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* Motors chat - round 12 *

[Deleted User]

This thread is for motoring topics which you feel are not worthy of starting a new thread for, banter from a meet or general motoring related chit chat.

Keep it clean, be nice and helpful.

Motors charter applies.

Round 11 is HERE

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Tazzimus

colm_mcm wrote: »

Expand..

Merc and BMW would be the premium brands.
I'd put Audi a tier or so below them, in the same bracket as VW.

They may be trying to market themselves as premium, but they've still a ways to go.

colm_mcm

What makes a car premium?

Toyotafanboi

salonfire wrote: »

180k is 111,000 miles in old money. Are we going back to the days where we have to be wary of anything over 100,000 miles as potential money pits.

It's amazing what people are willing to put up with to have a premium brand sitting on the driveway to coo over.

To me, the amazing thing is that people now just expect consumer goods to last absolutely flawlessly, for ever and ever without exception now and if it every gives any jip down the line, the manufacturer is always expected to pick up the pieces.

You cant do right for doing wrong, Audi are basically footing the bill on this and it's still unacceptable apparently.

Years ago, as you say if your car has 100k miles on it, which is a good bit of travelling in fairness and something broke, you just went and got it fixed. Why is that we do not want to pay to fix our own things anymore?

I know theres an expectation that things should last a certain time frame but I think 6+ years and 110k miles is getting to a point where you cant really blame someone else anymore. Stuff breaks and wears out with use from time to time unfortunately.

Tazzimus wrote: »

Merc and BMW would be the premium brands.
I'd put Audi a tier or so below them, in the same bracket as VW.

They may be trying to market themselves as premium, but they've still a ways to go.

That's mad how you came up with that. So VW and Audi are on a level pegging? Have you a new model of wither recently?

CIP4

salonfire wrote: »

This isn't the first problem with the car from what I can make out so it was younger when problems started to arise.

180k is 111,000 miles in old money. Are we going back to the days where we have to be wary of anything over 100,000 miles as potential money pits.

It's amazing what people are willing to put up with to have a premium brand sitting on the driveway to coo over.

Our house has an Auris that is older and with more miles on it that never missed a beat. I'd be pissed if mechanical problems started on it even now.

Well he has it two years there was around 70K miles on it when he got it. Its the first thing that's gone wrong with it since he got it. Other than this its just been servicing/tyres really.

I had a 2009 A4 in 2016 but we won't talk about that can't bring up those memories again. That was different though to other cars in the fact it was cursed :pac:

Infairness cars made more recently are extremely complex compared to what they were 15 years ago. More components is always going to mean a certain amount of issues sh!t happens.

punisher5112

CIP4 wrote: »

Well he has it two years there was around 70K miles on it when he got it. Its the first thing that's gone wrong with it since he got it. Other than this its just been servicing/tyres really.

I had a 2009 A4 in 2016 but we won't talk about that can't bring up those memories again. That was different though to other cars in the fact it was cursed :pac:

Infairness cars made more recently are extremely complex compared to what they were 15 years ago. More components is always going to mean a certain amount of issues sh!t happens.

Should have bought a starlet....

colm_mcm

Audi should start using the Renault 1.5 dci engine in their cars, or start selling vans.

Sexual Chocolate

Tazzimus wrote: »

Merc and BMW would be the premium brands.
I'd put Audi a tier or so below them, in the same bracket as VW.

They may be trying to market themselves as premium, but they've still a ways to go.

In fairness these days I would look at Audi as an equal to BMW and Mercedes, especially in the last 10 years with the A5, A6 and so on but that's just me.

Tazzimus

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That's mad how you came up with that. So VW and Audi are on a level pegging? Have you a new model of wither recently?

Not the latest models, which are awful looking, but driven 2016-2017 ones.
I'm not saying they're not nice to be in, I'd just have them a step below Merc or BMW. Seemingly that's just me though.

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

In fairness these days I would look at Audi as an equal to BMW and Mercedes, especially in the last 10 years with the A5, A6 and so on but that's just me.

Granted, I haven't driven an A8 or the likes to see what their top end offerings are like, A6 is top one so far. They have come on a lot as you said, but for me they're just not quite at that point yet.
They'll probably be more widely classed as premium or luxury soon enough if they keep on the current path, but I still see them as a slightly posher VW. Or a VW in drag, as I heard someone describe them.

PsychoPete

Audi are lacking in the rebranding of Kangoos and Navaras department, that's where Merc are overtaking them as a premium brand

Mickiemcfist

Tazzimus wrote: »

Not the latest models, which are awful looking, but driven 2016-2017 ones.
I'm not saying they're not nice to be in, I'd just have them a step below Merc or BMW. Seemingly that's just me though.

