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FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

satguy

It seems FG will be very happy to just sit on their hands for 5 years. Would FG voters be happy with this, as it means all those FG votes mean nothing, and do nothing.

Having been in power for 9 years, they did nothing, people have no homes, people still on trollies.

FG may have given some of their rich buddies some tax breaks.

But other than that, they did what FG do best, are their poor hands not numb by now.

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RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

On what planet is Leo about to become a junior minister?

Micky jelly gets first dibs on minister's, Ryan gets 3 including Tanaiste and maybe 2 juniors, Verona gets Transport, Free Dinner back as minister, whatever is left is FGs and as Coveney negotiated he's going to get picking, The reign of Varadker is ending, FG will toss him aside.

Jinglejangle69

I see nursing homes got hit hard in NI too.

But we know we can't point the finger at anyone because the parties up there have absolutely no say in how things are done??

Have I got that right yeah?

Parties voted in don't actually do anything.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The hysterical abuse of those who wish to discuss those mistakes on the relevant FG thread is the issue.

We have now descended into a macabre competition with other countries tragedies in order to not take on board responsibility for mistakes.

See what happened when I mentioned the Nursing Home issue. I was 'rejoicing' in the deaths apparently.

Disgusting debating tbh.

Well, yes, you are using the deaths in an attempt to throw a political jibe.

You have been asked what you would have done differently. Would you have prioritised the supply of PPE to nursing homes instead of hospitals? Would you have transferred nursing staff from hospitals to nursing homes, leaving hospitals short-staffed? Are you excusing the private rich owners of nursing homes, in order to have a dig at Fine Gael?

People died in nursing homes = Fine Gael are bad

That is just a simple slogan you are playing with, that distorts the truth, uses deaths for political purposes and is frankly, unsurprising.

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

This is not going to help FG at all if GE2 is called.

Sure, according to you FG are never going to be in government ever again...
So, they should just all give up their seats and let someone else at it.

blanch152

RandomViewer wrote: »

Micky jelly gets first dibs on minister's, Ryan gets 3 including Tanaiste and maybe 2 juniors, Verona gets Transport, Free Dinner back as minister, whatever is left is FGs and as Coveney negotiated he's going to get picking, The reign of Varadker is ending, FG will toss him aside.

Doesn't make any sense at all.

dundalkfc10

Mortelaro wrote: »

Mine survived and all of their friends
Not as much as a sneeze,what's your point?

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Sorry for your loss. Its certain in hindsight that nursing homes were neglected at the outset.
Let's hope the worst of this is behind us, but it's easy to imagine your anger.

So they have not done an excellent job if the Nursing Homes and Meat Factory's are still in trouble. They still havnt even got them all under control yet

Have they done a good job getting childcare sorted for front line workers?

You stated "Our excellent control of the pandemic must seriously disappoint you"

We have no controlled it in either the above settings, so no we have not controlled it excellently.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, yes, you are using the deaths in an attempt to throw a political jibe.

You have been asked what you would have done differently. Would you have prioritised the supply of PPE to nursing homes instead of hospitals? Would you have transferred nursing staff from hospitals to nursing homes, leaving hospitals short-staffed? Are you excusing the private rich owners of nursing homes, in order to have a dig at Fine Gael?

People died in nursing homes = Fine Gael are bad

That is just a simple slogan you are playing with, that distorts the truth, uses deaths for political purposes and is frankly, unsurprising.

I'd have owned up to the existence of a mistake and instituted an inquiry into what happened.
I would not have gone into a bunker and started claiming I hadn't 'seen the letter'.
And I wouldn't have treated a Dáil committee inquiring into the matter as a courtroom to defend the government as Fergus O'Dowd did yesterday.

