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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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yenom

addaword wrote: »

The Irish Times are various media programmes report the same.

Of course. Public sector workers include surgeons, TDs, engineers etc. When you add them into the mix, of course the average wage will be higher.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Sure. Public sector workers earn 35% more than private sector workers, according to the Irish Independent.

I think it is important to be careful when comparing average pay. A crude public versus private average comparison will not really mean very much.

It would be better to compare like with like, for example nurse pay in public sector compared to private sector or I.T. Analyst public versus private etc.

It would be interesting to see these type of comparisons, particularly for someone starting their career.

kingstevii

addaword wrote: »

Sure. Public sector workers earn 35% more than private sector workers, according to the Irish Independent.

So a doctor in the hse earns 35% more than a till worker in lidl? Just to generalise like?

[Deleted User]

yenom wrote: »

Of course. Public sector workers include surgeons, TDs, engineers etc. When you add them into the mix, of course the average wage will be higher.

And let's not forget the fancy accounting in the private sector hiding their true income.

addaword

kingstevii wrote: »

So a doctor in the hse earns 35% more than a till worker in lidl? Just to generalise like?

No, it found a receptionist in the HSE earns more than a receptionist in the private sector. A glorified book-keeper earns more in the public sector than a glorified book-keeper in the private sector. A dentist in the HSE earns more than a dentist employed in the private sector. Just to generalise like.

And that is not mentioning job security and pensions.

kingstevii

addaword wrote: »

No, a receptionist in the HSE earns more than a receptionist in the private sector. A glorified book-keeper earns more in the public sector than a glorified book-keeper in the private sector. A dentist in the HSE earns more than a dentist employed in the private sector. Just to generalise like.

Does a dentist in hse really earn more than in the private? A private dentist probably earns 200 euro an hour.. And even though you're looking to protect low paid public sector, by your reckoning a receptionist in hse needs their wages cut by 35%?

Chaos Black

Deleted User wrote: »

That's at the top. The supervisory grades in talking about.

Won't get into it too much but i'm not at the top grades and I have gone to Oireachtas committees with a Minister and had the situation where it came apparent mid committee that the briefing pack had a page missing. Although someone of a lower grade had printed and put together the folder it was my responsibility and that is entirely correct!

I have worked as a CO and EO before so I also know that like all organisations.. excrement often rolls downhill.

cal naughton

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And let's not forget the fancy accounting in the private sector hiding their true income.

There is no fancy accounting for ordinary paye private sector workers. I think you are getting confused with the self employed here.

addaword

kingstevii wrote: »

by your reckoning a receptionist in hse needs their wages cut by 35%?

No. I said "The lower paid public servants should be protected. It is the ones above the p.a. average of 50k a year who should be targeted. And those not working at all like Special Needs Assistants should be on 350 a week like everyone else out of work."

Signore Fancy Pants

addaword wrote: »

No. I said "The lower paid public servants should be protected. It is the ones above the p.a. average of 50k a year who should be targeted. And those not working at all like Special Needs Assistants should be on 350 a week like everyone else out of work."

How does the Public Sector pay bill per year compare to the Social Welfare bill?

addaword

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

How does the Public Sector pay bill per year compare to the Social Welfare bill?

Both are higher than they should be. Rather than deflect this thread with Social Welfare, why do you not set up another thread for that?

Signore Fancy Pants

addaword wrote: »

Both are higher than they should be. Rather than deflect this thread with Social Welfare, why do you not set up another thread for that?

Ah classic response :pac: One which highlights where theres no further engagement needed by anyone else. Your agenda is clear.

Just trying to ascertain if you are anti-Public Sector or if you believe all areas where public funds go should be reviewed.

Its always easier (well, lazier to be honest) to have a pop at the Public Sector...."da sourze uf all or Pr0blimz".

Also, specifically targeting anyone over €50,000 is laughable and very simplistic, what is your rationale behind it? Actually dont bother answering that.

I brought up social welfare due to your aggressive opinions about people being paid while (temporarily) sitting at home not doing any work.

Wondered what you though of the people who permanently do that (long term dole receipiants) and what your plans are for that? Dont bother answering that either.

People giving out about the public sector should join it or stfu.

I see your account is new enough, should have known. Bye now.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Some people still cannot get this, or at least they let on as if they cannot get it. The lower paid public servants should be protected. It is the ones above the p.a. average of 50k a year who should be targeted. And those not working at all like Special Needs Assistants should be on 350 a week like everyone else out of work.

What people don't get is how you can make claims about how everyone knows people sitting at home on full pay for nothing but not come up with one specific example yourself of any role/organisation that is doing this.

