M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Reputable Rog wrote: »

North West..... just saying. Apparently the demand wasn’t there to justify it, only 22,000 cars a day between Blarney and Blackpool.

When I say North East I’m referrring to Ballyvolane/Mayfield etc which is closer again . “Only” 22,000 cars? :rolleyes:

Reputable Rog wrote: »

North West..... just saying. Apparently the demand wasn’t there to justify it, only 22,000 cars a day between Blarney and Blackpool.

When I say North East I’m referrring to Ballyvolabe/Mayfield etc. “Only” 22,000 cars? :rolleyes:

Reputable Rog

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Agree on Blackash, the Blarney area is well served by double deckers on the 215. Lots of land in the North East of the city also, where the Sunbeam once stood in Blackpool would have been a fine sized plot of land as well but it is zoned for housing.

North West..... just saying. Apparently the demand wasn’t there to justify it, only 22,000 cars a day between Blarney and Blackpool.

Isambard wrote: »

the rail station in Cork is quite a trek from, perhaps a bus p+r would be more popular. The Blackash one is quite accessible on the quays

Agree on Blackash, the Blarney area is well served by double deckers on the 215. Lots of land in the North East of the city also, where the Sunbeam once stood in Blackpool would have been a fine sized plot of land as well but it is zoned for housing.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

There's enough room in Blarney Business Park to build a P&R, unsure as to why one hasn't happened 16 years after Blackash opened.

the rail station in Cork is quite a trek from, perhaps a bus p+r would be more popular. The Blackash one is quite accessible on the quays

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Important to not be AGAINST rail upgrades on the M20 corridor.
Rail upgrades on the M20 corridor would be a great thing. Even if it was just upgrades of the Limerick Junction routing.

But rail alone will not remove the need for the M20. The M20 is needed right now.
A Blarney P&R for instance is also needed right now. The two should be progressed sympathetically of one another, not exclusively of one another.

There's enough room in Blarney Business Park to build a P&R, unsure as to why one hasn't happened 16 years after Blackash opened.

hans aus dtschl

Important to not be AGAINST rail upgrades on the M20 corridor.
Rail upgrades on the M20 corridor would be a great thing. Even if it was just upgrades of the Limerick Junction routing.

But rail alone will not remove the need for the M20. The M20 is needed right now.
A Blarney P&R for instance is also needed right now. The two should be progressed sympathetically of one another, not exclusively of one another.

Limerick74

mdmix wrote: »

for the price of the m20, you could build a direct train line from cork to limerick (and on to Galway) and could build urban rail in both cities. There would probably be enough money left to make any necessary improvements to the n20.

Can you provide any details of your cost estimates for the road and rail solutions?

Sam Russell

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense. Just doing up the Ennis to Athenry line on it's current alignment over a decade ago cost €150m. A new train line would require a completely new alignment that would have to be a lot straighter than any road limiting the route and increasing the cost/ It would cost a lot more than the €1bn cost mooted for the M20.

The rolling stock does not come cheap either. I think it would be about €10 million per 8 coach train - and I would think 8 trains would be needed, so about €80 million just for the trains. Then add in the cost of a depot, so not much change from €100 million. Add the cost of electrification as it would be stupid not to electrify a new rail line.

Rail will not compete with the M20 - at least not for a long time.

donvito99

If you were to follow a 'direct' existing alignment i.e. via Patrickswell, the service would be slow, singletrack, not inexpensive and only serve those who want to go betweek Cork and Limerick city centre or those travelling from stations on the line to other stations.

A road is far more flexible and that is what counts in rural Ireland, in my view.

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

for the price of the m20, you could build a direct train line from cork to limerick (and on to Galway) and could build urban rail in both cities. There would probably be enough money left to make any necessary improvements to the n20.

Complete and utter nonsense. Just doing up the Ennis to Athenry line on it's current alignment over a decade ago cost €150m. A new train line would require a completely new alignment that would have to be a lot straighter than any road limiting the route and increasing the cost/ It would cost a lot more than the €1bn cost mooted for the M20.

mdmix

for the price of the m20, you could build a direct train line from cork to limerick (and on to Galway) and could build urban rail in both cities. There would probably be enough money left to make any necessary improvements to the n20.

hans aus dtschl

Isambard wrote: »

which bit of "improve the interchangability" passed you by? (They've already built a new platform.)

I don't think you're responding to what I wrote. I'm just saying that I understand people whose position is "we need a direct train to Limerick": no more no less.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If it kills the bus service it will kill the rail service. As Dick Cheney it an unknown known. There is virtually Zero freight on IA except from Galmoy mine. There was thinking that if the peat burning station changed to Biomass there would be a market there but its too expensive to transport air.

The M20 along with Bus connect ( and similar plans for Cork in the short term as well as Limerick and Galway medium term) are the most vital infrastructure projects need at present. The flawed thinking that a direct railway service, or a motorway via Tipperary will solve the traffic problems on that corridor is based on the assumption that the vast majority of the traffic is end to end

the bus service is private the rail service isn't.

