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Tradesmen and cash jobs

Cyrus

Someone educate me,

a tradesman gives you a price for a job, say 500 euro but says i can do it for cash for 450.

What am i missing, he doesnt need to charge vat, 13.5%, gets him to 440 (450 close enough fine), but nor is he paying any corporation tax or paye.

the savings should be a lot more than him knocking some of the vat off surely?

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the beer revolu

Pay the €500 get a proper receipt, feel like a contributing citizen and feel good about yourself.

Iodine1

Cash job, no receipt, no insurance and no comeback. €50 saved could be the most expensive €50 you ever saved.

Padre_Pio

Cyrus wrote: »

Someone educate me,

a tradesman gives you a price for a job, say 500 euro but says i can do it for cash for 450.

What am i missing, he doesnt need to charge vat, 13.5%, gets him to 440 (450 close enough fine), but nor is he paying any corporation tax or paye.

the savings should be a lot more than him knocking some of the vat off surely?

It should. You save a little money, he makes more money.
You have no comeback should anything go wrong, and usually he's likely a cowboy if he's offering cash jobs in the first place.

Idbatterim

Ok, you can pay cash and it goes into the workers pocket or you can do it through the books and fifty percent of it gets to be wasted by government , assuming worker earns over marginal rate ...

Who do you your money going too? The rich or poor?

MarkY91

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ok, you can pay cash and it goes into the workers pocket or you can do it through the books and fifty percent of it gets to be wasted by government , assuming worker earns over marginal rate ...

Who do you your money going too? The rich or poor?

Don't you mean the economy or the dodgy tradesman?

KaneToad

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ok, you can pay cash and it goes into the workers pocket or you can do it through the books and fifty percent of it gets to be wasted by government , assuming worker earns over marginal rate ...

Who do you your money going too? The rich or poor?

Over the marginal rate is considered poor?

ExMachina1000

That 500 euro job should be 380 cash.

That's what I would charge. I presume its labour only no parts to be purchased

mickdw

Some tradesmen will not be vat registered while still being legit. In that case, 450 cash would be a reasonable deduction.
A vat registered person should be knocking off vat plus for a cash job.
Its ok to knock tradesmen and call them all cowboys but customer is equally to blame as trades are continually asked for cash prices.

Cyrus

some of you are misunderstanding the post, im not advocating taking the cash job, im asking why the offered savings are so small.

ExMachina1000

Cyrus wrote: »

some of you are misunderstanding the post, im not advocating taking the cash job, im asking why the offered savings are so small.

I get ya. It's not enough of a price reduction that's whi I said is it labour only

Kilboor

Cyrus wrote: »

some of you are misunderstanding the post, im not advocating taking the cash job, im asking why the offered savings are so small.

Because in general the person will accept it. Why would you not charge a higher price.

Iodine1

mickdw wrote: »

Some tradesmen will not be vat registered while still being legit. In that case, 450 cash would be a reasonable deduction.
A vat registered person should be knocking off vat plus for a cash job.
Its ok to knock tradesmen and call them all cowboys but customer is equally to blame as trades are continually asked for cash prices.

If not Vat registered, he should not be charging Vat and he should still give a receipt, and take payment by whatever means.

Ush1

Cyrus wrote: »

some of you are misunderstanding the post, im not advocating taking the cash job, im asking why the offered savings are so small.

Well realistically they aren't going to risk tax evasion for nothing.

You get the VAT off the price, they don't have to pay PAYE, PRSI and USC. That's the trade.

No point in them deducting that off the price for you for them to get the same amount they would have if they would have done the job through the books.

[Deleted User]

Cyrus wrote: »

Someone educate me,

a tradesman gives you a price for a job, say 500 euro but says i can do it for cash for 450.

What am i missing, he doesnt need to charge vat, 13.5%, gets him to 440 (450 close enough fine), but nor is he paying any corporation tax or paye.

the savings should be a lot more than him knocking some of the vat off surely?

He can claim.the vat back on materials,while not paying any on the job

Though personally think its a bad idea,your only saving someone else money

silver2020

I would guess the savings are split 50/50.

€100 saving - you get €50 off, he gets extra €50.

Not really worth it unless its something that can't be done wrong and the incentive jumps you up a waiting list and jobs like that you can probably do yourself or get someone from a mens shed to do.

Personally I would always pay direct into a bank account - it takes a few hours in most cases to eb in the account and gives you a record for yourself.

Ush1

Deleted User wrote: »

He can claim.the vat back on materials,while not paying any on the job

Though personally think its a bad idea,your only saving someone else money

That would be a risky thing to do, revenue could ask what job were these materials used for and where is the paper work?

Baymax2020

Cyrus wrote: »

some of you are misunderstanding the post, im not advocating taking the cash job, im asking why the offered savings are so small.

