterday and it still is today. My club is now looking for a booking few for casual rounds for the next 3 weeks in order make up for the competition shortfall. While the members have accepted that we're going to be 'down' two months on our annual golf vs membership fees we now have to make additional payments on top of it. Not going down well at all. A lot of disgruntled members and clubs. The GUI has let everyone down with this and no matter what sort of construed justification they come out with it remains a poor decision.

prawnsambo

GolfNut33 wrote: »

A lot of this is down to clubs/organisations afraid to question or go against Sport Ireland because they hand out the grants and fear not getting any future cash.

And the corollary to that is that it's not an idle threat. And when you think about that...

GolfNut33

A lot of this is down to clubs/organisations afraid to question or go against Sport Ireland because they hand out the grants and fear not getting any future cash.

prawnsambo

twounderpar wrote: »

I still can't figure out why fourballs are allowed from Monday but internal golf competitions are not. Was this decision based on
scientific,medical or sporting grounds. I'd just like to know,that's all. The long statement from GUI does not address this.

A few weeks ago,Labour T.D. Alan Kelly sought more transparency from those making decisions. This is a classic case of lack of
transparency or explanation regarding this decision. It seems to me that the GUI accepted it without too much debate.

It's literally as I stated above. Sport Ireland decided that they can't have other sports annoying them about the return of competitive sports because some sports have it. So all (bar horse-racing who have too much political and economic clout) are excluded together. There have been a lot of complaints about the inability to train or compete from many of the sports NGBs lately.

twounderpar

I still can't figure out why fourballs are allowed from Monday but internal golf competitions are not. Was this decision based on
scientific,medical or sporting grounds. I'd just like to know,that's all. The long statement from GUI does not address this.

A few weeks ago,Labour T.D. Alan Kelly sought more transparency from those making decisions. This is a classic case of lack of
transparency or explanation regarding this decision. It seems to me that the GUI accepted it without too much debate.

Golfhead65

Mushy wrote: »

Still dont know how it works with horse racing fixtures seemingly going ahead

All about money and taxes that horse racing generates for the public coffers...sh1te

Golfhead65

PARlance wrote: »

Northern Ireland is in the UK and take the lead from Boris not Leo. The GUI has to fall in line with either. I'm glad to have been taking the lead from Dublin on this one. Our death rate isn't great, but the UK's is almost double ours.

Yes but golf is governed from the republic so if it's open up there it should be open down here, I don't begrudge them but it's an absolute joke and again a lack of balls from those in charge.

Kingswood Rover

gypsy79 wrote: »

Cause you were the one screaming to get last outing cancelled. You have been very pessimistic on everything. Just didnt want this been dragged down again.

It is my firm opinion that golf should never have been stopped

And you are welcome to your opinion, at the time of the outing this was a rapidly developing epidemic which the country faced down through cutting transmission routes with unprecedented actions. By and Large those actions with the exception of Residential Care Facilities have now gotten us to a position where we can unwind and gingerly open up again. I think we may actually be at this stage a little too cautious. As for me being pessimistic on everything absolutely the other way you have to be given the team i follow. The glass is always half full but Co Vid had the potential if left unchecked to destroy peoples families and kill tens of thousands in this country it did not because of the efforts of the vast majority of the populace. See you in Kilkea.

Poker Face

Mushy wrote: »

Still dont know how it works with horse racing fixtures seemingly going ahead

yeah completely daft. From Monday I can travel 100KM for a game of golf as a members guest of another course yet I cant enter a score on my phone for a competition in my home club.

Mushy

Still dont know how it works with horse racing fixtures seemingly going ahead

Poker Face

JOINT RESPONSE TO QUERIES ON COMPETITIONS BY GUI AND ILGU

Saturday, 6th June 2020

In light of the large volume of queries received, the GUI and ILGU would like to clarify the situation which led to its communication to golfers and golf clubs confirming that club competitions would not be permitted in Phase 2.

