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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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Dayor Knight

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times on 15th of August last year, Irish hospital consultants earn 28% more than their UK counterparts.

God almighty, have you nothing better to do?

addaword

Dayor Knight wrote: »

God almighty, have you nothing better to do?

I was replying to the previous poster, whose comment was about consultants pay.
You can easily google Itish hospital consultants pay, the Irish Times headline comes up on page 1.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times on 15th of August last year, Irish hospital consultants earn 28% more than their UK counterparts.

You stated that earlier without a link and ignored the last poster who provided you with a link that showed its not actually the case. Are you just getting confused or just ignoring posters who provide links showing the fact that you might be wrong?

In relation to your previous comment regarding teachers giving grinds and being tax dodgers; I'm sure some probably do and others declare it.

addaword

As I said,
You can easily google Irish hospital consultants pay, the Irish Times headline comes up on page 1

TheDavester

smelly sock wrote: »

Giving people 350 a week for doing nothing doesnt help. The bank bailout and tax incentives etc for global multinationals aswell as PS pay amd pension should also be looked at and tackled.

did apple pay what the eu told them to?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

addaword wrote: »

Actually a NZ dollar is 0.56 euro, so the average salary of 77k in New Zealand is actually more than average salary here, which is not 46k.

I see from Google where you got that figure, but I need to point out that that $77,000 NZD is not an average salary in New Zealand, it is definitely less than that. That figure seems to be based on people entering their salaries on the site and taking a crude average. At any rate, the same site has Ireland's average higher than NZ's to the tune of almost $10k USD.

addaword

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

I see from Google where you got that figure, but I need to point out that that $77,000 NZD is not an average salary in New Zealand, it is definitely less than that. That figure seems to be based on people entering their salaries on the site and taking a crude average. At any rate, the same site has Ireland's average higher than NZ's to the tune of almost $10k USD.

According to the New Zealand website
ssc.govt.nz
Average annual salary in the Public Service in New Zealand in 2018 was $77,900

With the exchange rate of 1 nz dollar = 0.56 euro, that is €43,546 , which is considerably less than our own cso figure of average public sector salary here of €50k.

onrail wrote: »

My experience there was that cost of living in NZ was similar (if not higher)

That makes our own public sector average pay look very high so.

Charles Babbage wrote: »

NZ is a less prosperous country and salaries are lower there.

I think if our government debt is 200 billion and increasing by another 30 billion this year, it is us who is less prosperous. Their government debt is less than half ours, as I understand it. Our government spending is unsustainable.

yenom

addaword wrote: »

Plenty of money is wasted by the taxpayer to some at the top all right. The salary of the president of Ireland is 249,000. The salary of the president (their prime minister) of Spain, a much larger country, is only 82,000. Google it if you want.

TDs don't control their own wages. It's linked to a Principle Officer in the civil service. It's an anti corruption thing.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

addaword wrote: »

According to the New Zealand website
ssc.govt.nz
Average annual salary in the Public Service in New Zealand in 2018 was $77,900

With the exchange rate of 1 nz dollar = 0.56 euro, that is €43,546 , which is considerably less than our own cso figure of average public sector salary here of €50k.

That makes our own public sector average pay look very high so.

I think if our government debt is 200 billion and increasing by another 30 billion this year, it is us who is less prosperous. Their government debt is less than half ours, as I understand it. Our government spending is unsustainable.

Ah, my apologies, I thought you were talking about average across the NZ workforce for some reason.

Had a look at that site and in 2019 the average had risen to $81,300, which is a little over €45k. Less than five grand of a pay difference isn't much, all things considered, especially when you factor in lower taxes in New Zealand.

Also, just thought this was an interesting juxtaposition of how the Irish and NZ Governments and public look at their own employees https://ssc.govt.nz/spirit-of-service/open-letter-to-public-servants/

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

It is an excuse when you use it as a reason the poor teachers do not teach their kids properly during the lockdown.

Except that's not what I said. I didn't mention teaching at all actually. You might want to go back and read what I said again.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

What a silly question. If the country gets back in check, it will be positive for all of us in the long run.

Good to hear that it will be positive for all of us. Presumably you would be in favour of all of us sharing the pain through tax increases given that we're all going to share the positive outcomes?