What people don't get is how you choose this one particular aspect of public spending as the area to be cut back, and not, perhaps, the vast amounts of subsidies to private sector business and their owners,

https://twitter.com/HHumphreysFG/status/1263830208513277957?s=20

or not perhaps, public spending on infrastructure and capital investment, or not perhaps public spending on services from the private sector, including legal, consultancy, customer service and more, or not perhaps public spending on, for example, pensioners who hold most of the asset-based wealth in the country?

What is it specifically about public sector staff that you are so jealous of?

addaword wrote: »

Sure. Public sector workers earn 35% more than private sector workers, according to the Irish Independent.

addaword wrote: »

The Irish Times and various media programmes report the same.

The media aren't a source. The media report on reports published by other bodies. It might help if you could actually quote a single reputable source behind the figures that you're so quick to throw out.

Deleted User wrote: »

And let's not forget the fancy accounting in the private sector hiding their true income.

Not even just 'fancy accounting', but let's not forget all the things that aren't reported in remuneration - the overnight and weekend junkets, the cash bonuses under the table in cash businesses, the disability protection insurance that is standard in all multinationals but public servants have to pay for.

addaword wrote: »

No, it found a receptionist in the HSE earns more than a receptionist in the private sector. A glorified book-keeper earns more in the public sector than a glorified book-keeper in the private sector. A dentist in the HSE earns more than a dentist employed in the private sector. Just to generalise like.

I don't suppose there is any vague possibility that you'll show what particular report or research you are referring to here?

Vizzy

addaword wrote: »

Sure. Public sector workers earn 35% more than private sector workers, according to the Irish Independent.

Great deflection, top marks.

But that was not my question.

I asked you to outline(with a source or link) people in the public sector who are on full pay and not doing anything.

You are making it up, aren't you - a simple yes or no will suffice.

[Deleted User]

Mad_maxx wrote: »

good money considering how little they do bar answering phones and sending out post , a receptionist and low level sectretary in the private sector would be on less and obviously without the same pension plan

You really have no idea what people work at.
As a CO I was responsible for a sizeable budget and for building maintenance. Not quiet the low level stuff you're spouting.

Can the mods ban people for talking sh!te?

[Deleted User]

Vizzy wrote: »

Great deflection, top marks.

But that was not my question.

I asked you to outline(with a source or link) people in the public sector who are on full pay and not doing anything.

You are making it up, aren't you - a simple yes or no will suffice.

Stop asking silly questions... We all know what kind of answers we'll get

addaword

riddles wrote: »

One kid in national school - no contact from the school in five weeks and no access to the books.

One in secondary school getting loaded on work with no coordination among teachers of workload volume.

How hard would it have been to create remote virtual classroom offering per year in primary albeit not a two way engagement per class year for 3 hours a day and then the current teacher distributes and corrects homework

A similar model per subject and year in secondary.

The department of education and a lot of the teaching community have absolutely no interest in their roles. A function currently totally unfit for purpose and in urgent need of reform.

PS the only current measure still active in the PS is whether you swipe in every day. Most don’t even have laptops and are at home on full pay. Others are literally swamped in work which is a representation of the PS in normal operations. About 30% carrying the 70% that do SFA.

You say you have a kid in school with no contact from the school in 5 weeks. Some other parents report the same. So it is not just Special Needs Assistants doing nothing, it is some teachers as well.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

You say you have a kid in school with no contact from the school in 5 weeks. Some other parents report the same. So it is not just Special Needs Assistants doing nothing, it is some teachers as well.

Let's sack all the teachers and sna's etc doing nothing. It's obvious we don't need them!

addaword

Vizzy wrote: »

I asked you to outline(with a source or link) people in the public sector who are on full pay and not doing anything.

You were answered already many times - see post above for example of some people doing nothing.
We know librarians and public sector dentists and physios are all busy working from home as well, and Bord Failte employees are extremely busy working from home advising the many tourists around what to do etc. Do not be so hard on them. Some teachers are working hard.

History Queen

addaword wrote: »

You were answered already many times - see post above for example of some people doing nothing.
We know librarians and public sector dentists and physios are all busy working from home as well, and Bord Failte employees are extremely busy working from home advising the many tourists around what to do etc. Do not be so hard on them.

