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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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[Deleted User]

matthewmurdock wrote: »

Completely agree.

I'm studying for a degree (meaning I've already completed the Certificate and Diploma) in a specifically relevant field as a Clerical Officer but am being paid the same as somebody who started the same time as me but hasn't even gotten a certificate in that field.

Obviously I expect that the degree will lead to promotions down the line, but in the short term with a recruitment freeze probably likely then putting the work into assignments/study/exams doesn't benefit me at all.

you pay for the courses yourself?

and arent getting study/exam leave?

you'll have your qualifications at the end of it, and you'll see the benefits at interview time if it has allowed you to achieve more at work in the interim.

well done and all that, but cmon like. its a big old system and the way it works is there for all to see at every stage.

Chaos Black

I think the education and training opportunities where I work are a major plus. The wages aren’t as competitive but if you are willing the scope for learning is great. And often expected that you avail of it if you want to progress.

Reputable Rog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

you pay for the courses yourself?

and arent getting study/exam leave?

you'll have your qualifications at the end of it, and you'll see the benefits at interview time if it has allowed you to achieve more at work in the interim.

well done and all that, but cmon like. its a big old system and the way it works is there for all to see at every stage.

Sounds to me like he’s doing Local Government studies which is one of the piss easiest courses around, nothing you can’t find out for free on the internet.
And the course is paid for and exam/ study leave given.
There’s nothing novel about it and it doesn’t deserve recognition at interview stage.

Reputable Rog

DM1983 wrote: »

This is surprising to me. We're on the eve of a massive economic recession. Seems like it would have been an easy sell politically to hold off on this 2%. The vast majority of workers in the country won't be receiving any pay increase this year so why go ahead with it? Obviously PS workers will be happy!

Anyone else struggling to see the logic behind it though?

Not a pay increase, pay restoration.

DM1983

Chaos Black wrote: »

Practical reason: This was already agreed as part of the last pay deal.

Political Reason: Cutting public sector wages whilst elements of it are on the frontline and significant portions are dealing with the crisis in the background would not play well at the moment.

Fiscal reason: The Government don't want to send a signal of austerity and want people spending money again and consumer confidence.

The pandemic will have to be paid for at some point, but likely later down the line.

Yep I like your fiscal reason. Great point and one I hadn't considered. The other two could have been explained away reasonably easily - totally different landscape to when this was originally agreed. Still don't agree with it but at least it makes sense.

[Deleted User]

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Sounds to me like he’s doing Local Government studies which is one of the piss easiest courses around, nothing you can’t find out for free on the internet.
And the course is paid for and exam/ study leave giving.
There’s nothing novel about it and it doesn’t deserve recognition at interview stage.

This is typical of the sort of begrudging negative posters these sort of threads attract.

Reputable Rog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is typical of the sort of begrudging negative posters these sort of threads attract.

Not begrudging, it’s a Junior Cert level civics course at best designed to generate income for ex County Managers.
I did the Cert years ago, couldn’t believe how easy it was.

Jim Root

Private sector companies are taking cuts to payroll of 10-25%, this is based on 15-20 company announcements I have tracked.

the difference between the two sectoral approaches is staggering.

HartsHat

Jim Root wrote: »

Private sector companies are taking cuts to payroll of 10-25%, this is based on 15-20 company announcements I have tracked.

the difference between the two sectoral approaches is staggering.

I recieved annual pay rises of 10%+ in the private sector between 2013 and 2017. That same company (a professional services firm) hasn't yet implemented a single pay cut or job loss.

The fact of the matter is that public sector is steady employment. There's rarely wild swings. Your employer won't give you a 25k bonus (which I did get in the private sector), but you will go up by a grand or so for the rest of your life.