You're on the money with the end to end comment. The M20 is more about traffic to and from the two cities , not traffic between them.

marno21

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Fastest vaccine ever was 5years

It’s fair to say there’s never been a time in history with 156 vaccines in development for a single disease with effectively unlimited funding from governments and philanthropic organisations

Plus an exercise like this has never been conducted in times of such advanced medical and scientific knowledge

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Covid 19 crisis isn't going to last for ever and people will still a fast cheap way to travel between the cities and trains are not going to be the answer. Some bus companies might not survive the crisis, but other will sping up to meet the huge demand.

Fastest vaccine ever was 5years

Cookiemunster

Isambard wrote: »

I agree but will Covid19 kill the bus service? 15 to 20 on a bus isn't going to pay the costs.

The Covid 19 crisis isn't going to last for ever and people will still a fast cheap way to travel between the cities and trains are not going to be the answer. Some bus companies might not survive the crisis, but other will sping up to meet the huge demand.

Isambard wrote: »

I agree but will Covid19 kill the bus service? 15 to 20 on a bus isn't going to pay the costs.

The M20 is needed for our freight needs.There is zero freight on rail in Munster and opening a link from Charleville to Patrickswell will not change that. In any case it will be decades before we'd have money to invest in such a project

If it kills the bus service it will kill the rail service. As Dick Cheney it an unknown known. There is virtually Zero freight on IA except from Galmoy mine. There was thinking that if the peat burning station changed to Biomass there would be a market there but its too expensive to transport air.

The M20 along with Bus connect ( and similar plans for Cork in the short term as well as Limerick and Galway medium term) are the most vital infrastructure projects need at present. The flawed thinking that a direct railway service, or a motorway via Tipperary will solve the traffic problems on that corridor is based on the assumption that the vast majority of the traffic is end to end

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The simple answer is yes. The whole flaw with the argument for rail us that there is a demand for it. If we look at the Limerick Dublin route more people travel on busses than on trains. The reason is frequency of service and cost. Cork-Limerick and Limerick-Galway are not long journeys. Limerick-Galway is under an hour on a bus, if the M20 was in place Cork-Galway would be a sub two hour direct journey, at present it is a 2.5 hour journey

Trains cannot compete on frequency because the population base for demand is not there

I agree but will Covid19 kill the bus service? 15 to 20 on a bus isn't going to pay the costs.

The M20 is needed for our freight needs.There is zero freight on rail in Munster and opening a link from Charleville to Patrickswell will not change that. In any case it will be decades before we'd have money to invest in such a project

prunudo wrote: »

Surely a fast comfortable inter city bus service using the new motorway will be a much more cost efficient than a new rail line.

The simple answer is yes. The whole flaw with the argument for rail us that there is a demand for it. If we look at the Limerick Dublin route more people travel on busses than on trains. The reason is frequency of service and cost. Cork-Limerick and Limerick-Galway are not long journeys. Limerick-Galway is under an hour on a bus, if the M20 was in place Cork-Galway would be a sub two hour direct journey, at present it is a 2.5 hour journey

Trains cannot compete on frequency because the population base for demand is not there

prunudo

Surely a fast comfortable inter city bus service using the new motorway will be a much more cost efficient than a new rail line.

Calina

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Hopefully a new rail corridor will be included. Would love a direct train from Cork to Limerick and onto Galway.

Not if it delays the M20 itself.

Cookiemunster

Hogzy wrote: »

Yet another fatal collision on the N20. This time between Mallow and Buttevant according to AA Roadwatch

It's at Hynes cross between Croom and Charleville. A few kms North of O'Rourkes Cross. https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/road-notices/n20-closed-diversions-place

JamesBond2010

Hogzy wrote: »

Yet another fatal collision on the N20. This time between Mallow and Buttevant according to AA Roadwatch

wasnt mallow and buttevant it was this afternoon on the N20 near Lackanagrour in Limerick

Hogzy

Yet another fatal collision on the N20. This time between Mallow and Buttevant according to AA Roadwatch

Mc Love

Thats because at the moment - it's faster by car. Fair enough connections out to the M50 or beyond out by Naas would find more people commuting by car.

Mc Love wrote: »

If I had a choice I'd rather take the train to Cork or Dublin if I was visiting the city center but the car is king at the moment in terms of time it takes to get there. The line is still in place in some parts - it is doable and it isnt a green agenda. PT should be king in the country and it once was.

Yes if we all had the choice we would travel by train,...........but you then ask yourself why do more people travel to Dublin by Bus than by train.

I have a friend that WFH, he goes from a village outside Limerick to Dublin once a week. He is up at 5.30, drives into the station, grabs a coffee and onto the train arrives in Dublin's n around 9 I think and gets a taxi to the office he is going to(it would be two bus public transport journeys otherwise. He arrives in the office at about 9.30 and stays for the day and grabs a coffee taxi agsin in the evening to get to the railway station.

Now all grand and hunkey dorey his employer picks up his taxi and train fares. But he admits that if the office was.near the M50 he end up driving.

betistuc

Whenever railways are discussed, I'm always reminded of the Percy French song, "Are you right there Michael". It should be
Irish Rail's anthem.

Mc Love wrote: »

That's like saying I dont understand why they are building the M20 when they could easily go via the M8 and improve the interchangability there.

it's a good quip but short on reality seeing as the line is already there and needs no building.