Mortelaro

blanch152 wrote: »

That is just a simple slogan you are playing with, that distorts the truth, uses deaths for political purposes and is frankly, unsurprising disgusting debate

Fixed that for you

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'd have owned up to the existence of a mistake and instituted an inquiry into what happened.
I would not have gone into a bunker and started claiming I hadn't 'seen the letter'.
And I wouldn't have treated a Dáil committee inquiring into the matter as a courtroom to defend the government as Fergus O'Dowd did yesterday.

Was it a mistake by government? You have made a judgment call there already, typically without evidence.

Difficult decisions had to be made, that is the reality. Private nursing home owners refused to take responsibility and invest in protecting their clients, hoping that the government would step in. Do you believe that was right? It certainly seems you do.

If the HSE only had enough PPP for hospitals, why should they hand it out to private nursing homes? Especially when that would have resulted in a bigger number of deaths overall? Do you have a position on that? Once again, the ease of being the hurler on the ditch, refusing to take decisions, is shown up again.

Your rush to judgement that there was a mistake, absolutely displays the cynical political motive behind your position on this.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Was it a mistake by government? You have made a judgment call there already, typically without evidence.

Difficult decisions had to be made, that is the reality. Private nursing home owners refused to take responsibility and invest in protecting their clients, hoping that the government would step in. Do you believe that was right? It certainly seems you do.

If the HSE only had enough PPP for hospitals, why should they hand it out to private nursing homes? Especially when that would have resulted in a bigger number of deaths overall? Do you have a position on that? Once again, the ease of being the hurler on the ditch, refusing to take decisions, is shown up again.

Your rush to judgement that there was a mistake, absolutely displays the cynical political motive behind your position on this.

So you are taking Fergus O'Dowd's defence of the government as how it was? What a surprise!

And you also chip in the callous uncaring FGism..'we had to make difficult decisions', as if it was whether to have the pavlova or the cheesecake.

[Deleted User]

efanton wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/timeline-how-covid-19-crisis-in-nursing-homes-unfolds-in-correspondence-1.4263357

This is not going to help FG at all if GE2 is called.

Mr Daly, head of Nursing Homes Ireland (NHI), seems to have been on the ball from the very get go. His first of many letters to the HSE regarding covid sent on February 28th and more or less continuous throughout the month of March.
Numerous requests for information, a protocol or process for discharge of elderly patients from hospital to nursing homes, and requests for assistance in acquiring PPE seem to have been ignored for more than a month as well as a demand that the government stop recruiting staff from nursing homes to work elsewhere.

For all the good FG might have done with regards the Covid crisis they really dropped the ball on the nursing homes. You would have thought it obvious that being the elderly are most vulnerable the nursing homes would have been near the very top of priorities especially when it was pointed out to them through official channels on so many occasions.

Shame really because in every other respect the government has handled the covid crisis pretty well up until this point.
Now there's talk of cutting the supports for those who cannot work.
FG better hope the talks with the Greens succeed in forming a government because it looks like they have created their own stick for other parties to beat them with if another election has to take place.

So, what were the nursing homes doing to help themselves? Most are run as businesses and for profit. Why not spend some of that on vital supplies?
Or are their bad work practices the government’s fault too?

efanton

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I see nursing homes got hit hard in NI too.

But we know we can't point the finger at anyone because the parties up there have absolutely no say in how things are done??

Have I got that right yeah?

Parties voted in don't actually do anything.

The Northern Ireland executive doesnt get to dictate the laws of the UK, nor the budgets set aside for health or the covid crisis either.

But yes questions will need to be asked why more was not done with the budget that was available to them.

You cant blame one single party either because the way the executive is set up all northern Ireland parties are part of it, and all must agree for something to get done. Its unfortunate that it took northern Ireland the time it did to adopt similar measures to what were adopted in the Republic, but to a degree the DUP dragging their heels again wanting to adopt the same policies as the UK hampered that.

efanton

Deleted User wrote: »

So, what were the nursing homes doing to help themselves? Most are run as businesses and for profit. Why not spend some of that on vital supplies?
Or are their bad work practices the government’s fault too?