In mid-April the GUI and ILGU submitted a draft Protocol to Government which outlined the means by which the Unions felt that golf could be re-introduced on a safe, low-risk basis. This submission by the Unions ultimately led to golf being included, as one of only two named sports, in Phase 1 of the Government’s Roadmap for Reopening Society and Business.

Once the Unions became aware of the phased approach taken by Government, Golf’s Protocol was updated to include phases matching those in the Government’s Roadmap and the Union’s submitted their updated Protocol to Government, including an Appendix setting out Golf’s phased plan. The Appendix indicated that Club competitions would be allowed in Phase 2.

The GUI and ILGU then issued the Protocol to clubs and golfers, emphasising that:

“Public health measures are likely to be continually updated by the Government. Even if golf continues to be allowed in such circumstances, the Protocol governing the safe playing of the game may be updated in line with any changes to public health measures.”

Phase 1 of Golf’s Protocol was subsequently approved by the Government appointed Expert Group on the Return to Sport. Feedback from the group was silent in relation to Phase 2 and subsequent phases.

On the week commencing 25th May, the Unions submitted their detailed Protocol for Phase 2 to Government, including some easing in restrictions relating to group sizes and tee-time intervals, indicating that the Protocol would be published and issued to affiliated clubs on Monday, 1st June.

On Wednesday, 3rd June, the Expert Group on the Return to Sport met and considered Phase 2 protocols from various sports. At this meeting, the Group decided that competitions across all team and individual sports would not be permitted in Phase 2. This was communicated to the Unions on Thursday, 4th June.

Clearly, the Unions remained of the view that golf competitions, played under that conditions set out in Appendix 2 of the Unions Phase 2 Protocol, posed no additional risk to golfers. This was communicated to Sport Ireland on the afternoon of Thursday, 4th June and Sport Ireland were asked to reconsider the position.

On the afternoon of Friday, 5th June, Sport Ireland confirmed the decision of the Expert Group, as follows:

“An important point is that the Expert Group advises against any competitive sport in Phase 2. That is a general point across all sports and not directed at golf specifically although relevant to your plans. Fairness and consistency of the application of advice across all sport is an important element of the mandate of the Expert Group.

There is a rationale behind that advice. Phase 2 remains a high risk Phase with COVID 19 still active in community settings. People are encouraged to return to sport and physical activity but strictly within public health guidelines. There are significant relaxations of the protocols but caution is still recommended. Competition in sport is not advised as it means higher intensity activity, more people involved in a particular event and an incentive for people to travel beyond the 20 km limit.

We understand your point that closed club competitions were included in protocols submitted some weeks ago. However, the Expert Group works on a Phase by Phase basis as the public health advice can change. Phase 2 was only considered on June 3 and it is understood that the public health emergency is an evolving situation with a high level of uncertainty from week to week. NGBs have to plan ahead but those plans are subject to change depending on Government approval and advice.”

The Unions then issued their statement to clubs confirming that competitions could not be played in Phase 2.

On the morning of Saturday, 6th June, the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport issued a Press Release (See: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/c7327-return-to-sport-expert-group-recommends-further-steps-towards-phase-2-protocols/) confirming the decision of the Expert Group. The Press Release states:

“On this occasion, the Expert Group emphasized that the resumption of permitted sporting activity under phase 2 related to team sports training (but not matches) where social distancing can be maintained and where there is no contact. The focus is on team training, not on the playing of team games.

Accordingly, the Expert Group confirmed that training matches, friendlies, competitive fixtures or competitions in individual or team sport are not included under phase two; these will arise in later phases.”

The GUI and ILGU acknowledge the work of the Expert Group in the complex matter of getting sport re-started in a safe manner and particularly, for the progressive approach the Group has taken in deciding that golf would be included from Phase 1. We will continue to work with the Group as we progress through the Roadmap.

