How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And it's hard not to believe that perhaps Northern Ireland as an entity as part of the UK is a failure given the fact that it's in its current state after nearly 100 years.

Perhaps it would be better served being reunited eh?

It might be better served alright but at the cost of those in the Republic.

Ye all say it's a failed statelet. Obviously failed statelets cost more than functioning ones.

BloodyBill wrote: »

Iv no doubt that's true. I'm just saying the country was the 11th richest in the world around 1916. Dublin slums got even worse as did Limericks before they started falling down and finally replaced..we still have horrific areas to this day. The World is a tough place. I think we are abit immature as a Nation.
We reject any of our British past..We say we were as colonised as the Indians. We take no ownership of our part in the British Empire ...as Empire Builders.. stats like 60% of civil servants in Bengal in the 1850s being Irish..half Catholic. It is beyond our ability to see past the victimhood of the famine ,as terrible as it was and realise we arent some special case. Even the Indians dont talk as negatively of their British past as much as we do. It's weird. We are ok with all the poor Irish in the British Army over hundreds of years ( no choice,needed
to put food on the table..,rubbish most joined because they wanted to) ...but as soon as they get to be officer rank we disown them because we Irish cant be Colonisers ..

Were we an independent nation in 1916 or an integral part of the UK?

downcow wrote: »

A valid point of view, but for you unfortunately a minority point of view at every single point during the last 100 years, and I am pretty confident it will remain a minority point of view for the next 100 years

Okay so.

jh79 wrote: »

It might be better served alright but at the cost of those in the Republic.

Ye all say it's a failed statelet. Obviously failed statelets cost more than functioning ones.

Exactly.

Your "othering" of our fellow citizens in the North is sad.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Exactly.

Your "othering" of our fellow citizens in the North is sad.

It was a tactic of the IRA to ruin the NI economy so SF can fix it as far as i am concerned.

But obviously a bit of a conundrum for them as a functioning NI might not care about an UI.

jh79 wrote: »

It was a tactic of the IRA to ruin the NI economy so SF can fix it as far as i am concerned.

And nothing at all with being treated as second class citizens.

What happened between 1922 and 1969 so?

A Utopian society no doubt eh?

But obviously a bit of a conundrum for them as a functioning NI might not care about an UI.

Ah yes, loyalty to the half crown.

statesaver

jh79 wrote: »

It was a tactic of the IRA to ruin the NI economy so SF can fix it as far as i am concerned.

That's a DUP tactic now, surely

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And nothing at all with being treated as second class citizens.

What happened between 1922 and 1969 so?

A Utopian society no doubt eh?

Ah yes, loyalty to the half crown.

SF are part of the political classes now, on the board of the PSNI and attend Cobra meetings. Are you saying their participation in partition has been fruitless.

I've only ever been paid in punts and euros whereas the likes of Conor Murphy from the Republican heartland of Armagh gets paid by the Crown.

statesaver wrote: »

That's a DUP tactic now, surely

As i said a conundrum for SF. Turkeys don't vote for xmas and redunancies in the NI PS would be inevitable.

Next year will see Unionists twisting themselves into hoops trying to 'celebrate' 100 years of NI while nationalists will be reviewing 100 years of partition.
There will be much introspection, an ideal time for a formal discussion to begin.

Hopefully Leo and Michael's 'Unity Unit' will be up and running by then, or maybe we will have SF in power here to drive that discussion forward.

A lot has happened in the short 20 years since the GFA if you look at it without jaundiced eyes.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Next year will see Unionists twisting themselves into hoops trying to 'celebrate' 100 years of NI while nationalists will be reviewing 100 years of partition.
There will be much introspection, an ideal time for a formal discussion to begin.

Hopefully Leo and Michael's 'Unity Unit' will be up and running by then, or maybe we will have SF in power here to drive that discussion forward.

A lot has happened in the short 20 years since the GFA if you look at it without jaundiced eyes.

I sure that will be the case in NI but in the Republic it will be COVID, the economy, housing and health and preparations for future pandemics. SF will make a lot of noise but won't risk their new found popularity.

RobMc59

jh79 wrote: »

SF are part of the political classes now, on the board of the PSNI and attend Cobra meetings. Are you saying their participation in partition has been fruitless.

I've only ever been paid in punts and euros whereas the likes of Conor Murphy from the Republican heartland of Armagh gets paid by the Crown.

SF seem more comfortable in a 'hurler on the ditch' roll, eager to criticise everyone else's efforts but wouldn't have a clue if they actually got into power.
Michelle O'Neil also seems very comfortable as part of the UK setup whilst taking the Queen shilling.

RobMc59 wrote: »

whilst taking the Queen shilling.

So subservient.

It isn't the 'Queen's shilling' when you pay your taxes and fully contribute to your own community in your own country.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So subservient.

It isn't the 'Queen's shilling' when you pay your taxes and fully contribute to your own community in your own country.

What country is that then?

jh79 wrote: »

What country is that then?

Ireland.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ireland.

In Sterling with taxes going to whose coffers?

A bit too eager with that reply i think.

jh79 wrote: »

In Sterling with taxes going to whose coffers?

A bit too eager with that reply i think.