Now that's the definition of 'fair'.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

According to the New Zealand website
ssc.govt.nz
Average annual salary in the Public Service in New Zealand in 2018 was $77,900

With the exchange rate of 1 nz dollar = 0.56 euro, that is €43,546 , which is considerably less than our own cso figure of average public sector salary here of €50k.

That makes our own public sector average pay look very high so.

I think if our government debt is 200 billion and increasing by another 30 billion this year, it is us who is less prosperous. Their government debt is less than half ours, as I understand it. Our government spending is unsustainable.

Comparing pay across different countries is meaningless without also comparing costs of living, taxation, public services. What does the average accountant earn in NZ compared to Ireland?

onrail

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Comparing pay across different countries is meaningless without also comparing costs of living.

For what it’s worth, my Anecdotal experience is that the cost of living in NZ as a whole, is typically higher than Ireland.
Although this is less evident if comparing against Dublin only.

Used to pay anywhere between NZ$10-12 for a pint in many places!

[Deleted User]

onrail wrote: »

For what it’s worth, my Anecdotal experience is that the cost of living in NZ as a whole, is typically higher than Ireland.
Although this is less evident if comparing against Dublin only.

Used to pay anywhere between NZ$10-12 for a pint in many places!

Thats €5.60. ireland is no different.

onrail

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Thats €5.60. ireland is no different.

€6 - €6.30 on average, all over the country.

Edit: My anecdotal experience only - no doubt there will be comment to the contrary.

Edgware

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

IMO there should be a 20% public sector wide pay cut to assist with the payment for this crisis

It is the fair thing to do to get this country back in check.

do you think 20 is enough? Could we say another Mass as well?

addaword

Edgware wrote: »

do you think 20 is enough? Could we say another Mass as well?

Some of the staff in our universities are on over €200,000 per year. A 20% pay cut would still leave them on over 160k. Plenty, when you remember the President (prime minister) of Spain is on just half that, at 82k.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Some of the staff in our universities are on over €200,000 per year. A 20% pay cut would still leave them on over 160k. Plenty, when you remember the President (prime minister) of Spain is on just half that, at 82k.

The President of Spain isn't competing to bring in research funding as part of the highly mobile international academic sector.

The average salary in Facebook Ireland was reported recently at €154k. That's the average, not the max, not the CEO - the average. A 10% tax hike was leave them on €140k. Plenty, when you remember that the President of Uruguay drives a 1987 VW Beetle. The same tax hike would also hit the staff on €200k in the universities. What's the problem?

HerrKuehn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The President of Spain isn't competing to bring in research funding as part of the highly mobile international academic sector.

The average salary in Facebook Ireland was reported recently at €154k. That's the average, not the max, not the CEO - the average. A 10% tax hike was leave them on €140k. Plenty, when you remember that the President of Uruguay drives a 1987 VW Beetle. The same tax hike would also hit the staff on €200k in the universities. What's the problem?

I agree about the universities. They need to attract the best that they can. A high quality researcher with nature publications etc can have a big impact.
The 52% marginal rate kicks in at 70k. This is very high and starting at a low salary level compared to other European countries. It just isn't very attractive given the low level of services in Ireland. Essentially the model is no/very low tax on lower earners, very high tax on higher earner and a low level of services provided.
I consider anything over 50% to be unfair. The state essentially gets more benefit from me working than I do. I have always just been paid normally through PAYE. If they were to bring in a marginal rate of 62%, I would look at other options. That could include living abroad for 6 months of the year, it really doesn't matter where I do my job from.

addaword

HerrKuehn wrote: »

The 52% marginal rate kicks in at 70k. This is very high and starting at a low salary level compared to other European countries. It just isn't very attractive given the low level of services in Ireland. Essentially the model is no/very low tax on lower earners, very high tax on higher earner and a low level of services provided.
I consider anything over 50% to be unfair. The state essentially gets more benefit from me working than I do. I have always just been paid normally through PAYE. If they were to bring in a marginal rate of 62%, I would look at other options. That could include living abroad for 6 months of the year, it really doesn't matter where I do my job from.

I agree with you, taxes are high in Ireland to fund our government spending, which includes our public sector which at an average of 50k is among the highest paid in the world.