Granted, I haven't driven an A8 or the likes to see what their top end offerings are like, A6 is top one so far. They have come on a lot as you said, but for me they're just not quite at that point yet.
They'll probably be more widely classed as premium or luxury soon enough if they keep on the current path, but I still see them as a slightly posher VW. Or a VW in drag, as I heard someone describe them.

That's like saying a Ferrari is just a tarted up Fiat. I've never owned an Audi, nor do I particularly like the look of them, I'd be more of a BMW fan. You just don't personally like them, which is different to them being in a different category to BMW or Merc, both of which have made (or bought) some woeful engines & cars recently.

I don't like Man United, so they're not in the premier league in my opinion.

[Deleted User]

Whatever about peoples' views on where Audi stand, one thing is for sure - they seem to be a lot more reliable than BMW....and that's coming from a BMW fan!

Tazzimus

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

That's like saying a Ferrari is just a tarted up Fiat.

No, it's really not. An A3 is practically a Golf. A Multipla is not a 458.

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I've never owned an Audi, nor do I particularly like the look of them, I'd be more of a BMW fan. You just don't personally like them, which is different to them being in a different category to BMW or Merc, both of which have made (or bought) some woeful engines & cars recently.

I don't like Man United, so they're not in the premier league in my opinion.

Not once did I say I don't like them, I actually like them a lot. I actually prefer them to Merc or BMW for the most part, I just don't think they're in the same bracket yet, although I will admit that gap keeps getting smaller and they're not far off these days.

[Deleted User]

... of course, they all have lovely bottoms.

tossy

Tazzimus wrote: »

No, it's really not. An A3 is practically a Golf. ..

If you've ever done something like change a window regulator on a golf and A3 from the same era you'd realise they are far from being the same car in terms of build quality and how they are bolted together.

An A3 isn't premium the way a CLA with a Renault engine isn't premium, but an A6, A8 is as premium as a 5 or 7 - Looks and interior design are subjective but they are all built to a similar standard.

selectamatic

A3's are girls cars...

colm_mcm

selectamatic wrote: »

A3's are girls cars...

Premium girls.

CIP4

Brought my Golf to get serviced this morning. Was mayhem at the dealers the service department was flat out so ended up being delayed but got it done anyway. When I was dropping in the key the guy said to me oh right this is the third service at 45K km in the servicing plan I thought nothing of it .

Car was finished went to pick it up was chatting to the service guy he then sterilised the key and gave it back to me and said have a nice day. So I said oh where do I pay and got a very confused look back saying the car had a service pack which I clearly didn't know about by the fact I didn't know he started to doubt himself and double checked but the computer confirmed it has it. I didnt think they were transferable between owners and also didn't even think they were a thing on GTI/R models.

Long story short after a little confusion I am up €169 today

ELM327

colm_mcm wrote: »

Premium girls.

PCP financed through onlyfans?

Sexual Chocolate

ELM327 wrote: »

PCP financed through onlyfans?

Wouldn't need pcp with how much some of them make.

eljono

Tazzimus wrote: »

No, it's really not. An A3 is practically a Golf. A Multipla is not a 458.

Not once did I say I don't like them, I actually like them a lot. I actually prefer them to Merc or BMW for the most part, I just don't think they're in the same bracket yet, although I will admit that gap keeps getting smaller and they're not far off these days.

I once had a tour of the Audi factory outside Brussels where they build the A1 model. The tourguide shared some insights into how manufacturing processes differ between the VAG brands. Whilst many cars in the group share components, a lot of the manufacturing process boils down to manufacturing tolerances.

With Audi, the premium brand in the VAG group, the manufacturing tolerances are lower than VW, whose tolerances are in turn lower than Skoda and Seat - the two budget brands in the group. I don't remember exactly what these figures were but something along the line of with all Audi models, there is a tolerance of 0.3mm in panel and interior gaps, then with VW it would be 0.6mm and with Skoda/Seat 1mm. Don't quote me on this figure though, I could be way off!

As well as using more premium looking and feeling components and materials in their cabins than VW, the higher attention to detail and quality in the manufacturing process places Audi in the premium tier of the marketplace and helps distinguish itself from sister company VW.

I 100% consider Audi, BMW and Mercedes to be comparable brands, as would pretty much every car magazine, journalist and YouTuber worth their salt. You don’t see new 5-series and E-Class models being compared to the Passat, you see them compared to the A6.

In response to "An A3 is practically a Golf" - you're right that they share a lot of tech and engineering, but having owned a current-gen A3 (2013) and now owning a Mk7 Golf (2016), I can tell you first hand that the A3 felt like a more premium product. The cabin was very well built and designed, definitely a level up on the Golf imo. However I never gelled with the A3, didn't like how it drove, but that's a whole different post...

ELM327

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Wouldn't need pcp with how much some of them make.

I heard they got a good deal on VAG cars

Dartz

eljono wrote: »

Differences in VAG tightness tolerances

If you buy a SEAT it's 'fine' at first but it really makes you regret not spending the little bit extra and buying a Skoda. So next time you buy a Skoda.

