wassie wrote: » Hong Kong is part of China's territories, so they can do what they want unimpeded in reality. Taiwan would be where you want to see real action by the US if called for.
Quin_Dub wrote: » Exactly - A bit like the ratio of "People Trump has threatened to sue" vs. "People Trump has actually sued" ?22 Times Trump threatened to sue people during the 2016 election. 22 Threats of legal action over the course of about 18 months... He actually sued only 2 of them - One was settled out of court so we don't know if he won or not (The Univision case) , the other was thrown out for not being valid (The Hotel workers union one). So - Trump threatens a lot of people for a lot of things , but he rarely follows through and when he does , his success rate isn't all that great..
StringerBell wrote: » Remember when he was gonna sue all the women who accused him of sexual harassment and assault sure once the campaign was over, and how many did he actually sue? Not one.
aloyisious wrote: » States do require you to carry an I/D when you're voting. That said, a carry-gun permit will suffice as I/D in some states.
Manic Moran wrote: » I never understood why people complain about that. I didn't have to go through a background check for my driver's license, I did for my carry permit. Both are issued by Texas Dept of Public Safety, they look similar, they even are linked in the database (to the point that they use the same photograph). If one is going to accept a state ID card or driver's license, a state carry permit certainly should be accepted (and, indeed, here in TX, they are).
listermint wrote: » Probably because it promotes gun ownership. Something federal agencies shouldn't be doing
Manic Moran wrote: » I never understood why people complain about that. I didn't have to go through a background check for my driver's license, I did for my carry permit. Both are issued by Texas Dept of Public Safety, they look similar, they even are linked in the database (to the point that they use the same photograph). If one is going to accept a state ID card or driver's license, a state carry permit certainly should be accepted (and, indeed, here in TX, they are). Compare https://woocommerce-262453-958953.cloudwaysapps.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/License-to-Carry-Texas.jpg vs https://www.kxan.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/2019/06/Drivers-license.jpg?w=1920&h=1080&crop=1
FrostyJack wrote: » The reason people don't like it is because it is mild form of voter suppression, it is seen as mainly right wing folks love the 2A so they are more likely to have a permit hence easier for them to vote so it is advantageous to Republicans not Democrats. If there was Mensa permit or licence that allowed you to vote, the Republicans would be up in arms saying it was advantageous to Democrats. Things that make it easier for Republicans to vote is easier in some states, things that would make it easier for Dems to vote are ruled out, making turn out lower. Lower turn out in most states is what gets GOP elected.
Manic Moran wrote: » Two things. 1) There is no federal license to carry, so the federal agencies aren't involved. 2) It does not promote gun ownership. It enables those who wish to carry their gun to so do in a regulated manner. As opposed to an unregulated manner in either legal areas (where no permit is required at all) or illegally where no permissions are granted at all.
Manic Moran wrote: » That's a daft argument. The State issues ID cards which are easier to get than a firearms permit. If you can get a firearms permit, you can damned well get a state ID card. I got my Kentucky State ID card in fifteen minutes from walking into the county office to leaving with it in my pocket. The reason I don't have a Texas State ID card is that I already have the harder-to-get drivers' license and firearms permit which do the ID functions and more. It may be that conservative folks are statistically more likely to seek to obtain a carry permit, but that has no relevance when it comes to the difficulty of seeking to obtain any form of accepted State ID for voting at all. Texas State ID card requirements. https://www.dps.texas.gov/driverlicense/applyforid.htm Texas carry card requirements. https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/LTC/faqs/index.htm
Manic Moran wrote: » That's a daft argument. The State issues ID cards which are easier to get than a firearms permit. If you can get a firearms permit, you can damned well get a state ID card. I got my Kentucky State ID card in fifteen minutes from walking into the county office to leaving with it in my pocket. The reason I don't have a Texas State ID card is that I already have the harder-to-get drivers' license and firearms permit which do the ID functions and more. It may be that conservative folks are statistically more likely to seek to obtain a carry permit, but that has no relevance when it comes to the difficulty of seeking to obtain any form of accepted State ID for voting at all. If you're a conservative (or not) who wants to carry a gun, then jump through the extra hoops. If you're not a conservative (or not) who wants to carry a gun, don't jump through those extra hoops. Most people jump through the extra hoops of getting a driver's license. If you don't want a driver's license, don't jump through those hoops either. Aren't conservatives more likely to have a driver's license? After all, they are less likely to live in cities with good public transport like San Francisco or New York City. Texas State ID card requirements. https://www.dps.texas.gov/driverlicense/applyforid.htm Texas carry card requirements. https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/LTC/faqs/index.htm
FrostyJack wrote: » Why are people poor, why don't they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps? That is the same as your argument. The legislation isn't to stop you or I voting.
Foxtrol wrote: » GOP states make it much more difficult for poor minority areas for both voting and access to IDs. There are examples of DMVs to get IDs open once a month and no public transport to get to others.