Maybe because they were unable to purchase those vital supplies.

They did request the government to help them in sourcing PPE equipment, so I dont think it was a case of them not willing to spend money.

dundalkfc10

Deleted User wrote: »

So, what were the nursing homes doing to help themselves? Most are run as businesses and for profit. Why not spend some of that on vital supplies?
Or are their bad work practices the government’s fault too?

They were trying to get in touch with the correct agencies, govt officials since Feb to try get a plan together to source PPE etc. Did they say they wouldnt spend on it?

Their has been outbreaks in Public Nursing Homes aswell, but sure thats prob Mary Lou's fault

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, what were the nursing homes doing to help themselves? Most are run as businesses and for profit. Why not spend some of that on vital supplies?
Or are their bad work practices the government’s fault too?

They raised it crying out for help. Why were their letters or calls not returned? You're theorising while we have actual hard evidence or what did and didn't happen.

Rodney Bathgate

markodaly wrote: »

Well it's like this.

A person picks to post under the name of Leo Varadkar's partner who happens to be gay.
Posts that are vehemently anti-FG and anti-Leo Varadkar.

Have you ever seen someone pick a handler/username of a politician's partner/wife/husband ?? Anyone?

I never have, but it just so happens the first time I've seen it is when its a gay man, who is running the country.

At very very best unconscious homophobia at play and I am being generous here.

Can someone explain the background here please? Sounds strange.

dundalkfc10

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Can someone explain the background here please? Sounds strange.

Somebody who will defend FG to the hilt talking ****e

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

The Northern Ireland executive doesnt get to dictate the laws of the UK, nor the budgets set aside for health or the covid crisis either.

But yes questions will need to be asked why more was not done with the budget that was available to them.

You cant blame one single party either because the way the executive is set up all northern Ireland parties are part of it, and all must agree for something to get done. Its unfortunate that it took northern Ireland the time it did to adopt similar measures to what were adopted in the Republic, but to a degree the DUP dragging their heels again wanting to adopt the same policies as the UK hampered that.

Avoidance of responsibility again. The Executive in the North acted as a collective.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I have no issue, just asking the question.
Activists are usually just that, activists, they don't want anyone getting credit for anything they campaign for.
So I wouldn't be over worried about that.
Of course it would beguile them if they didn't get the credit themselves, be it FG or any other political party that claimed credit.
As I said earlier, it takes great politicians to embark on campaigns that might not affect them personally for the greater good of society.
I know you'll cry populism, but that can be levelled at any politician or party who introduce such things.
The fact you are having a go at Enda, Leo and FG for the fact that they were involved in both of these achievements is Laughable.
It's like they can't do right even when they do right.
Laughable gutter juice Francie, you are usually above this.

You are falling into FG territory here, (water protesters = ISIS etc.).
The vast majority of protesters, who give a movement force, are ordinary every day people. That's how we see the numbers we see in such things.
As for populism. Isn't that what every politician and party bar FG are about? As per the FG lobby on here anyway.
By the by, when Michael D., myself and others marched for equal rights for same sex couples every party bar FF/FG were present.

Mortelaro wrote: »

Their salaries since 1980 would amount to Billions

Apple paid their employees. The employees paid taxes and bought product putting that money into the economy. If employees put money off shore would that be Apple putting money off shore?
How much has Apple pumped into the economy? Employing people is great. Glad they do it, but Apple is receiving services from the workers it pays.

[Deleted User]

smurgen wrote: »

They raised it crying out for help. Why were their letters or calls not returned? You're theorising while we have actual hard evidence or what did and didn't happen.

So, they didn’t have an adequate supply of PPE in store, so expected someone else to provide it for them? Thems the facts.

Rodney Bathgate

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Somebody who will defend FG to the hilt talking ****e

So there wasn’t someone posting using Varadkers partners name?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are taking Fergus O'Dowd's defence of the government as how it was? What a surprise!

