Interested Observer wrote: » Maybe you can explain. I have a work phone and a work laptop, and a personal phone and a personal PC&Laptop. I do all my work on the work devices, in fact I'd get in serious trouble if I did any work on a non-work computer. How will my employer see anything on the personal devices?
KyussB wrote: » You control network access to prevent data breaches - you don't spy on everything your employees do at home. Invading the privacy of people in their own home, on their own devices - is the opposite of upholding the GDPR - it's a breach of privacy. Everyone reading this should be recognizing that - along with employers making you all contractors who have to purchase your own equipment to work from home - there are now at least half a dozen posters justifying putting spyware on your home devices, to literally keep an eye on you in your own home... This is very quickly becoming the new normal - there is very little time to pushback against it. You will never regain that privacy again, once this becomes the norm. Anyone with network access to your home devices - has full access to your home network, and can trivially access all your home devices - unless you happen to be a network engineer, smart enough to secure off everything yourself.
ELM327 wrote: » No one is going to be using personal devices for work
MOH wrote: » If all their staff are working remotely anyway, why wouldn't companies just outsource your job to countries with a cheaper workforce, instead of funding your 3 homes?
iQuestion wrote: » Most of multinational companies have local staff quotas agreements with the Irish government.
Ballso wrote: » Really? BYOD has been a thing for ages. Companies don't care what device you use to access their systems in my experience.
Rodney Bathgate wrote: » Some do, some don’t. To say ‘companies don’t care’ is inaccurate.
KyussB wrote: » You will be a contractor having to fund your own work equipment shortly - your personal devices become your work devices. Anything that is allowed access to your home network, can trivially access almost everything else on your home network - you give a shithead manager with passable knowledge of network scanning and pen testing, access to a computer on your network, through a VPN that mandatorily installs corporate spyware, and they can snoop on everything, both personal and work. This is going to become formalized soon, with corporate networking tools explicitly for scanning/accessing your home network. Do you think that is a good idea? (Hint: No - it is fucking Orwellian and incredibly stupid idea - which is about to become the norm)
Biker79 wrote: » Respectfully, you don't seem to understand how remote access systems work, or what organisations IT concerns are. WFH as a possible cost reduction/ job devaluation exercise, is a different thing altogether. On that, I would agree with your concerns. But I'm guessing from noises the government have made in recent days, that WFH will be supported by proper legislation soon enough.
Ballso wrote: » It's not inaccurate, I do a lot of work in the banking sector and access systems remotely every day. They are all Citrix VDI on any device you like.
KyussB wrote: » I work specifically with networking programming and security - I know my stuff fairly well, thanks. Giving anyone access to your home network like that, let alone your personal devices, is fucking scary and insane.
Rodney Bathgate wrote: » Not every company, so not accurate.
Ballso wrote: » I didn't say every company, Jesus. BYOD is extremely common in large organisations in my experience.
Just4This wrote: » *snip to reduce length*
snoopboggybog wrote: » And how are these peoplelogging in? My guess through Citrix or something similar? Or even just a web browser into Azure?
Rodney Bathgate wrote: » You said ‘companies don’t care’. I know plenty that do care. Pretty basic logic to figure out that your statement is NOT accurate.
Ballso wrote: » Ok chief, you win the internet well done.
KyussB wrote: » Take all of the logic about corporate networks that you just applied, and reverse it around and apply it to the employee's home network. Would you let an employee install a spyware tool on your corporate network, able to snoop on anything they like across the whole network, and fuck around with common backdoors/exploits to gain access to other systems? (it's amazing how insecure everyday network-connected household devices are, after all...) No. No you wouldn't. So I don't see any good reason, why an employee should ever trust a company with access to their home network, with exactly the same degree of risk and problems! Our personal privacy and data/technical privacy is not up for sale, thanks - people should tell any corporation that wants to gain that level of surveillence over their personal lives and stuff, to fuck off - and should force the government to make it explicitly illegal. Everyone out there has heard of other peoples experiences with invasive, bullying, manipulative managers (or has had the misfortunate to deal with this themselves), and they know full well how dangerous it is to let anyone like that have access to their home network, and be able to spy on them and monitor or interfere with their stuff (whether that be work or personal), and do anything they like pretty much. That is insane. That is as much asking for trouble at a personal/employee level, as it is for a corporation to have unsecured networks. I mean did you miss all the discussion just a short bit ago, of people routinely being fired for snooping on shit they shouldn't have been? It's a routine occurrance - it's not just at risk of happening, it's guaranteed to happen. Imagine if you're someone like McCabe, or e.g. Jonathan Sugarman would be a more appropriate example (worked in a bank and blew the whistle on regulatory breaches) - a whistleblower like the latter, working from home, would be fully open to reprisals from e.g. their employers accessing their personal devices on the home network (there is an abundance of black-hat tools free to purchase out there that can access pretty much any OS over the network), in order to plant incriminating data (e.g. child porn) on the persons computer, to discredit them etc.. If the type of work you're providing involves sensitive data to such an extent that you'd even contemplate the onerous and Orwellian intrusion of privacy that you're talking about - then it must not be work done from home, it has to be done from the office, or done in the cloud (and cloud-hosted work environments, are a perfectly reasonable alternative, which solves a lot of the problems - but certainly not all of them). I think you'll find that people do have a problem with the tracking from Google/Apple etc. - and that they very much don't want their employers being able to track them to an even greater intrusive degree.
snoopboggybog wrote: » I work in IT and seriously you don't have a clue of what you are talking about. There are solutions available for users to work off their own personal laptops which are not intrusive on their home computer in any what way, shape or form and are fully secure and correspond to GDPR compliance. One example would be Citrix. You cannot copy any company data off what you login into to your own personal device. We can monitor Citrix from our end. The company can disable your access in a second. Then the most common method is the company gives you a laptop which is encrypted connected to their backend systems using a VPN. Your access to systems is generally based around your AD account which can be disabled in a second.
Rodney Bathgate wrote: » Why can you not just admit that your post was not accurate? Why fight a losing battle?
snoopboggybog wrote: » How does that work through Citrix? I don't really think you understand how remote access works on personal devices.
Ballso wrote: » Companies don't care what device you use to access their systems in my experience. Read the sentence again, slowly. Try not lose focus before the last three words.
KyussB wrote: » Citrix is not what's being discussed - employers want tracking software on peoples WFH equipment, and in many cases personal equipment - cloud hosted workspaces are a related issue, but not with the same level of personal invasiveness.
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