FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Mortelaro wrote: »

Sinn Fein voters were promised FF in government would be a disaster though

On their own or in coalition with FG.

Put it this way: I was happy SF would stand up to both FG and FF in a coalition and would not repeat the lazy 'we are happy just to be in the comfy seats' mistakes of Labour and the Greens etc.

I have said it before...(MM's opening of the door etc) that it is that strength that FF and FG fear, not the high moral ground stuff they hide behind.

You like jam on both sides of your bread
I don't recall MLM stating her party would tame FF or FG
She emphasised they'd be a disaster though

But the reality is she needs one and gene pool independents
They don't need her
That was the electorates decision

dundalkfc10

Mortelaro wrote: »

You like jam on both sides of your bread
I don't recall MLM stating her party would tame FF or FG
She emphasised they'd be a disaster though

But the reality is she needs one and gene pool independents
They don't need her
That was the electorates decision

https://www.rte.ie/news/campaign-daily/2020/0130/1112005-sinn-fein/

"McDonald does not rule out coalition with FG or FF" before the election.

Any more lies?

RandomViewer

Think the Coveney faction are getting ratty, all the attacks in the S indo on Covid payments by Harris and the other columnists and the multiple threads attacking it here smells of FG tradionalists, Coveney has burned his bridges to be Taoiseach ,scuppering Varadkers plans will be his main focus ,

Mortelaro wrote: »

You like jam on both sides of your bread
I don't recall MLM stating her party would tame FF or FG
She emphasised they'd be a disaster though

But the reality is she needs one and gene pool independents
They don't need her
That was the electorates decision

Interesting that you introduce the word 'tame'. I didn't use that word.

What I said was 'stand up' to FF or FG. In other words, negotiate a programme for government that addressed the key areas of their mandate. They stated this many times.

FG/FF always had the option to sledgehammer a coalition together or to buy one with bypasses and freebies etc. The way it has been done in the past. That's still an option for them if the Greens walk away.

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/campaign-daily/2020/0130/1112005-sinn-fein/

"McDonald does not rule out coalition with FG or FF" before the election.

Any more lies?

Hahaha, you don't seriously think MLM or SF had any intent on doing a deal with FG
That was a Roose
She was interested in disgruntled FF voters though and she got some

dundalkfc10

Deleted User wrote: »

The way it stands FF/FG dont want em in (as in their right),but the fact they happy to speak to aontu (anti-abortion shinners)

,just points to hyprocrisy on their part imo

personally speaking,id not support sf as a junior partner in a coalition,with those two,but would in a temp nationl government,but seemingly these arent allowed here

Thats fair enough if they dont want them.

FF promised their voters they wouldnt go with FG before the election, when every tom dick and harry knew they were lying.

No matter what parties go into Govt, it wont last 1 year never mind 5 years.

As has been proven over time, the youth and younger people want FF and FG out, the way they are acting it will happen sooner rather than later.

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Thats fair enough if they dont want them.

FF promised their voters they wouldnt go with FG before the election, when every tom dick and harry knew they were lying.

No matter what parties go into Govt, it wont last 1 year never mind 5 years.

As has been proven over time, the youth and younger people want FF and FG out, the way they are acting it will happen sooner rather than later.

You are seeing the electorate kick back against the habits of the 100 year old power swap.
Manifesto's that aren't worth the paper they are written on they have been so devalued.
Pre-election posturing and bollix talk that as you say, 'everyone' knows is lying (no other word for it)

The leadership challenge in the Greens is a symptom of this. Deep dissatisfaction there because the younger members are savvy enough to know FF/FG have no intention of delivering on whatever promises they make to Eamon Ryan..part of the Green team that got conned before.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are seeing the electorate kick back against the habits of the 100 year old power swap.
Manifesto's that aren't worth the paper they are written on they have been so devalued.
Pre-election posturing and bollix talk that as you say, 'everyone' knows is lying (no other word for it)

The leadership challenge in the Greens is a symptom of this. Deep dissatisfaction there because the younger members are savvy enough to know FF/FG have no intention of delivering on whatever promises they make to Eamon Ryan..part of the Green team that got conned before.

Another election would be great.

Might see the end of the greens.

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

As has been proven over time, the youth and younger people want FF and FG out, the way they are acting it will happen sooner rather than later.

You'll have to work on Kerry;)

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

On their own or in coalition with FG.

Put it this way: I was happy SF would stand up to both FG and FF in a coalition and would not repeat the lazy 'we are happy just to be in the comfy seats' mistakes of Labour and the Greens etc.

I have said it before...(MM's opening of the door etc) that it is that strength that FF and FG fear, not the high moral ground stuff they hide behind.