And you also chip in the callous uncaring FGism..'we had to make difficult decisions', as if it was whether to have the pavlova or the cheesecake.

Rubbish, I have said already that now is not the time to make judgement.

In your rush to throw stones in glee at the political benefit of nursing home deaths, you are neglecting to ascertain any facts.

It is not callous or uncaring to take difficult decisions, it is callous and uncaring to sit on the sidelines waiting out the crisis. Those who had to actually take the decisions will have had to consider all of the implications. At all times during this crisis, governments, not just ours, were forced into the position of choosing who will die. That is the reality.

Even bringing in the lockdown, they were choosing between saving those who were at risk from Covid-19 as opposed to those who would die thanks to an economic recession. The only certainty from the start of this crisis was that people would die. Using those deaths for political purposes is disgusting, but not the first time in recent living memory that Sinn Fein have had a callous disregard for human life.

James Brown

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Not as much as a certain other party we have heard of......

FG put that behind them, apart from the deaths due to ministerial incompetence.

Mortelo, another chap here moving the FG discussion away to a certain other party. It's desperate but speaks volumes. The FG defence barrel been scrapped to the bottom.

blanch152

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

So there wasn’t someone posting using Varadkers partners name?

Yes, there was. And he posted almost continuous bile against Varadkar and other members of the Fine Gael government.

dundalkfc10

Deleted User wrote: »

So, they didn’t have an adequate supply of PPE in store, so expected someone else to provide it for them? Thems the facts.

Ah so its ok that they were ignored for a month or so.

They wanted help in sourcing it, as per the letters

Hope none your family are in a nursing home or your not in one yourself in a few years.

Shefwedfan

smurgen wrote: »

They raised it crying out for help. Why were their letters or calls not returned? You're theorising while we have actual hard evidence or what did and didn't happen.

Sending letters and sitting back saying "that's all I can do" is not really helping is it?

A lot of passing the buck goes on in Ireland. Seems like this happened here. So I wrote a letter then thats my job done.

Every person in Ireland knew to wear facemasks, that the disease was transfered via touch. I am not sure where I seen but someone mentioned the staff didn't know to change gloves from one person to another? come on now. Why did they need the HSE to tell them that?

I seen people before the lockdown even happened coming out of a shop, putting away the trolley and throwing gloves out into a bin. Just random people. Are we saying that the Nursing Home needed the HSE to tell them to do that?

This looks like a pass the buck job.

I am not saying FG haven't maybe made an error, but sitting back and waiting for someoen to hold your hand in a middle of a crisis seems a bit odd. They are supposed to be trained professionals

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, there was. And he posted almost continuous bile against Varadkar and other members of the Fine Gael government.

That's exactly it, when they know they are wrong. They just say oh what about Sinn Fein

dundalkfc10

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sending letters and sitting back saying "that's all I can do" is not really helping is it?

A lot of passing the buck goes on in Ireland. Seems like this happened here. So I wrote a letter then thats my job done.

Every person in Ireland knew to wear facemasks, that the disease was transfered via touch. I am not sure where I seen but someone mentioned the staff didn't know to change gloves from one person to another? come on now. Why did they need the HSE to tell them that?

I seen people before the lockdown even happened coming out of a shop, putting away the trolley and throwing gloves out into a bin. Just random people. Are we saying that the Nursing Home needed the HSE to tell them to do that?

This looks like a pass the buck job.

I am not saying FG haven't maybe made an error, but sitting back and waiting for someoen to hold your hand in a middle of a crisis seems a bit odd. They are supposed to be trained professionals

So what about the issue in the Public Nursing Homes, Meat Factorys?

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

So what about the issue in the Public Nursing Homes, Meat Factorys?

Does Fine Gael own the meat factories now, too?

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Does Fine Gael own the meat factories now, too?

Public Nursing Homes? Pick out half the question why dont you ffs