For some reason some people only want to look at the public sector when the private sector isnt flying, ignoring the 5 years previous when any private sector worth his or her salt was getting significant pay increases.

barneystinson

DM1983 wrote: »

This is surprising to me. We're on the eve of a massive economic recession. Seems like it would have been an easy sell politically to hold off on this 2%. The vast majority of workers in the country won't be receiving any pay increase this year so why go ahead with it? Obviously PS workers will be happy!

Anyone else struggling to see the logic behind it though?

Seriously? You’re struggling to understand the logic?! You actually thought Pascal was ever going to come out, today, while we’re still in the middle of (or only just coming out of) peak pandemic hysteria, and say the Govt isn’t going to give frontline workers their already agreed pay restoration?!?! Remember, this is collective bargaining, so a nurse in ICU and somebody in the Dept of Bollixology who’s been twiddling their thumbs at home since March, are all included in the same cohort.

However, October is still a loooong way away, and there’s still plenty of time for subsequent events to move those goalposts and Pascal to have no choice but to revise his position.

I’m a civil servant myself and even after today I’d rate the prospects of that 2% happening as no better than 50:50, and even if it does, it’ll be taken back again by some form of taxation or new FEMPI 2.0 measures next year when we have to start paying for this disaster...

mikeym

Start at the top.

Michael D Higgins has done sweet fcuk all this year cut his pay by 50%.

Then work your way down from the Taoiseach to the Td's and Senators. Obviously you wouldnt take 50% off them but still cut their pay.

Then you cut the high earners in the Civil Service and Public Service (those who get over €100,000).

Those who are on the lowest scale shouldnt be cut.

2ndcoming

Jim Root wrote: »

Private sector companies are taking cuts to payroll of 10-25%, this is based on 15-20 company announcements I have tracked.

the difference between the two sectoral approaches is staggering.

The only thing that is staggering is the disingenuousness of this post.

yenom

After nine years service, 2% to me is €9:20 before tax.

addaword

yenom wrote: »

After nine years service, 2% to me is €9:20 before tax.

You are probably on about 1000 a week so, before tax and pension contribution. That is close to the public service average of 50,000 per year, so would be about right. Most people in the private sector are or were not on that, even before covid-19. Most people do not work in google. Most people do not even work in multinationals. Even in those, there are people with a degree and 9 years experience on less than you, but without the security and defined benefit pension. You are probably better off than 9 out of 10 people currently.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

You are probably on about 1000 a week so, before tax and pension contribution. That is close to the public service average of 50,000 per year, so would be about right. Most people in the private sector are or were not on that, even before covid-19. Most people do not work in google. Most people do not even work in multinationals. Even in those, there are people with a degree and 9 years experience on less than you, but without the security and defined benefit pension. You are probably better off than 9 out of 10 people currently.

He has told you what 2% means for him. How do you determine he earns 1000 per week from that ??

Vizzy

addaword wrote: »

You are probably on about 1000 a week so, before tax and pension contribution. That is close to the public service average of 50,000 per year, so would be about right. Most people in the private sector are or were not on that, even before covid-19. Most people do not work in google. Most people do not even work in multinationals. Even in those, there are people with a degree and 9 years experience on less than you, but without the security and defined benefit pension. You are probably better off than 9 out of 10 people currently.

You are making it up again. Do your maths

Looptheloop30

addaword wrote: »

You are probably on about 1000 a week so, before tax and pension contribution. That is close to the public service average of 50,000 per year, so would be about right .

Thats some **** maths right there

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

You are probably on about 1000 a week so, before tax and pension contribution. That is close to the public service average of 50,000 per year, so would be about right. Most people in the private sector are or were not on that, even before covid-19. Most people do not work in google. Most people do not even work in multinationals. Even in those, there are people with a degree and 9 years experience on less than you, but without the security and defined benefit pension. You are probably better off than 9 out of 10 people currently.

utterly shameless if not just a wind up

suicide_circus

we're all going to get hammered with tax increases shortly lads, its gonna be a bloodbath

[Deleted User]

HartsHat wrote: »

For some reason some people only want to look at the public sector when the private sector isnt flying, ignoring the 5 years previous when any private sector worth his or her salt was getting significant pay increases.

