How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Belgium went a good long while. It happens. It's not a big deal.

What was a big deal was the DUP reneging on a deal about the ILA and kicking up a fuss in Westminster because they held the balance of power there.

Stormont wasn't interesting enough for them while they played with the adults in London.

As regards a UI, it's the Constitutional aspiration of this State coupled with it bring a goal for ALL parties. It's not Sinn Féin's alone.

Its a goal for all(no need for caps) parties at the right time. SF fire it out and supporters all the time with no consideration for anyone.

They think it is their devine right to talk about ti and anyone that questions it have to be shouted at. read the comments on here.

Let SF fix all the issues they have made in NI and then come back and start talking, at the moment it is the usually bluster from a poor polticial leader and a rabble of a party

Deleted User wrote: »

No...but politically they align with them (and others such as uvf,lvf OO etc)and il not give any of my money to them if possible,and support all boycotts/cancels within reason

That is what will be difficult for political opposition to a UI. They will have to align with the DUPers and belligerent Unionism. Good luck with that one.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I want a United Ireland. I think you ask majority of people they want it as well in Rep. In North I doubt the unionist want it.

Now the difference is do I want a United Ireland where I have to pay a load of extra tax and could end up with bombs going off in Dublin? No I don't.

Sinn Fein and DUP need to sort their s**t out. Mary Lou shouting and roaring about a United Ireland means nothing to me because she has shown she has zero leadership. All mouth,

When the DUP come out and say they want to discuss a United Ireland then it will be worthwhile. When they come up with a plan that doesn't mean the people of Rep of Ireland get hit with another tax to fix the mess SF and DUP have made then lets talk.

Till then, Mary Lou should shut up and sort out the North, not going to happen anytime soon so will we have a United Ireland in my lifetime? probably not if it is up to Sinn Fien

Grand. So you're a Partitionist then. But only if it affects your pocket. That gives you enough cover I guess. A financial partitionist?

Oh lord, what is the shít that SF and the DUP need to sort out that you mention above?

Why are you cowering behind a staunch unionist party as the party that should lead the conversation on a UI? Do you not realise how unlikely that is?

Why are the DUP, a group of bigoted beligerent unionists so important, but northern Nationalists and MOR unionists are cast aside as if they don't matter?

I don't think you've thought this through.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Its a goal for all(no need for caps) parties at the right time. SF fire it out and supporters all the time with no consideration for anyone.

They think it is their devine right to talk about ti and anyone that questions it have to be shouted at. read the comments on here.

Let SF fix all the issues they have made in NI and then come back and start talking, at the moment it is the usually bluster from a poor polticial leader and a rabble of a party

You'd better get on to Leo and Michael because they are setting up a 'Unity Unit' if they manage to get a government together.

jh79 wrote: »

I don't see how partition affects reproductive rights?

SF in the North wanted to restrict abortion in the case of non-fatal fetal abnormalities. In the Republic they were against this type of restriction.

Well, the POC was an administrative tool not in use in the South such that it stopped marriage equality and reproductive choices.

The jurisdictional difference matters.

It's quite clear you can't talk about anything else but SF when it comes to a UI. You've latched into this motion like a limpet. And despite its practical irrelevance you just can't let go.

Deleted User wrote: »

Stormont is a waste of time,NI has failed as a state entirely,pull.the plug

Stormont is a mess because of SF and DUP, a United Ireland will still have SF and DUP just without the open cheque book the English have. Do sort themselves out first then come calling

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sounds to me you use that term as some sort of an insult.

In that regards anyone using that term can be qualified as the below
Racist

a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Why are Partitionists so afraid of the word that exists to describe their politics?

It's a practical word with a long-held and well defined meaning, just like nationalist, republican, unionist, dissenter and loyalist are. Can you be offended by them in the same way?

If you're offended by it, then it really seems to speak with your own personal unease with your own Politics.

The rest of us can't help you there. But we can tease it out I guess.

Also, its quite a stretch to accuse someone of racism here. Completely unacceptable.

The Rep of Ireland and North have never been in a better position. No bombs and no borders. The people of the North get to come to Ireland and bask in the benefits that FF and FG have brought to the Irish people. Unfortunealty for them they do return to the mess SF and DUP have made.

You do know that Brexit happened, supported by the DUP and thus putting the border and reunification under the spotlight?