But haven't a lot of these roles been redeployed? My sister-in-law is a public sector physio and she was redeployed to a ward in a hospital. SNAs were up for redeployment but I know there was an issue regarding vetting I think I'm not sure if it was ironed out since? I think most public sector workers not working from home have been redeployed. Not accounting for those that aren't working but should be. But no one is suggesting that that is acceptable.

addaword

History Queen wrote: »

But haven't a lot of these roles been redeployed? My sister-in-law is a public sector physio and she was redeployed to a ward in a hospital. SNAs were up for redeployment but I know there was an issue regarding vetting I think I'm not sure if it was ironed out since? I think most public sector workers not working from home have been redeployed. Not accounting for those that aren't working but should be. But no one is suggesting that that is acceptable.

There are 16,000 Special Needs Assistants in Ireland. There were plans to redeploy a small number of them, but how many were actually redeployed.

I only know one public service physio , she was not redeployed. Some hospitals were actually quieter than normal during the lockdown.

Chiparus

addaword wrote: »

Sure. Public sector workers earn 35% more than private sector workers, according to the Irish Independent.

Very difficult to find similar jobs in both private and public sectors, the only ones I can think of are hospital consultants, where they earn far more on the private side.

History Queen

addaword wrote: »

There are 16,000 Special Needs Assistants in Ireland. There were plans to redeploy a small number of them, but how many were actually redeployed.

I only know one public service physio , she was not redeployed. Some hospitals were actually quieter than normal during the lockdown.

All the SNAs in my school were up for it but I'm not sure how it worked out for a finish. My sister in law is a physio in Dublin and demand there is higher than the rest of the country, could explain it.

addaword

Chiparus wrote: »

Very difficult to find similar jobs in both private and public sectors, the only ones I can think of are hospital consultants, where they earn far more on the private side.

According to the Irish Times on the 15th of August last, hospital consultants here are paid 28% more than their counterparts in the UK, and 36% more than their counterparts in New Zealand. If, after paying insurance and overheads, consultants make more in private practice there is nothing to stop people leaving the public sector.

There are plenty of similar jobs in both sectors eg secretarial, admin, receptionist, lab technician, architect, vet, etc

Fann Linn

addaword wrote: »

I know someone waiting on a physio and they were told no appointment can be made during the lockdown. I suppose Special Needs Assistants from schools and librarians and public service dentists and so on are busy working from home. They are not on €350 per week anyway.

Librarians in our local authority are busy providing books for elderly cocooners and working in the local enterprise offices processing claims for private sector business in getting rates reduced or rebated.

Your stuck now with semi state bord failte and SNAs with your attacks.

[Deleted User]

Chiparus wrote: »

Very difficult to find similar jobs in both private and public sectors, the only ones I can think of are hospital consultants, where they earn far more on the private side.

Vast majority of those in I.T. make a lot more and faster in the private sector.

Chaos Black

I believe the reason people don't traditionally leave to the private sector is because they pay into a pension. The pension terms were quite generous and this was addressed in the last recession by adjusting it for entrants from 2013 onward (at least in Civil Service).

If you target pay cuts for those over 50k i'd guess what will happen is those close to retirement will stay on because of the pension. Once the economy picks up you may find it difficult to replace these people with good candidates though as a lot of them are due to retire and if the pay is not competitive, well like you say why not go private sector route? At least where I am, those at over 50k generally have a lot of responsibilities and you don't want inept people running things.

My anecdotal experience is that the Civil Service does lose a fair amount of new people to the private sector as you do a few years in the service to get experience and training, then move to the private sector as it pays better.

addaword

DubInMeath wrote: »

Vast majority of those in I.T. make a lot more and faster in the private sector.

Not a vast majority, just some. And some of those may be out of a job soon. And difficult to compare a public service IT person to a website designer or google nerd, or the lad who fixes your laptop. They all work in IT you could say.

What about the secretaries, admin etc?

Vizzy

Chaos Black wrote: »

My anecdotal experience is that the Civil Service does lose a fair amount of new people to the private sector as you do a few years in the service to get experience and training, then move to the private sector as it pays better.

Rubbish, did you not see that the Irish Independent say that the public sector earn 35% more than private.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Not a vast majority, just some. And some of those may be out of a job soon. And difficult to compare a public service IT person to a website designer or google nerd, or the lad who fixes your laptop. They all work in IT you could say.

What about the secretaries, admin etc?

Actually the vast majority and not difficult to compare either.
I work in I.T. and we are paying graduates 35k+ benefits, for level 1 support roles just to get interest, an AO which I believe is a low level lead role in the civil service starts at just over 32k with just the pension as benefit, and a top salary of just under 62k after sixteen years service I believe.

Don't know about secretaries or admin staff as not privy to their salary, but our receptionist is on 38k+ benefits, the only reason I know her salary is that she's my cousin.

Sure anyone can be out of a job in the private sector but that's their and my choice when you go for the private sector to get better money and perks along with the chance of a bit of tax dodging by some.