FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You're missing the point
We are all stuck with mistakes because of our own choices, something to whinge about because of others choices, but the choices are made not by us in the final scenario, but by those we voted for.
If SF get in to Govt, and it could happen this term yet, its likely that the FG/FF/Green talks will have broken down. Then if there is a Govt formed the most likely one will be a SF/FF led coalition.
Another election will likely bring about the same kind of scenario we have now, so the plot will continue, to perhaps even a SF/FG coalition.
A lot of people will have to eat some kind of humble pie when it happens.
However as any Govt formed at any time will have been voted for by a majority of TD's, elected by a majority of voters, whether the majority of voters are happy with that choice or not.
That's the political reality in Ireland currently.
Is it the politicians fault or the voters?

When one set of politicians Y promise the electorate that they will never go into coalition with X, then before the ticks are dry on the ballot papers are cozying up to X, then of course the blame lies with the politicians. Both Y and X (for accepting the advances.)
It is making a mockery of the electorate because they do it hoping the electorate will forget.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When one set of politicians Y promise the electorate that they will never go into coalition with X, then before the ticks are dry on the ballot papers are cozying up to X, then of course the blame lies with the politicians. Both Y and X (for accepting the advances.)
It is making a mockery of the electorate because they do it hoping the electorate will forget.

As FF said they wouldn't go into coalition with SF, what would you say if it happened, what would your feelings towards SF be if it happened, or with FG for that matter?

Bishop of hope wrote: »

As FF said they wouldn't go into coalition with SF, what would you say if it happened, what would your feelings towards SF be if it happened, or with FG for that matter?

It's a lie.

In the case of FF + FG then the onus should be on FF to explain why they lied..same if they go into talks with SF.

The whole election process and wider politics is devalued by these pre-election lies and posturing. And it happens because you have two parties that are historically practically the same and have had to engage in this to offer some kind of sham difference.
It treats you and me equally as fools.

smurgen

Is she still in FG or still getting bad legal advice from someone in FG?

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1266040389808672768?s=19

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a lie.

In the case of FF + FG then the onus should be on FF to explain why they lied..same if they go into talks with SF.

The whole election process and wider politics is devalued by these pre-election lies and posturing. And it happens because you have two parties that are historically practically the same and have had to engage in this to offer some kind of sham difference.
It treats you and me equally as fools.

Carefully avoiding my question again and going on with the same old same old.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Carefully avoiding my question again and going on with the same old same old.

He/she is devaluing the word lie again
Like the boy/girl crying wolf at the hen house
Not that it matters much in wagon circling
You don't see that going on in tv radio and print/app news media
Mainly because like Mary Lou, those who put themselves in front of professional media have more sense than to be accusing people of lying like its confetti or carrying on like some posters here

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Carefully avoiding my question again and going on with the same old same old.

I thought it was implicit in what I said.
I would be unhappy with SF going in with FF without the lies being addressed. Same as I would be with the current coalition.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I thought it was implicit in what I said.
I would be unhappy with SF going in with FF without the lies being addressed. Same as I would be with the current coalition.

Ah you'll be allright.

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

If point scoring is pointing out legitimate criticisms and wanting to discuss them, sure.
You said you have issue with care homes and others talking about it are SF trying to score points. It seems to be a case of only the criticism you agree with and everyone else must have an agenda. Seems legit.

Really, do you not see any point scoring going on here against FG? If people want to discuss things, fine, but a few memories of this thread would suggest that it's not really about discussion, just whatever rubbish pops in to their head:

1. I already mentioned about someone saying Borris Johnson was making them look bad.

2. The addition of Dennis OBrien to the mix really set people jumping on their grassy knolls. One poster even saying that private hospitals being leased was because this virus also affects the rich.

I'm sure there are more examples if I were to look, but it's certainly not people without agendas wanting to discuss things.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m afraid there is a huge difference between ‘social media warriors’ and real life.

When the chips are down, reality and pragmatism will always win out.