The Unions welcome the easing of travel restrictions from 8th June, and their proposed elimination from Phase 3, which will allow increased access to golf courses and the potential for additional revenue generation from green fees.

Finally, we would like to commend our member clubs and golfers for the manner in which they have embraced Golf’s Protocol during Phase 1 and we welcome the fact that our game continues to provide an outlet to people in these challenging times.

gypsy79

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Ok Gypsy 79, not sure why you posted above i have not criticized merely surmised the reasons for the backtrack. I agree its a load of me long lad and am mad to get playing competitively at this stage. Sure we can play together in Kilkea and set the world to rights.

Cause you were the one screaming to get last outing cancelled. You have been very pessimistic on everything. Just didnt want this been dragged down again.

It is my firm opinion that golf should never have been stopped

PARlance

Down9194 wrote: »

Just checked on GUI site and it looks like competitions are allowed in the North from Monday. Seems strange that they have changed rules in one jurisdiction only

Northern Ireland is in the UK and take the lead from Boris not Leo. The GUI has to fall in line with either. I'm glad to have been taking the lead from Dublin on this one. Our death rate isn't great, but the UK's is almost double ours.

Down9194

Just checked on GUI site and it looks like competitions are allowed in the North from Monday. Seems strange that they have changed rules in one jurisdiction only

CalamariFritti

Its a bit pathetic tho how we have gone from what's necessary to do with regards to the virus to political squabbles and 'if I cant do X nobody will'. Some things will never change, eh...

Doesn't bother me personally if I'm not playing comps for another 3 weeks. But clubs are struggling financially already and its just reflective of a poor representation of its members by the GUI. And not only that but looking at wording and timing of the announcement they're also being taken for fools tbh.

PARlance

prawnsambo wrote: »

No, I had thought of that, but by the same token, he's got nothing to lose. But he probably doesn't have the backbone required unfortunately. Just pointing out the obvious route to take for people who are incensed by this.

My line to those would be life's too short to be getting incensed. The weeks will fly by and it'll be forgotten in a month or two. We're fairly "lucky" to be golfing imo, I expected a bigger backlash from non golfers tbh that could have scuppered things.

prawnsambo

PARlance wrote: »

I'm not sure the outgoing Minister for Sport is going to get too buried by anything. He had little to no interest in sport to begin his tenure and I can't see him doing much now. I think you're greatly overestimating his interest in this matter.

It's 3 weeks, it's a little annoying. I'd feel for those who have worked hard to get things in line from a club front but it's not the end of the world.

No, I had thought of that, but by the same token, he's got nothing to lose. But he probably doesn't have the backbone required unfortunately. Just pointing out the obvious route to take for people who are incensed by this.

PARlance

prawnsambo wrote: »

No. It literally is Sport Ireland not wanting other sports hassling them with "But golf...". They have all sports over a barrel because they dole out the money.

I can almost guarantee it.

Edit: How you deal with this btw, is deluge Shane Ross with emails of complaint. Absolutely bury him in them. Sport Ireland might not want hassle from other sports, but they certainly don't want hassle from the minister.

I'm not sure the outgoing Minister for Sport is going to get too buried by anything. He had little to no interest in sport to begin his tenure and I can't see him doing much now. I think you're greatly overestimating his interest in this matter.

It's 3 weeks, it's a little annoying. I'd feel for those who have worked hard to get things in line from a club front but it's not the end of the world.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

This is a bad decision. I know its only another 3 or so weeks but we are entering the summer and clubs need money. I dont see a good enough reason for this in terms of the virus. It seems a more political reason. Trying not to upset other sports that cant resume yet

No. It literally is Sport Ireland not wanting other sports hassling them with "But golf...". They have all sports over a barrel because they dole out the money.

I can almost guarantee it.

Edit: How you deal with this btw, is deluge Shane Ross with emails of complaint. Absolutely bury him in them. Sport Ireland might not want hassle from other sports, but they certainly don't want hassle from the minister.