Typical partitionist, demand that people lie down and await democracy, then when they compromise do your level best to taunt them.

The hate for your fellow citizen is all over your posting.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So subservient.

It isn't the 'Queen's shilling' when you pay your taxes and fully contribute to your own community in your own country.

If you just left it at community you would of been grand.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical partitionist, demand that people lie down and await democracy, then when they compromise do your level best to taunt them.

The hate for your fellow citizen is all over your posting.

Hate! You voted for the political wing of a terrorist organisation guilty of sectarian murder.

My voting history is extremely boring.

Francie, you posted something silly in haste, admit your error and move on.

jh79 wrote: »

If you just left it at community you would of been grand.

Why? SF are pretty clear on what they are..Irish people living in a partitioned part of a country called Ireland. The GFA legitimises that and their aspirations.

Kermit.de.frog

There won't be a UK in the next 10 years anyway. The Scots will leave and that will be that.

Francie would be better waiting instead of agitating for it.

Junkyard Tom

BloodyBill wrote: »

I'm just saying the country was the 11th richest in the world around 1916.

By what measurement? The US is the richest place in the world but I wouldn't like to be poor there.

Dublin slums got even worse as did Limericks before they started falling down and finally replaced..we still have horrific areas to this day.

So what? Are you suggesting the Brits would have generously improved them? I say you haven't a clue what you're on about if you did:

The new State got stuck into the housing market straight away with the introduction in 1922 of the excitingly-named Million Pound Scheme. This enabled local authorities to construct 2,000 houses in just two years, most of which were sold to middle-income buyers.

When that fund was exhausted in 1924, grants and subsidies for private house purchase and construction took over, though local authorities continued to build some private houses directly.

irishtimes.com

We reject any of our British past..

We reject that British colonialism and those with colonised minds, like you, were anything but a scourge on the vast majority of people in Ireland.

We take no ownership of our part in the British Empire ...as Empire Builders.. stats like 60% of civil servants in Bengal in the 1850s being Irish..half Catholic.

Yes and we should have nothing but remorse for the shameful part we played in it.

It is beyond our ability to see past the victimhood of the famine

Speak for yourself, I consider us survivors not victims.

as terrible as it was and realise we arent some special case.

Nobody claims we are a special case, that's a strawman argument.

We are ok with all the poor Irish in the British Army over hundreds of years ( no choice, needed to put food on the table..,rubbish most joined because they wanted to) ...

Who cares what their motivations were? We were a colonised people and we fortunately rescued ourselves (mostly) from ending up like Wales or Scotland who are burdened by being dependencies of England or worst of all the North of Ireland which is one of the most deprived, and racist, places in Western Europe.

I think we are abit immature as a Nation.

I think you have a colonised mind and this idea that a 'mature' nation must reconcile with its coloniser before its coloniser accepts responsibility and apologises for its crimes is just batshit crazy.

NB: Before the 1920's was out we had started one of the largest hydroelectric schemes on Earth in Shannon. Have some pride, stand up straight, and stop tugging your forelock.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So subservient.

It isn't the 'Queen's shilling' when you pay your taxes and fully contribute to your own community in your own country.

Francie, do you really want to pretend you meant to say this? You made a mistake in the heat of the moment.

jh79 wrote: »

Francie, do you really want to pretend you meant to say this? You made a mistake in the heat of the moment.

It never was the 'Queen's schilling' jh, don't be such a knee bender. The queen is a taker.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There won't be a UK in the next 10 years anyway. The Scots will leave and that will be that.

Francie would be better waiting instead of agitating for it.

I can do both Kermit. Safe in the knowledge that the day is coming.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

this is a wonderful statistic. One I have not heard before. Would you have any evidence or a link - just checking before I open a wee bottle to celebrate my newfound knowledge

You come across as utterly desperate, like you're scrabbling around in the dirt to find some sort of justification for Britain's rotten past in Ireland.

When our Justice Minister tried to honour the RIC (Britain's paramilitary police staffed by plenty of Irish Catholics) there was general outcry, the vast majority of us are ashamed of those vindictive scumbags who remained in the RIC during the War of Independence.

jh79 wrote: »

Francie, do you really want to pretend you meant to say this? You made a mistake in the heat of the moment.

Ah yes, when you have no where else to go the Partitionist resorts to patronising comments.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It never was the 'Queen's schilling' jh, don't be such a knee bender. The queen is a taker.

Doubling down. Ok so. GFA means SF are willing participants until democracy says otherwise. Nobody is stealing money from their pay packet

His taxes also fund the British military as highlighted by Pease D as an expense that wouldn't need to be paid as part of an UI. Pretty certain my taxes don't fund the BA so again what country were you referring too if this wasn't a mistake on your part?

Is the country you are referring to still Ireland?

jh79 wrote: »

Doubling down. Ok so. GFA means SF are willing participants until democracy says otherwise. Nobody is stealing money from their pay packet

His taxes also fund the British military as highlighted by Pease D as an expense that wouldn't need to be paid as part of an UI. Pretty certain my taxes don't fund the BA so again what country were you referring too if this wasn't a mistake on your part?

Is the country you are referring to still Ireland?

What is your actual point here?