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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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[Deleted User]

Addaword are you private sector?

addaword

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Addaword are you private sector?

Noyb. Andrew Renko, a public servant, points out some teachers do not have a laptop or tablet and therefore cannot teach kids properly.
Maybe if there was an appeal on the radio for people to donate old tablets etc to their local school, we could rectify the situation? Think of the kids.

riddles

It take's perhaps allowing for time for a cup of tea an hours work on a Monday morning to upload to an App do page number whatever from English, Irish and Maths and then an artwork, or project for the rest of the week.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Noyb.

I remember you from the last recession on boards.

addaword

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I remember you from the last recession on boards.

Impossible, I never even heard of boards.ie then. There were nearly 2 million people in the private sector though. Many read the Irish Times and Indo and listen to the media, and indeed have family and friends from both sectors.

blanch152

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just to be clear, they are refusing to accept personal financial liability for legal costs arising from any legal actions that result from grading students, but don't let any facts get in your way.

It's quite fascinating to see the efforts to confuse and blur the issue. Unfortunately for you, the issues are very clear. Here's a quick summary:

1) You have failed to give any detail to back up your claim about people sitting at home on full pay, despite multiple requests from multiple users.

2) My point about teachers and laptops was in the context of them being expected to manage students on an online platform, no more and no less.

So for the fifth time, what organisations are these people who are sitting at home doing nothing on full pay employed by please?

Special Needs Assistants in Schools?

They are certainly working far less than normal.

Other than those, my experience is that the vast majority of public servants who are not on the frontline are working from home very hard and very efficiently.

There could be others - dentists, physiotherapists - who are restricted by social distancing rules, but they may well have been redeployed by the HSE.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

You answered the question yourself. Some other posters answered it for you too. There are some (not all) teachers from the dept of education who are doing little or nothing. That is just one example.

You said yourself there are some teachers who do not have access to a laptop or tablet, how are they expected to teach. If you know of such schools, perhaps you could mention them so people could donate old tablets etc to them?

It is not good enough, as someone else said, to have some kids not hearing from their teachers in 5 weeks.

I'm not asking other people for their opinions. I'm asking you for the detail behind your very recent claim that 'we all know' people sitting at home getting paid for doing nothing.

It doesn't really seem credible that the only people that you know in this situation are the one fairly small, fairly niche group of teachers that don't have a laptop at home was in your mind when you made that claim.

It is literally incredible that was in your mind when you made that claim.

So can you please be specific about what staff in what organisations YOU know that are sitting at home getting paid for doing nothing?

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And not all teachers have laptops or tablets, so how they supposed to manage their students on the service?

Again I ask you, is that a good enough excuse for some school pupils not hearing from their school in 5 weeks?

And how are some civil service and office staff expected to work from home if even some teachers do not have laptops or tablets, as you claim?

pinkyeye

LRNM wrote: »

1. We're not civil servants.

2. 36,000 is after 9 years of service.

Please check your facts. Starting salary is 25k.

3. There's more than just paramedics working in the ambulance service.

Says you posting 2016 information. Are you for real????? And it's simply a picture, not an actual link??

KaneToad

pinkyeye wrote: »

Says you posting 2016 information. Are you for real????? And it's simply a picture, not an actual link??

I don't think there have been any dramatic pay increases for Paramedics in the past few years. 2016 is hardly that long ago.

http://www.nationalambulanceservice.ie/Working-For-Us/Staff-View/Jobs-Expo-Final-RG-PDF.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiH5r-KjcjpAhVSTRUIHbysCLEQFjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0-F8P575s6GolrUGk6PwD5

MactheKnife90

Hard to believe what I'm reading in some posts on this thread. Obsession with Nurses? Paramedics pay scales, FFS the lack of respect for front line services in this country by Toffs is shocking. Whatever about Gardai, FF and Army, the nurses and Paramedics are two who are at the coal face 24/7 365.

Vizzy

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Hard to believe what I'm reading in some posts on this thread. Obsession with Nurses? Paramedics pay scales, FFS the lack of respect for front line services in this country by Toffs is shocking. Whatever about Gardai, FF and Army, the nurses and Paramedics are two who are at the coal face 24/7 365.

And how much will that be worth when they try to cash it in, in say 6 months time ?

Eaten bread is soon forgotten etc etc.

MactheKnife90

Vizzy wrote: »

And how much will that be worth when they try to cash it in, in say 6 months time ?

Eaten bread is soon forgotten etc etc.

Yeah exactly. We will continue to pay them below average wage and hope these altruistic people continue to reproduce. Sad really.

addaword

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

We will continue to pay them below average wage.

Nurses average wage is 57k per year. Average industrial wage is only thirty something k per year.

addaword

blanch152 wrote: »

Special Needs Assistants in Schools?

They are certainly working far less than normal.

Other than those, my experience is that the vast majority of public servants who are not on the frontline are working from home very hard and very efficiently.