How could anyone imagine SF and a bunch of marxists and commies running the country in good times never mind in times like this.

No my friend, only coins with nothing to lose and leaning toward anarchy could even dream of such a set up.

Billy Taxpayer has the sense to send that bad boy packing.

More people wanted SF to run the country than FG. The votes showed that in the election so stop talking absolute ****e.

The world has changed, the days of propaganda by the media and RTE in Ireland are over, again the election results showed us that

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

More people wanted SF to run the country than FG. The votes showed that in the election so stop talking absolute ****e.

The world has changed, the days of propaganda by the media and RTE in Ireland are over, again the election results showed us that

That was answered before
Several elections past,you could have used the same logic to say more people wanted FF in power but they weren't
And that's when FF was near 40%

You need to learn about democracy and how things work
Build alliances and you have pathway to government
Don't and you don't

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

As FF said they wouldn't go into coalition with SF, what would you say if it happened, what would your feelings towards SF be if it happened, or with FG for that matter?

But they said they wouldn't go in with FG too (and they also said they would go in with SF)

FG said they wouldn't go in with either. I'd be surprised if you didn't know this already considering the threads you post in tbh.

They're all liars. But it seems only the shinners line is the one that gets wheeled out.

Mortelaro wrote: »

That was answered before
Several elections past,you could have used the same logic to say more people wanted FF in power but they weren't
And that's when FF was near 40%

You need to learn about democracy and how things work
Build alliances and you have pathway to government
Don't and you don't

And you need to learn what 'lying' to the electorate means.

'Build alliances'...how I laughed at that one.

Pretend there is no alliance until it suits your sleeveen quest for power.

McMurphy wrote: »

They're all liars. But it seems only the shinners line is the one that gets wheeled out.

FF won't go into government with either SF or FG without a vote to change their policy on who with.
They will be holding a vote,so ultimately leaders can express a preference, no preference or rule anything in or out but IF the electorate don't mandate them to carry out that policy in the election result,then they change it to mirror the situation
If parties didn't do that,we would have had a caretaker government since 1982 or no government at all
Such a situation wouldn't stand
That's been the established pattern for 38 years in our democracy
Not a lie,just democracy, a living process

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And you need to learn what 'lying' to the electorate means.

'Build alliances'...how I laughed at that one.

Pretend there is no alliance until it suits your sleeveen quest for power.

You can laugh away,but you still need the alliance unless you have an over all majority-Fact
Lying is not a word appropriate for positions on that prior to knowing an election result that could be a stalemate

Mortelaro wrote: »

You can laugh away,but you still need the alliance unless you have an over all majority-Fact
Lying is not a word appropriate for positions on that prior to knowing an election result that could be a stalemate

Stop...you are putting me into hysterics reading your spin.

'Lying is not a word appropriate' for saying one think and doing the exact opposite.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stop...you are putting me into hysterics reading your spin.

'Lying is not a word appropriate' for saying one think and doing the exact opposite.

It isn't really a sustainable description, No
It devalues the word
A better description would be to say it was misleading
Except it's all moot because practically everyone knows what's possible and what's not and the FG FF marriage was always for now probably the most likely if the numbers added up than one with SF

That's not always going to be the way

For what it's worth, I might even vote for Sinn Féin one day
There are quite a few SF t.d's I'd be very happy to see in government before others tbh
Which is another reason I kind of only see the banter in here as a bit of banter more so than the living document that is government
When it does happen there'll be a negotiated government aswell
Negotiated government's are compromises not extremes

Mortelaro wrote: »

It isn't really a sustainable description, No
It devalues the word
A better description would be to say it was misleading
Except it's all moot because practically everyone knows what's possible and what's not and the FG FF marriage was always for now probably the most likely if the numbers added up than one with SF

That's not always going to be the way

For what it's worth, I might even vote for Sinn Féin one day
There are quite a few SF t.d's I'd be very happy to see in government before others tbh
Which is another reason I kind of only see the banter in here as a bit of banter more so than the living document that is government
When it does happen there'll be a negotiated government aswell
Negotiated government's are compromises not extremes

Mort, just stop. You are devaluing yourself now.
A lie is a lie.