More than likely because he still has to pay other costs that people who aren't from a trade background don't see, such as tax and insurance on his van basic upkeep and maintenance of his tools or if one of his tools breaks it would have to be replaced.

I wouldn't worry about a tradesman been a cowboy just because he knocks a few quid off for cash as long as he comes with a good reputation or you have seen some previous work.

B.A._Baracus

Cyrus wrote: »

some of you are misunderstanding the post, im not advocating taking the cash job, im asking why the offered savings are so small.

Simply put he wagered that by giving you 50 euro off for paying cash you would take it.

So he gets his cash in hand.
He doesn't give you a receipt as that's the deal.
He doesn't pay any tax.
It's a nixer.

Cyrus

Baymax2020 wrote: »

More than likely because he still has to pay other costs that people who aren't from a trade background don't see, such as tax and insurance on his van basic upkeep and maintenance of his tools or if one of his tools breaks it would have to be replaced.

I wouldn't worry about a tradesman been a cowboy just because he knocks a few quid off for cash as long as he comes with a good reputation or you have seen some previous work.

he pays them whether he he charges vat or not, by making it a cash job he makes a lot more, i dont get your point at all.

and i also agree that not all tradesmen that do jobs for cash are cowboys

Ush1

Cyrus wrote: »

he pays them whether he he charges vat or not, by making it a cash job he makes a lot more, i dont get your point at all.

and i also agree that not all tradesmen that do jobs for cash are cowboys

He makes more, you pay less. Where's the confusion?

Cyrus

Ush1 wrote: »

He makes more, you pay less. Where's the confusion?

yes but the hidden costs that were mentioned are there one way or the other. tax on his van tools etc.

also he makes a lot more than i save, just doesnt make sense as a value proposition.

Baymax2020

Cyrus wrote: »

yes but the hidden costs that were mentioned are there one way or the other. tax on his van tools etc.

also he makes a lot more than i save, just doesnt make sense as a value proposition.

It's simple if you're not happy with his price go elsewhere or else pay the full amount and get a receipt. He's giving you the opportunity to save a few quid makes no odds to him if you take it or leave it

Ush1

Cyrus wrote: »

yes but the hidden costs that were mentioned are there one way or the other. tax on his van tools etc.

also he makes a lot more than i save, just doesnt make sense as a value proposition.

He's the one taking the bigger risk. Haggle the price or pay the VAT, or get someone else.

Cyrus

Baymax2020 wrote: »

It's simple if you're not happy with his price go elsewhere or else pay the full amount and get a receipt. He's giving you the opportunity to save a few quid makes no odds to him if you take it or leave it

sure thats a given, but your other point made no sense.

and it is odds to him at the rates quoted because he makes a lot more doing it for cash than legit.

Cyrus

Ush1 wrote: »

He's the one taking the bigger risk. Haggle the price or pay the VAT, or get someone else.

again you are misunderstanding me,

im not paying cash, im paying the full price,

i just find the cash price offered strange and not worth my while going to an atm to be frank!

Ush1

Cyrus wrote: »

sure thats a given, but your other point made no sense.

and it is odds to him at the rates quoted because he makes a lot more doing it for cash than legit.

Most tradesmen I've dealt with it doesn't make much odds to them because they will need to put most jobs through the books anyway. A couple of cash jobs or nixors here and there.

Ush1

Cyrus wrote: »

again you are misunderstanding me,

im not paying cash, im paying the full price,

i just find the cash price offered strange and not worth my while going to an atm to be frank!

I'm not misunderstanding you, I'm explaining the cash price offered that you find strange. He is taking a bigger risk so while you will save 13.5% on the price, he saves more but you can haggle or be happy with that saving.

If it's a 50 or 60k job, 13.5% is a nice saving.

Cyrus

Ush1 wrote: »

I'm not misunderstanding you, I'm explaining the cash price offered that you find strange. He is taking a bigger risk so while you will save 13.5% on the price, he saves more but you can haggle or be happy with that saving.

If it's a 50 or 60k job, 13.5% is a nice saving.

it is, not many people paying cash for a 50/60k job.

also, if a tradesman is doing it the 25-30k extra he makes for cash is a very nice saving.

Ush1

Cyrus wrote: »

it is, not many people paying cash for a 50/60k job.

also, if a tradesman is doing it the 25-30k extra he makes for cash is a very nice saving.

Yep and if revenue comes a knocking it will be his problem, not yours.

Mad_maxx

Cyrus wrote: »

Someone educate me,

a tradesman gives you a price for a job, say 500 euro but says i can do it for cash for 450.

What am i missing, he doesnt need to charge vat, 13.5%, gets him to 440 (450 close enough fine), but nor is he paying any corporation tax or paye.

the savings should be a lot more than him knocking some of the vat off surely?

if was quoted 500 for a job , id offer 400 cash , 450 is too high as i can usually write off cost against tax