There could be others - dentists, physiotherapists - who are restricted by social distancing rules, but they may well have been redeployed by the HSE.

Perhaps dentists and physios were redeployed for virus testing ? Genuine question.

Bord Failte staff, are they answering queries from tourists on where to go? NCT staff, are they on €350 per week? Are people still submitting property plans to planning departments for planning permission?

talla10

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Hard to believe what I'm reading in some posts on this thread. Obsession with Nurses? Paramedics pay scales, FFS the lack of respect for front line services in this country by Toffs is shocking. Whatever about Gardai, FF and Army, the nurses and Paramedics are two who are at the coal face 24/7 365.

Are you saying Gardaí aren't 24/7/ 365?

Fann Linn

addaword wrote: »

Perhaps dentists and physios were redeployed for virus testing ? Genuine question.

Bord Failte staff, are they answering queries from tourists on where to go? NCT staff, are they on €350 per week? Are people still submitting property plans to planning departments for planning permission?

Don't think NCT staff are public servants.
I know people are still looking for planning permission from public servants.

Chaos Black

Hard to talk about public sector in a general sense regarding pay and performance when it covers a very large and diverse cohort from Frontline services, public bodies to civil service all of which differ to large extents.

Even in the civil service depending on where you're posted and what you work on your experience is vastly different to another civil servant.

As a civil servant post 2013 I would not like a pay cut or no pay increase this year as I'm already on a worse deal and for my level of responsibility the private sector would pay better under normal circumstances, which is why you do see people make that move, especially in the post 2013 cohort as they don't have as much invested into a pension.

Job underperformance is another topic. I think a recent civil service survey indicated a lot of colleagues do think underperformance is not adequately addressed. How that equates to the whole public sector taking a pay cut I don't understand?

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Perhaps dentists and physios were redeployed for virus testing ? Genuine question.

Bord Failte staff, are they answering queries from tourists on where to go? NCT staff, are they on €350 per week? Are people still submitting property plans to planning departments for planning permission?

addaword wrote: »

Again I ask you, is that a good enough excuse for some school pupils not hearing from their school in 5 weeks?

And how are some civil service and office staff expected to work from home if even some teachers do not have laptops or tablets, as you claim?

For the third time (and I'll keep clarifying as long as you keep twisting), the context of my comment about teachers not having laptops was about them being expected to manage classes on an online platform - no more and no less.

If you take this comment out of context and apply it to other scenarios, as you've done above, then it's your comment and not mine - so don't ask me to explain or justify your comment.

And in relation to your other three questions above, did you not know the answers to these questions BEFORE you made your claim about everyone knowing people sitting at home getting paid for doing nothing - remember, the claim that you still haven't backed up with any detail?

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And not all teachers have laptops or tablets, so how they supposed to manage their students on the service?

Can YOU back up YOUR claim with any detail, or answer any of the questions?

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Can YOU back up YOUR claim with any detail, or answer any of the questions?

What claim are you referring to? I've served on two different school boards, and I know with absolute certainty that not all teachers have laptops. Some schools have laptops in selected classrooms only, some schools have 'the computer room', a 1980s phenomenon that should be discarded, some schools have trolleys of tablets wheeled out as required.

Are you suggesting that every teacher in the country has a school-issued laptop?

And in terms of answering your questions, if you want me to do your research for you, I normally charge €50 an hour. Let me know how you'd like to proceed.

Now, back to your claim that we all know people sitting at home getting paid for doing nothing - what organisations do the people that you know work in please?

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What claim are you referring to?

For the umpteenth time, the claim you made at 14.43 hours yesterday. You excuse some teachers for not being able to teach online because not all teachers have laptops or tablets, according to you.

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And in terms of answering your questions, if you want me to do your research for you, I normally charge €50 an hour. Let me know how you'd like to proceed.

If teachers get €50 an hour for grinds, do you not think they could treat themselves to a laptop or tablet? Is there any excuse for a teacher in this country to not own a laptop or tablet, or to struggle with basic IT tasks like sending homework by email?

In fairness, all teachers I know would have a tablet or laptop. I find your claim that some would not, to be extra-ordinary.

Fann Linn

addaword wrote: »

If teachers get €50 an hour for grinds, do you not think they could treat themselves to a laptop or tablet? Is there any excuse for a teacher in this country to not own a laptop or tablet, or to struggle with basic IT tasks like sending homework by email?

My daughter, private sector, was sent home with company laptop to work from her home in accounts. She's only actually started lately as internet / broadband coverage is so poor at her address. So it is quite possible that people earning €50 plus per hour cannot operate from home as smoothly as at their place of work.

addaword

Fann Linn wrote: »

My daughter, private sector, was sent home with company laptop to work from her home in accounts. She's only actually started lately as internet / broadband coverage is so poor at her address. So it is quite possible that people earning €50 plus per hour cannot operate from home as smoothly as at their place of work.

