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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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Hotblack Desiato

pillphil wrote: »

However, i would say that no public(civil?) servant should be working from home on their own equipment. As I say that, i know that all of my (public/civil) co-workers are doing exactly that, because the majority haven't been provided with equipment to do so, but i think it's a mistake.

My employer does not allow it. But it's not a problem if a solution like Citrix is used.

Edit: I realised I left out a bit. All of the private employees have company issued laptops that have a certain minimum level of security, antivirus, etc. If something i specifically installed on that laptop causes a data breach, there's a record that i knowingly installed it, despite a warning that maybe i shouldn't.

You shouldn't have the ability to install anything at all on a work laptop.

If there is any data breach because of them working on their own equipment, who's fault is it?

The organisation's fault, for not having proper policies in place, or not implementing those policies.

Hotblack Desiato

Mad_maxx wrote: »

good money considering how little they do bar answering phones and sending out post , a receptionist and low level sectretary in the private sector would be on less and obviously without the same pension plan

You have no fcuking clue. None whatsoever.

smelly sock wrote: »

Lets not forget during the last downturn CO's had their pay cut. I remember as a CO being out on strike and all other grades passing the picket.

Two different unions then, you'd be suspended if you didn't pass the picket. CPSU did the same thing to the PSEU back in the day.

addaword

DubInMeath wrote: »

Don't know about secretaries or admin staff as not privy to their salary, but our receptionist is on 38k+ benefits, the only reason I know her salary is that she's my cousin.

Sure anyone can be out of a job in the private sector but that's their and my choice when you go for the private sector to get better money and perks along with the chance of a bit of tax dodging by some.

Jasus your receptionist is well paid so, my niece was a receptionist before the pandemic and she was not on anything like that. And as regards your point about tax dodging, the only tax dodgers I know are a few teachers doing grinds for cash and lecturers who used to do the odd nixer. So not exclusively a private sector thing.

fawlty682

There should be a 20% pay cut across Govenment departments. That might encourage NPHET and the teachers to get real

History Queen

fawlty682 wrote: »

There should be a 20% pay cut across Govenment departments. That might encourage NPHET and the teachers to get real

In what way do teachers need to "get real"?

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

You say you have a kid in school with no contact from the school in 5 weeks. Some other parents report the same. So it is not just Special Needs Assistants doing nothing, it is some teachers as well.

Just to be clear, one child in school having no contact does not imply that teachers and SNAs are doing nothing. It could be something as simple as some eejit not keeping the school informed of their new email address.

addaword wrote: »

You were answered already many times - see post above for example of some people doing nothing.
We know librarians and public sector dentists and physios are all busy working from home as well, and Bord Failte employees are extremely busy working from home advising the many tourists around what to do etc. Do not be so hard on them. Some teachers are working hard.

Weren't you asking questions about librarians and dentists and physios yesterday or possibly even this morning? How have you come from asking questions to definitive knowledge of them doing nothing over that short period? It's not possible that you're making stuff up again, is it?

addaword wrote: »

There are 16,000 Special Needs Assistants in Ireland. There were plans to redeploy a small number of them, but how many were actually redeployed.

I only know one public service physio , she was not redeployed. Some hospitals were actually quieter than normal during the lockdown.

Interesting, earlier on you knew someone waiting for physio, but now you know an actual physio and her employment status? Yeah, sure.

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times on the 15th of August last, hospital consultants here are paid 28% more than their counterparts in the UK, and 36% more than their counterparts in New Zealand. If, after paying insurance and overheads, consultants make more in private practice there is nothing to stop people leaving the public sector.

There are plenty of similar jobs in both sectors eg secretarial, admin, receptionist, lab technician, architect, vet, etc

Interesting stats - did they also report things like cost of living or cost of property in UK and NewZealand? 'cos comparison of salaries like that are fairly meaningless on their own.

Chaos Black wrote: »

My anecdotal experience is that the Civil Service does lose a fair amount of new people to the private sector as you do a few years in the service to get experience and training, then move to the private sector as it pays better.