You realise too, that the reason that this is even on the menu at all is because of unionist intransigence, triumphalism and idiocy.

Why should the rest of continue to live with their crap when they evidently don't really care about what the populace actually wants? The days of the unionist veto are over!

Why would anyone want to risk the current situation to start another war, and for what?

Who's starting this war?

Loyalist threats again is it?

The brits have to pay to keep the North afloat. Unemployment is low in the North, mostly because the brits hjave to employ the place in public service. Unitied Ireland would take all that away, high unemployment, high taxes, bombs from unionist.

A lot of supposition here that we're replacing a stagnant economy and society in the UK with a stagnant economy and society in a UI.

It's not how this works. It's not a vacuum.

What would we get from SF then? more hiding in the shadows and lies. No thank you

Nonsense. Sinn Féin don't own a united Ireland or the aspiration to one.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Stormont is a mess because of SF and DUP, a United Ireland will still have SF and DUP just without the open cheque book the English have. Do sort themselves out first then come calling

Blame who ya want mate....it deosnt work,NI is a failed experment....time to pull.the plug

NI is in existance 100 years and unionist think so little of nationlists,they wont allow an irish language act,it will never change,its time to try something new....united ireland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'd better get on to Leo and Michael because they are setting up a 'Unity Unit' if they manage to get a government together.

If anything it will just highlight what a difficult proposition an UI is and temper any enthusiasm for it.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'd better get on to Leo and Michael because they are setting up a 'Unity Unit' if they manage to get a government together.

The only hope for a Unified Ireland is if the politicians get involved and put a deal together.

It was same with Good Friday when Bertie and the rest took control they finally got a deal.

We would be still waiting for a Good Friday if we had to rely on SF. Can't even negotiate with the PBP. Awful polticians led by an awful leader.

jh79 wrote: »

How will you know how people voted?

You won't. But you'll know how they campaign.

Similar to the feeling that one should have felt when they advertised that they were voting No to marriage equality and to repealing the 8th.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The only hope for a Unified Ireland is if the politicians get involved and put a deal together.

It was same with Good Friday when Bertie and the rest took control they finally got a deal.

We would be still waiting for a Good Friday if we had to rely on SF. Can't even negotiate with the PBP. Awful polticians led by an awful leader.

FFer gives all the credit to Bertie. Quelle surprise there Shef. I thought it was generally thought that 'Bertie' was an awful politician too. Left in disgrace did he not, like the leader before him.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You won't. But you'll know how they campaign.

Similar to the feeling that one should have felt when they advertised that they were voting No to marriage equality and to repealing the 8th.

What exactly have either of those votes got to do with Unified Ireland?

Its not even in the same ballpark

Disgrace that you would actually try and bundle them in together:mad:

jh79 wrote: »

If anything it will just highlight what a difficult proposition an UI is and temper any enthusiasm for it.

You preempting the outcome won't surprise anyone.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You preempting the outcome won't surprise anyone.

You said yourself NI would require massive investment. I've no doubt it will change a few minds.

downcow wrote: »

What gives you this idea.

The fact that it is exactly a roadmap to a border poll and a UI.

the GFA is every bit as much a roadmap to a permanent place in the UK for Northern Ireland.

Did I say it wasn't? You'll find you can go many places with a roadmap.

If we were to be technical though, we are actually at the "NI in UK" starting point. So we don't technically have to go anywhere to achieve that. So you wouldn't need a roadmap I guess?

We can argue over specific polls, but what is very clear is that there is certainly not an increasing percentage in Northern Ireland wishing for a united Island. So if anything the GFA is a roadmap allowing Republicans to save face as they want all except a united Island but never happen

I never posited an argument to you.

Whatever let's you sleep at night.

downcow wrote: »

Changes in voting trends are being misrepresented.
Every country ebbs and flows in support for one party or other.
There has been a rise in vote for the Alliance party - I don't see any other dramatic changes over the last decade.
A rise in the Alliance party vote should concern those who want to unite this landmass into one country.
A recent poll of Alliance party voters showed that they were in favour of remaining in the UK by 3 to 1.
Polls, to the dismay of Republicans, continue to remain fairly static with regard to the population having any interest uniting the island. It seems there are about 25% who would like to unite. That is a very steep hill to climb

So you've nothing to worry about then?