[Deleted User]

HerrKuehn wrote: »

I agree about the universities. They need to attract the best that they can. A high quality researcher with nature publications etc can have a big impact.
The 52% marginal rate kicks in at 70k. This is very high and starting at a low salary level compared to other European countries. It just isn't very attractive given the low level of services in Ireland. Essentially the model is no/very low tax on lower earners, very high tax on higher earner and a low level of services provided.
I consider anything over 50% to be unfair. The state essentially gets more benefit from me working than I do. I have always just been paid normally through PAYE. If they were to bring in a marginal rate of 62%, I would look at other options. That could include living abroad for 6 months of the year, it really doesn't matter where I do my job from.

There are no easy options here. There are pros and cons with all proposals to reduce spending or increase taxation.

The problem really lies with those who propose glib solutions without having any understanding of the impact and outcomes.

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The President of Spain isn't competing to bring in research funding as part of the highly mobile international academic sector.

The President of Spain is not like our President, he is their head of government, their Prime Minister. So he ultimately the boss in running Spain, inc their education and economy. A much more responsible job than some of our university staff on over 200k, or Mickey Higgins on 250k. Yet the President of Spain, their highest politician, is only on 82k.
Time we got real about government spending here and cut taxes.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

The President of Spain is not like our President, he is their head of government, their Prime Minister. So he ultimately the boss in running Spain, inc their education and economy. A much more responsible job than some of our university staff on over 200k, or Mickey Higgins on 250k. Yet the President of Spain, their highest politician, is only on 82k.
Time we got real about government spending here and cut taxes.

The average staff member in Facebook isn't doing a more responsible job than the President of Spain, running Spain including their education and economy.

Time we got real about Facebook spending here and increased taxes to get their salaries down on a par with the Spanish President.

The Prime Minister of India earns just USD $88k for a much, much larger and more complex country than Spain. Shouldn't Spain be getting their President salary cut in half to be comparable to that in India?

Chaos Black

addaword wrote: »

Time we got real about government spending here and cut taxes.

*Controversial hat on*

Time that the farming industry pay their existing taxes and we stop giving them tax incentives as a disproportionate percentage of farmers are tax defaulters and we are using broad strokes here in this thread to justify sweeping actions like cutting the pay of all public servants based off of what a minority do/don't do or earn.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/finance/farmers-amongst-worst-tax-defaulters-in-the-country-revenue-figures-show-36520668.html

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Some of the staff in our universities are on over €200,000 per year. A 20% pay cut would still leave them on over 160k. Plenty, when you remember the President (prime minister) of Spain is on just half that, at 82k.

some of the staff in our private sector are on multiples of that

spray gun nonsense

Chiparus

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times on 15th of August last year, Irish hospital consultants earn 28% more than their UK counterparts.

Again , why are Northern Irish consultants not flocking down south for 30% better pay?
Because it is not true. Yes "base" pay is less but UK consultants earn far more on overtime and merit awards ,irish consultants dont get overtime, UK consultants do.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-36898881

[Deleted User]

It's a pity that someone of the diligence and expertise of our protagonist in this thread hasn't got access to the ears of power or the structures through which their wisdom and ability to google until he sees the vague headline figure he wants in page two of a search result in a newspaper headline.

Perhaps I might suggest that he takes his private sector expertise and goes through a public recruitment exercise, working his way through the required ranks and proving his ability to take into account the various established considerations and dynamics at play in public service so that in time- we anticipate it oughtn't be long, with that *waves hand* private sector brilliance- he is in fact sitting at a conference table with Govt, Public Sector Management, Union Reps and all and dazzles them with his *puts on reading glasses* "some people in other countries are paid differently would ye not take a big pay cut lads" rhetoric.

Because the genius is surely wasted on a pub bore level thread like this.

Chiparus

onrail wrote: »

For what it’s worth, my Anecdotal experience is that the cost of living in NZ as a whole, is typically higher than Ireland.
Although this is less evident if comparing against Dublin only.

Used to pay anywhere between NZ$10-12 for a pint in many places!

How is rent and income tax?
edit:
Never mind
Rent is 40% less, takehome pay is 5% less.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=New+Zealand&city1=Dublin&city2=Auckland&tracking=getDispatchComparison

Chiparus

Charles Babbage wrote: »

https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/income
average is just over NZ$1000 per week.
at €1 = NZ$1.78 that is €29,601.

now there could be difference of methodology and so on, but NZ is a less prosperous country and salaries are lower there.

I imagine Auckland has the best wages going there.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=New+Zealand&city1=Dublin&city2=Auckland&tracking=getDispatchComparison

addaword

Rent is half the price down the country compared to Dublin.