There's certainly a long tradition of people leaving Revenue for industry posts as tax consultants and advisors on much, much higher salaries, as Derek Quinlan did.

addaword wrote: »

Not a vast majority, just some. And some of those may be out of a job soon. And difficult to compare a public service IT person to a website designer or google nerd, or the lad who fixes your laptop. They all work in IT you could say.

What about the secretaries, admin etc?

Really, so it's actually quite difficult to compare public sector and private sector roles then? That's fascinating to learn. You wouldn't have learned that from your earlier series of comparisons, remember those, the ones that you failed to show the supporting data for?

addaword wrote: »

Jasus your receptionist is well paid so, my niece was a receptionist before the pandemic and she was not on anything like that.

Do you know that salary of all your nieces and nephews? This is hilarious, really.

fawlty682 wrote: »

There should be a 20% pay cut across Govenment departments. That might encourage NPHET and the teachers to get real

Interesting - presumably by 'get real' you mean reduce the restrictions that have stopped the growth of the virus to date, is that it? Why would you think that reducing salaries would change evidence based medical advice? And what exactly do teachers need to 'get real' about?

addaword

riddles wrote: »

The lack of any kind of proactive approach from the department of education in Covid has been nothing short of appalling. In fact its reactive approach has been just as bad.

One kid in national school - no contact from the school in five weeks and no access to the books.

From parents of kids I know, that is not unusual. You would really expect better from schools though. Even the schools that just send out one email a week on a Monday morning, you would think they would check to see if the recipient got the email, never mind done some work?

addaword

History Queen wrote: »

In what way do teachers need to "get real"?

The teachers who sunbathe and drank in front of their houses for 6 weeks, and who spent the rest of their time walking, need to at least send their kids an email with work to do once a week.
And then check is it done. There are kids in my extended family who have not heard from a teacher in 6 weeks too, despite parents notifying the headmaster. "Ah sure, that teacher is retiring this year".

Charles Babbage

addaword wrote: »

According to the Irish Times on the 15th of August last, hospital consultants here are paid 28% more than their counterparts in the UK, and 36% more than their counterparts in New Zealand. If, after paying insurance and overheads, consultants make more in private practice there is nothing to stop people leaving the public sector.

There are plenty of similar jobs in both sectors eg secretarial, admin, receptionist, lab technician, architect, vet, etc

Everybody here is paid more than in New Zealand
the median salary in NZ is about €30,000 while here it is €46,000.
So consultants are not any different than anyone else.

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And not all teachers have laptops or tablets, so how they supposed to manage their students ..

Pathetic excuse.

[Deleted User]

cal naughton wrote: »

There is no fancy accounting for ordinary paye private sector workers. I think you are getting confused with the self employed here.

Self employed are private sector. And I know a few workers whose bosses are putting them down for less hours than they actually work and paying them cash. The likes if that just does not happen in the public sector.

addaword

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Everybody here is paid more than in New Zealand
the median salary in NZ is about €30,000 while here it is €46,000.
So consultants are not any different than anyone else.

Actually a NZ dollar is 0.56 euro, so the average salary of 77k in New Zealand is actually more than average salary here, which is not 46k.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

The teachers who sunbathe and drank in front of their houses for 6 weeks, and who spent the rest of their time walking, need to at least send their kids an email with work to do once a week.
And then check is it done. There are kids in my extended family who have not heard from a teacher in 6 weeks too, despite parents notifying the headmaster. "Ah sure, that teacher is retiring this year".

Ah yes, teachers, the possibly most conservative profession in the country after priests and nuns, are absolutely notorious for public drinking and sunbathing! This is just hilarious - the desperate fantasies of a twisted imagination to further a rather strange political agenda.

And just to be clear, along with staying current with the salaries of your nieces and nephews, you also stay in touch with the frequency of responses from teachers to each of the children in your extended family.

Really, Bart Simpson comes up with more credible stories.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Pathetic excuse.

It's a fact, not an excuse - but it's interesting to see how often you fall back to rely on that response while you avoid any of the more recent questions put to you.

Curious that...