Quin_Dub wrote: » A student or work ID isn't accepted so in order for you to vote you potentially have to shell out anything up to $200 to get a drivers license , when you don't drive and don't have a car , just so you can vote..
Manic Moran wrote: » Absolutely not the same. There are two different discussions one can debate. 1. Should ID be required to vote? 1b. If yes, how difficult should it be to get such an ID? (That’s the voter suppression bit people argue over. The “easiest” ID to get is the standard by which such a requirement must be judged) 2. Where ID is required, should a carry permit issued by the state be accepted as proof of ID in the case that the person in question has neither a driver’s license or ID card, also issued by the State? Item 2 is not a voter suppression issue. If you cannot get the easiest level of ID required to vote, you certainly cannot get the tougher one, so the lack or otherwise of the tougher one is irrelevant.
Manic Moran wrote: » The above is incorrect. I am unaware of any State which requires a driver’s license to vote and does not accept a State ID. Data from 2015, but presumably not much changed since. 7 States charge more than $25 for a State ID. California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Florida. 10 States charge less than $10. Tennessee, Iowa, Maine, Ohio, North Dakota, South Carolina, Arkansas, Indiana, Wisconsin, Kansas. All other States charge between $10-25, the median being $16. Of the 50, for those who cannot afford the price of the ID card, which isn’t exactly exorbitant, 33 do hardship waivers. One does not need to learn to drive a car to vote.
Foxtrol wrote: » Do they also pay for their taxis across the city to the nice suburb to get their ID?
What you haven't dealt with is the angle of suppression when other forms of IDs that are tougher to get than the easiest level are not accepted but carry permits are.
Manic Moran wrote: » The above is incorrect. I am unaware of any State which requires a driver’s license to vote and does not accept a State ID. Data from 2015, but presumably not much changed since. 7 States charge more than $25 for a State ID. California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Florida. 10 States charge less than $10. Tennessee, Iowa, Maine, Ohio, North Dakota, South Carolina, Arkansas, Indiana, Wisconsin, Kansas. All other States charge between $10-25, the median being $16 (which, as it happens, is Where Texas is) Of the 50, for those who cannot afford the price of the ID card, which isn’t exactly exorbitant, 33 do hardship waivers. One does not need to learn to drive a car to vote.
Overheal wrote: » This doesn't refute the charge that student ID is not accepted. South Carolackey, SC Driver's License Includes standard license and REAL ID SC Department of Motor Vehicles ID Card Includes standard ID card and REAL ID Includes SC Concealed Weapons Permit SC Voter Registration Card with Photo Federal Military ID Includes all Department of Defense Photo IDs and Veterans Affairs Benefits Card US Passport Includes US Passport ID Card Doesn't include Student IDs, even from land grant institutions.
Manic Moran wrote: » Of course not. Personally, it’s $2.75 return for me to take the 503 bus, and I don’t even need to worry about parking at the other end
What is harder to get than a State ID, which should count but does not? The requirements are normally pretty basic. I’ve already linked to Texas, but I’m happy to look at the state of your choosing. I would be even more intrigued by an ID more difficult to get than a carry permit which is not accepted.
Again, comparing your access to public transport in a middle/upper class areas to your local DMV, which apparently doesnt even have lines, to the experience of poor minority communities is useless.
Foxtrol wrote: » Student IDs, especially college IDs, require as much information to be provided if not more than the 'easiest' ID required in Texas but they aren't accepted. Many states, including red states do accept them. It isn't surprising to think why the GOP in Texas wouldn't want to make it easier for young people to vote.
Manic Moran wrote: » I'm not sure SC proves a case. If you look at how you get a student ID from USC, for example, you are required to have a substantiating ID which if you bring to the polling station is good enough anyway (State ID, passport, military ID). https://sc.edu/about/offices_and_divisions/carolinacard/. The further question is the matter of oversight. There is government oversight of how the federal military issues IDs, or how states issue IDs. What is the government oversight on USC ID cards? Let alone private institutions. What are the forgery protections on a USC ID card? Every form of ID on that list above is issued by a government. That's assuming you didn't throw away your voter registration card which you got when you registered, which itself is a precondition to voting. The photo version is free, you just need to show up at a DMV to have the photo taken, but even if you don't have the photo version, you can still vote by signing an affadavit.
Itssoeasy wrote: » To get away the ID debate donald trump hasn't completed his yearly physical six months on and the White House isn't saying why that is. Also, trump is saying that places of worship are "essential" and is ordering them to open and claims he can overrule governors to get them open. It's funny how his stance on the powers he has in relations to states changes depending on the issue. Also, isn't god at least in the Christian sense meant to be omnipresent and so is everywhere so why would you need to open a place of worship when he's everywhere ? Again I may be inserting logic where it's not needed.