Broadband coverage is a different issue. AndrewJRenko said "not all teachers have laptops or tablets, so how they supposed to manage their students on the service?" His excuse for some of them not teaching properly was because they did not have a laptop or tablet. AndrewJRenko also claimed to have served on two different school boards, so that makes his excuse on behalf of some teachers under performance all the more alarming.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

If teachers get €50 an hour for grinds, do you not think they could treat themselves to a laptop or tablet? Is there any excuse for a teacher in this country to not own a laptop or tablet, or to struggle with basic IT tasks like sending homework by email?

In fairness, all teachers I know would have a tablet or laptop. I find your claim that some would not, to be extra-ordinary.

How did you decide that all teachers give grinds or get €50 an hour for grinds?

And why would a teacher need 'an excuse' not to have a laptop or tablet. It's a personal choice, like having a car or a blender or a hat. Some people have them, some people don't. They don't need to answer to you for their choices.

And please don't expect anyone to take your claims of 'all teachers I know' seriously at all, given that you've repeatedly failed to detail your previous claim.

addaword wrote: »

Broadband coverage is a different issue. AndrewJRenko said "not all teachers have laptops or tablets, so how they supposed to manage their students on the service?" His excuse for some of them not teaching properly was because they did not have a laptop or tablet. AndrewJRenko also claimed to have served on two different school boards, so that makes his excuse on behalf of some teachers under performance all the more alarming.

Again, you don't seem to have a very good grasp of detail. I didn't mention 'teaching properly' at all. That's just something you made up. You might want to go back and read what I actually said again.

And is there any chance that you'll detail your claim about all those people you know sitting at home getting paid for doing nothing - who are these people and where do they work?

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How did you decide that all teachers give grinds or get €50 an hour for grinds?

Of course not all teachers give grinds, but some do. You yourself admitted you answer questions and charge €50 per hour for the pleasure.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And why would a teacher need 'an excuse' not to have a laptop or tablet.

It was you who claimed not all teachers had a laptop or tablet, and you used that as an excuse for some teachers not being able to teach online as fully as they otherwise might. See your post of yesterday afternoon. I quoted it to you already.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And is there any chance that you'll detail your claim about all those people you know sitting at home getting paid for doing nothing - who are these people and where do they work?

I said we all know people at home doing little or no work. I agree with you that some teachers (but not all teachers) would fall in to that category. Some teachers work quite hard.

blanch152 wrote: »

Special Needs Assistants in Schools?

They are certainly working far less than normal.

Other than those, my experience is that the vast majority of public servants who are not on the frontline are working from home very hard and very efficiently.

There could be others - dentists, physiotherapists - who are restricted by social distancing rules, but they may well have been redeployed by the HSE.

Perhaps someone could confirm if the like of dentists and physiotherapists are redeployed by the HSE? It would be interesting to know. And what are most librarians doing, working from home? And Bord Failte people- are they all wfh directing tourists to the local hotels and attractions?

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Of course not all teachers give grinds, but some do. You yourself admitted you answer questions and charge €50 per hour for the pleasure.

It was you who claimed not all teachers had a laptop or tablet, and you used that as an excuse for some teachers not being able to teach online as fully as they otherwise might. See your post of yesterday afternoon. I quoted it to you already.

I said we all know people at home doing little or no work. I agree with you that some teachers (but not all teachers) would fall in to that category. Some teachers work quite hard.

So why would you link teachers not having laptops to teachers giving grinds? Why would you assume that the same teachers are involved in both?

And why would you associate me with teachers?

And no, I didn't use not having a laptop as an excuse for not being able to teach online. Go back and read my post again please.

And just to be clear - are you saying that all the people that you know sitting at home doing nothing and being paid are teachers? Is that your position now?

Chaos Black

To save a back and forth argument between you two on a Friday night..

I am sure a minority of private sector workers and public sector are sat up at home doing little to nothing who could/are working from home. In both cases a manager somewhere is turning a blind eye or unable to address the problem.

You can argue underperformance is more likely to not be addressed in the public sector once identified as the process of getting rid of someone is long and full of red tape.

That does not = pay cut for everyone.

In any case the decision about public pay will be fiscal and political. I don't think they will as it will send out an austerity message and could cause strike. Going after pensions would be even more likely to cause problems as the election demonstrated. Last time the government hit new entrants. I don't think you can do that again.

addaword

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And no, I didn't use not having a laptop as an excuse for not being able to teach online.

As I said, it was you who claimed not all teachers had a laptop or tablet, and you used that as an excuse for some teachers not being able to teach online as fully as they otherwise might. Here is your quote yet again from 14.43 hours yesterday:

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And not all teachers have laptops or tablets, so how they supposed to manage their students on the service?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And just to be clear - are you saying that all the people that you know sitting at home doing nothing and being paid are teachers? Is that your position now?

I never claimed "all the people that you know sitting at home doing nothing and being paid are teachers". Please read more carefully and pay attention to detail.