Its gonna be a bad day for FG.

Every day, new reports show the shambles with basically every part of their handling of this

https://twitter.com/indepdubnrth/status/1266157756957982722?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Mort, just stop. You are devaluing yourself now.
A lie is a lie.

Unfortunately, regarding you and others here sadly it's a case of never mind lies...

Hamsterchops

10/10 to Leo and the gang for doing such a great job in the current crisis. Ireland is being held up as an example to the world on how to tackle a pandemic. Top marks to Fine Gael...

I just hope the Irish electorate recognise this, and give them a thumping majority in the next General Election.

Brendan Bendar

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

More people wanted SF to run the country than FG. The votes showed that in the election so stop talking absolute ****e.

The world has changed, the days of propaganda by the media and RTE in Ireland are over, again the election results showed us that

Well then the obvious answer is why are they not in office, busy planting money trees about the place as MLMD said this morning.

That’s why ,my friend.The country knows they would have the gaff bankrupt with no lenders in less that 3 years, and the shadowy figures on the windswept hills would melt away once the unrest and trouble and poverty took hold.

The public are not idiots.

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And you need to learn what 'lying' to the electorate means.

'Build alliances'...how I laughed at that one.

Pretend there is no alliance until it suits your sleeveen quest for power.

Sums up the SF cultists on here.

Anyone taking responsibility and trying to form a Government is on a "sleveen quest for power" - all whilst Sinn Fein are doing their utmost to hide from anything resembling a position of responsibility.

When Mary Lou finally makes a genuine effort to negotiate with other parties will that be a "sleveen quest" as well - or is it suddenly a noble effort because she's from the correct party?

Weasel words and propaganda as always :rolleyes:

Regarding the Health System, The medics are doing anything wrong. It's a lack of another body looking at the overall picture, and counter balancing the medical advice with all other concerns. That is a major failure at government level.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

10/10 to Leo and the gang for doing such a great job in the current crisis. Ireland is being held up as an example to the world on how to tackle a pandemic. Top marks to Fine Gael...

I just hope the Irish electorate recognise this, and give them a thumping majority in the next General Election.

Tell that to all the poor people's familys who died in Public and Private Nursing Homes.

Today in the Dail even more will come out

[Deleted User]

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Its gonna be a bad day for FG.

Every day, new reports show the shambles with basically every part of their handling of this

https://twitter.com/indepdubnrth/status/1266157756957982722?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

I assume that you actually read the letter?

RandomViewer

FG want joint Taoiseach, not happening so election coming

blackwhite wrote: »

Sums up the SF cultists on here.

Anyone taking responsibility and trying to form a Government is on a "sleveen quest for power" - all whilst Sinn Fein are doing their utmost to hide from anything resembling a position of responsibility.

When Mary Lou finally makes a genuine effort to negotiate with other parties will that be a "sleveen quest" as well - or is it suddenly a noble effort because she's from the correct party?

Weasel words and propaganda as always :rolleyes:

When you lie about your intentions then it is nothing more than classic sleeveenism.

What's 'weasel' about calling it what it is, an out and out lie. Even his high moral grounding about SF was all a lie too. He opened the door to them when he thought he had 50 seats.

There is nothing wrong by honestly entering talks to form a government in the event of a hung election.
There is a lot wrong with telling the electorate lies.

Hamsterchops

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Tell that to all the poor people's familys who died in Public and Private Nursing Homes.

Today in the Dail even more will come out

While I agree that we didn't get everything right, there are an awful lot of people alive here due to our Governments quick action. This Covid Pandemic caught the whole world off guard, with the last pandemic being the Spanish flu in 1918.
In the grand scheme of things our government coped admirably.

Do we know how many/ what percentage of nursing homes were affected in Ireland?