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's a fact, not an excuse -

It is an excuse when you use it as a reason the poor teachers do not teach their kids properly during the lockdown.

History Queen

addaword wrote: »

The teachers who sunbathe and drank in front of their houses for 6 weeks, and who spent the rest of their time walking, need to at least send their kids an email with work to do once a week.
And then check is it done. There are kids in my extended family who have not heard from a teacher in 6 weeks too, despite parents notifying the headmaster. "Ah sure, that teacher is retiring this year".

So not all teachers then. Just some. The same way as some nurses/plumbers/electricians/accountants/shopkeepers (insert job of choice) etc. do the bare minimum or nothing at all and need to "get real".

Edited to add: that's taking your post at face value which is more than it deserves

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And just to be clear, along with staying current with the salaries of your nieces and nephews, you also stay in touch with the frequency of responses from teachers to each of the children...

I know the approximate salary of ONE niece, yes. Nothing unusual there. And the family do know how little some teachers ( not all) are communicating with the kids.

killbillvol2

addaword wrote: »

Jasus your receptionist is well paid so, my niece was a receptionist before the pandemic and she was not on anything like that.

Maybe her low salary reflects her lack of skills. Possibly hereditary.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Jasus your receptionist is well paid so, my niece was a receptionist before the pandemic and she was not on anything like that.

You need to compare the PS with a reasonable sized business not the local small town hardware shop.

addaword

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You need to compare the PS with a reasonable sized business not the local small town hardware shop.

It was a large business she worked for. Small town hardware shops do not have receptionists.

Dr. Bre

fawlty682 wrote: »

There should be a 20% pay cut across Govenment departments. That might encourage NPHET and the teachers to get real

If public service gets 20 % cut they should quit the job and claim the 350 Euro a week

onrail

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Everybody here is paid more than in New Zealand
the median salary in NZ is about €30,000 while here it is €46,000.
So consultants are not any different than anyone else.

Source? I Worked in NZ for 2 years, earning 25% more than my equivalent role in Ireland. Similar costs of living between Dublin and Auckland.

addaword

Dr. Bre wrote: »

If public service gets 20 % cut they should quit the job and claim the 350 Euro a week

Only the lowest paid would do that. Average p.s. pay is 50,000 per year. Even I would not advocate a 20% cut across the board, it was someone else who suggested the 20% figure. And by the time the government cuts public sector pay, I would say the 350 per week will be long gone, as it was a temporary measure.

Edgware

Dr. Bre wrote: »

If public service gets 20 % cut they should quit the job and claim the 350 Euro a week

The 350 a week wont be around for too long

Jim Root

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Maybe her low salary reflects her lack of skills. Possibly hereditary.

These type of personal digs are not on.

road_high

Have to say a large pay cut is looking more and more likely as the weeks and months go by and the government does nothing to accelerate reopening of the economy. Simply won’t be the tax revenue there to maintain existing levels. All the mobs screaming for more lockdowns, well this will be the price you’ll pay.

ninebeanrows

IMO there should be a 20% public sector wide pay cut to assist with the payment for this crisis

It is the fair thing to do to get this country back in check.

Fann Linn

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

IMO there should be a 20% public sector wide pay cut to assist with the payment for this crisis

It is the fair thing to do to get this country back in check.

Or just increase Chinese tariffs by 20% as they caused it!

Charles Babbage

onrail wrote: »

Source? I Worked in NZ for 2 years, earning 25% more than my equivalent role in Ireland. Similar costs of living between Dublin and Auckland.

https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/income
average is just over NZ$1000 per week.
at €1 = NZ$1.78 that is €29,601.

now there could be difference of methodology and so on, but NZ is a less prosperous country and salaries are lower there.

I imagine Auckland has the best wages going there.

road_high

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

IMO there should be a 20% public sector wide pay cut to assist with the payment for this crisis

It is the fair thing to do to get this country back in check.

I don’t think it’ll be just an opinion soon it’ll be an absolute necessity to allow us access to loans to pay for all this self imposed mess. It’s time the country got onto this page and out of Covid induced narnia