If you buy a Skoda it's 'fine'at first but it really makes you regret not spending the little bit extra and buying a Volkswagen. So next time you buy a Volkswagen.

If you buy a Volkswagen it's 'fine'at first but it really makes you regret not spending the little bit extra and buying an Audi. So next time you buy an Audi

If you buy a Audi it's 'fine'at first but it really makes you regret not spending the little bit extra and buying a better Audi.

It's the perfect marketing strategy. Every car is made to make you feel just a little bit **** that you couldn't afford the next one up in the range.

Look what features you could have had......

eljono

Surely a discussion around VAG tightness is better suited to A.H? :pac:

You make a good point though, and in reality you do see that sequence of events often happen, people moving "up" within the VAG family.

CIP4

I have owned 2 Golfs, 2 A4s and a Leon. The Audi has the best interior quality by a mile and finish overall is great even under the bonnet it is finished a lot better than the others. But it’s really only in recent years the Audi interiors have stepped up. VW is definitely in the middle on build quality. SEAT are at the bottom lacking the likes of independent rear suspension on the standard Leon Models which the Golf has a standard. However I do still think they are fairly decent And by no means bad build quality wise and the Leon is a nice looking car and has some nice design features.

For me Audi would win everytime as being the best VAG brand. The biggest downside is the lack of extras/Features for the cost everything is an option. The virtual Cockpit is an option on nearly all New Audi still ffs yet they were one of the first to have it. It’s standard on a lot of VW models at this stage.

RyanMGF

The Volkswagen group are experts in having shared platforms and shared technologies across all of their brands and being able to market them in a way that one badge is distinct from the others in pricing, perceived status and quality.

Obviously Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti & Lamborghini are a totally different story - as are the likes of the RS product from Audi and yes, as a sweeping statement an Audi will feel better than an equivalent VW, which will in turn feel better than a Seat or Skoda, but honestly - who cares, the cars are all of a similar quality and will all likely last just as long as each other. An A3 isn’t better to the degree of its price difference between a Golf, for example.

Anybody who thinks their 4-cylinder diesel FWD Audi delivers a premium driving experience is, unfortunately for them, terribly misguided.

Ryath

CIP4 wrote: »

. VW is definitely in the middle on build quality. SEAT are at the bottom lacking the likes of independent rear suspension on the standard Leon Models which the Golf has a standard.

Golfs with under 150bhp don't get independent rear suspension either, anything with 150 and above gets it. In the preface lift Mk3 Leon they didn't get it until over 150 so the 1.4 tsi and 2.0 tdi 150 didn't have it. It was part of the reason there was a big enough jump in price to the 184. The face lift 1.5tsi 150 does though. Not sure about the facelift diesel 2.0 150.

CIP4

Ryath wrote: »

Golfs with under 150bhp don't get independent rear suspension either, anything with 150 and above gets it. In the preface lift Mk3 Leon they didn't get it until over 150 so the 1.4 tsi and 2.0 tdi 150 didn't have it. It was part of the reason there was a big enough jump in price to the 184. The face lift 1.5tsi 150 does though. Not sure about the facelift diesel 2.0 150.

I thought all the mk7 golfs have rear independent suspension and it was the Leon that was only models over 150Bhp that got it.

Ryath

CIP4 wrote: »

I thought all the mk7 golfs have rear independent suspension and it was the Leon that was only models over 150Bhp that got it.

Sorry was actually lower 1.4tsi 122ps up had them. Think it may have varied though over the years. Pretty sure the estate version all had independent rear suspension.

Twist beam rear axle (1.2 litre TSI 85 PS, 1.2 litre TSI 105 PS, 1.6 litre TDI 90 PS, 1.6 litre TDI 105 PS, 1.6 litre TDI 110 PS)

– Multilink rear axle (1.4 litre TSI 122 PS, 1.4 litre TSI ACT 140 PS, 2.0 litre TSI 220 PS, 2.0 litre TSI 230 PS, 2.0 litre TDI 150 PS,
2.0 litre TDI 184 PS)

Leonard Hofstadter

The A3 is the same since they switched to using the MQB platform, too.

Then again, Mercedes also use pre-historic suspension on most versions of the A-class since the latest model came out, Ford only keeps proper suspension on go-faster versions of the Focus (the earliest 1.5 petrols had it, but then they decided to cut corners and drop it on this engine); meanwhile the decidedly non-premium Toyota uses fully independent rear suspension on its competitor - even on the cheapest model. I believe Hyundai and Kia still do on their rivals, too, even for the cheapest model.

ELM327

eljono wrote: »

Surely a discussion around VAG tightness is better suited to A.H? :pac:

You make a good point though, and in reality you do see that sequence of events often happen, people moving "up" within the VAG family.

It's definitely related to the onlyfans content