You're safe to continue in the bosom of the big house and eat the scraps.

jh79 wrote: »

You said yourself NI would require massive investment. I've no doubt it will change a few minds.

'Investment' is something that pays off. We cannot be afraid to invest. If we do we'll sink eventually as a country/island.

Why are you using it like it's a dirty word.

Deleted User wrote: »

Blame who ya want mate....it deosnt work,NI is a failed experment....time to pull.the plug

NI is in existance 100 years and unionist think so little of nationlists,they wont allow an irish language act,it will never change,its time to try something new....united ireland

How many people speak Irish in Northern Ireland?

I would ask if you speak Irish but we would get another story.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So its used by SF. Nobody else, SF and SF supporters

It's not though.

Even if it was, is it a phrase used inaccurately to describe your politics?

If you're offended by it I'd suggest establishing what it is that you find so distasteful about it.

It's a well-known phrase within these sorts of discussions. That you've not heard it before is not our problem. You've wandered into a thread discussing a the end of partition and are aghast at the word Partitionist. Cmon man.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am liking the way people are totally disregarding the unionist. Is that not what the English did to the Catholics and started the whole troubles?

How stupid would it be to disregard a whole community and then start off another load of bombing? seems like a few people on here would just like to forget about that issue and just ignore it. Sensible people will ask that question.

Plus all your polls, did any of them ask about having a united Ireland but your tax would increase by an extra 5-10% oper year to pay for Norther Ireland? if not then they are irrelevant results in Rep of Ireland.

Few people burying head in sand around her.

You've just landed in here. You have not read the whole thread nor its previous incarnations.

No one is disregarding unionists. You've just decided that that's the case.

Beligerent unionists however, they're on the scrap heap.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Investment' is something that pays off. We cannot be afraid to invest. If we do we'll sink eventually as a country/island.

Why are you using it like it's a dirty word.

Some investments are riskier than others and have the potential to ruin an economy. The level required for an UI has the potential to do just that.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As I said originally who uses the word, best you can come up with is Wiki and a reference to SF. So find someone, anyojne who uses it apart from SF and SF supporters?

If it is such a popular word then politicians all over the World would use it.

You can try change the subject but that was the original post, you have yet to answer. So please. Answer and if not then refrain from using the word.

This is poor.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Investment' is something that pays off. We cannot be afraid to invest. If we do we'll sink eventually as a country/island.

Why are you using it like it's a dirty word.

What exactly is about Northern Ireland that coudl qualify itself as an investment in business terms?

jh79 wrote: »

Some investments are riskier than others and have the potential to ruin an economy. The level required for an UI has the potential to do just that.

And?

That's what people will be asked to decide. Will the 'investment' secure the country from future threat...like Brexit, Covid, internal divisions or are we willing to ignore these things and take a chance.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's not though.

Even if it was, is it a phrase used inaccurately to describe your politics?

If you're offended by it I'd suggest establishing what it is that you find so distasteful about it.

It's a well-known phrase within these sorts of discussions. That you've not heard it before is not our problem. You've wandered into a thread discussing a the end of partition and are aghast at the word Partitionist. Cmon man.

I never heard it. Best the SF crowd could come up with is a wiki which references a SF person saying it,

Nobody else So no its not a well known phrase

Based on the history of this thread others have raised this point, to you as well Bonnie and you came up with the same lame excuses.

If people are constantly asking what it is, does that not suggest it is not well known????????

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And?

That's what people will be asked to decide. Will the 'investment' secure the country from future threat...like Brexit, Covid, internal divisions or are we willing to ignore these things and take a chance.

All of your examples can be dealt with in other ways. An UI is not by default the best solution.

We could use the money to invest in ICU beds, extra staff etc. Diverting funds away from the health service to fund an UI could make us less prepared for another pandemic.

Backstop down the Irish Sea will solve a lot of issues.

jh79 wrote: »

If anything it will just highlight what a difficult proposition an UI is and temper any enthusiasm for it.

It could but if the political will is there I think it would encourage unity. I would imagine it would be highly unlikely any of the main parties such as FF, FG or SDLP would campaign against unity though.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What exactly have either of those votes got to do with Unified Ireland?

Its not even in the same ballpark

Disgrace that you would actually try and bundle them in together:mad:

Eh, did you not read jh79's post that I responded to. I would suggest you do.

Disgrace? You're on eggshells today buddy aren't you?