And likewise the public sector only look at the salaries when the private sector is flying, hence the scramble of benchmarking on the 00s.

Once the private sector takes a nose-dive - twice now in 11 years - the response of the public sector is to look the other way.

They daren't breathe the word bench-mark in recent years

[Deleted User]

yenom wrote: »

After nine years service, 2% to me is €9:20 before tax.

Why don't you leave immediately and join the private sector where you'll be paid at least double. With your experience in the public sector, I doubt you'll even have to do an interview. They'll want you straight in the door.

Don't worry about your old spot, plenty more in the Competition Panel eager take your place.

Chaos Black

Everyone private sector or public have their own self interests at heart and will fight their corner when it comes to pay, pensions and taxes.

Likely the majority of us in both sectors will get hit with some form of pay decrease/increased taxes/reduced services after the initial wave of the Government pumping money into the economy for the next year to get it running again and hopefully mitigate the damage.

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He has told you what 2% means for him. How do you determine he earns 1000 per week from that ??

He got someone from Sinn Fein Economics department. They're very good at the sums

HartsHat

salonfire wrote: »

Why don't you leave immediately and join the private sector where you'll be paid at least double. With your experience in the public sector, I doubt you'll even have to do an interview. They'll want you straight in the door.

Don't worry about your old spot, plenty more in the Competition Panel eager take your place.

Does it ever cross your mind that some of us take massive pay cut to join the public sector, because we believe in public service? We want to work for our country to make it a better place?

Everything isn't about money. I'm happy to earn a fraction of what I earned in the private sector. I understand the public purse cant afford to pay private sector wages. However, I'm not going to do that and then take acut to what is already a low salary. I need to live too.

Does it ever cross your mind that if salaries go too low and some of us return to private sector the country will be worse off for it?

[Deleted User]

HartsHat wrote: »

Does it ever cross your mind that some of us take massive pay cut to join the public sector, because we believe in public service? We want to work for our country to make it a better place?

Everything isn't about money. I'm happy to earn a fraction of what I earned in the private sector. I understand the public purse cant afford to pay private sector wages. However, I'm not going to do that and then take acut to what is already a low salary. I need to live too.

Does it ever cross your mind that if salaries go too low and some of us return to private sector the country will be worse off for it?

Utter bull****

Edgware

HartsHat wrote: »

Does it ever cross your mind that some of us take massive pay cut to join the public sector, because we believe in public service? We want to work for our country to make it a better place?

Everything isn't about money. I'm happy to earn a fraction of what I earned in the private sector. I understand the public purse cant afford to pay private sector wages. However, I'm not going to do that and then take acut to what is already a low salary. I need to live too.

Does it ever cross your mind that if salaries go too low and some of us return to private sector the country will be worse off for it?

We appreciate your contribution. We will all give a clap at 8.00 p.m.

Dayor Knight

salonfire wrote: »

Utter bull****

Great contribution there. I'm convinced.

Dayor Knight

Edgware wrote: »

We appreciate your contribution. We will all give a clap at 8.00 p.m.

Do yeah, just keep it to one hand would ya.

Dayor Knight

addaword wrote: »

You are probably on about 1000 a week so, before tax and pension contribution. That is close to the public service average of 50,000 per year, so would be about right. Most people in the private sector are or were not on that, even before covid-19. Most people do not work in google. Most people do not even work in multinationals. Even in those, there are people with a degree and 9 years experience on less than you, but without the security and defined benefit pension. You are probably better off than 9 out of 10 people currently.

Great, some people in the public sector get paid more than some people in the private sector, some people in the private sector get paid more than some people in the public sector. And most people who are unemployed have a lot less than people who are employed, and most people who work in banks get paid more most people who work in pubs. That's everything cleared up now.

MarkR

All this "us vs them" stuff is polarizing.