In fairness Wardy 16 and a few more would be a great asset to the free state.

Uhmmm...

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are seeing the electorate kick back against the habits of the 100 year old power swap.
Manifesto's that aren't worth the paper they are written on they have been so devalued.
Pre-election posturing and bollix talk that as you say, 'everyone' knows is lying (no other word for it)

The leadership challenge in the Greens is a symptom of this. Deep dissatisfaction there because the younger members are savvy enough to know FF/FG have no intention of delivering on whatever promises they make to Eamon Ryan..part of the Green team that got conned before.

The electorate jumped on the popular bandwagon issues. SF were caught out because they didn't realise people were giving them protest votes. Likewise many voted green to give a nod to Greta and climate action.

Were we to have a new election then I think people will be more concerned about jobs and the economy and voting green would have a huge actual impact on them directly.

Hardly a peep about the housing crisis nowadays.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The electorate jumped on the popular bandwagon issues. SF were caught out because they didn't realise people were giving them protest votes. Likewise many voted green to give a nod to Greta and climate action.

Were we to have a new election then I think people will be more concerned about jobs and the economy and voting green would have a huge actual impact on them directly.

Hardly a peep about the housing crisis nowadays.

So the fall from 84% voteshare to 44% is just a populist reactionary fad?

Alrighty!

christy c wrote: »

Tbf the FG and SF threads are interchangeable, its difficult to tell one from the other. Its not a deliberate attempt by me to deflect.

It's pointless discussing any particular party in a vacum, as I said I choose the least worst. So for example if party X punched me in the face, theres no point spending ages saying how terrible they are if party Y promise to shoot me in the head.

Again I vote based on best of a bad lot, so if you see the reasons why I dont like SF, you could see how I would end up voting someone else (even if you dont agree with it).

I'm all for discussing and comparing parties. It's when you criticise FG government policy or the actions of a specific minister that you get the rodeo clown antics of folk running in waving hankies about the 'RA and something some councillor said years ago. It just ends in tit for tat bull.

Look at these examples:

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You didn't even read the Sinn Fein Manifesto and you voted for them. Which suggest you read none of the parties manifesto's.

Yet you are on here everyday as if you are a political expert.

mattser wrote: »

Yea. They spend all day here as a relay team spouting the same scutter. Total hypocrites.

Seems to me you don't like SF because they remind you of Bertie style FF yet are supporting a FF/FG marriage, which is your right.
I don't think SF are ready, but based on the damage FF/FG do I'll take SF. I'd rather the SD's had a stronger presence and even PBP. I don't see FF/FG looking after the tax payer or making decisions with the tax payer in mind.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

How do you figure it's better for the country?
There is no new politics, just different politicians and until we get a Govt without FG or FF then your post is just pure conjecture.
I can't wait for the day SF coalesce with either FF or FG, then I wonder how the non shinner shinners will be able to point to the positives of that.

I am and will be very disappointed when/if any party I've hopes for goes in with FF/FG.
Of course it is, except for what FF/FG would be like.
Not everybody has a team. I don't care who 'wins' as long as they do right by the tax payer and society.

Floppybits

Bowie wrote: »

Seems to me you don't like SF because they remind you of Bertie style FF yet are supporting a FF/FG marriage, which is your right.
I don't think SF are ready, but based on the damage FF/FG do I'll take SF. I'd rather the SD's had a stronger presence and even PBP. I don't see FF/FG looking after the tax payer or making decisions with the tax payer in mind.

I would agree with you 100% here. If the SD's could grow and get stronger to give another option would be a good thing. The more options that are there form a government with parties going into government on a equal footing and not what we have seen here with the large party vs the small party and the small party are suppose to be the ones to keep the large party in check but will supposedly, as we are told, get punished if they pull down the government.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Hardly a peep about the housing crisis nowadays.

Gee whizz, I wonder why?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the fall from 84% voteshare to 44% is just a populist reactionary fad?

Alrighty!

Nope, a lot of it is diversification of the vote as more parties and independents became available
The protest vote is never more than 10 or 11% tops which can go anywhere even back to base at times as it's never all the same people in it
No one should seriously rely on a protest vote or claim the diversification as their own
That would be the height of arrogance

Floppybits wrote: »

I would agree with you 100% here. If the SD's could grow and get stronger to give another option would be a good thing. The more options that are there form a government with parties going into government on a equal footing and not what we have seen here with the large party vs the small party and the small party are suppose to be the ones to keep the large party in check but will supposedly, as we are told, get punished if they pull down the government.

Both Labour and the Greens before them would have likely won more respect had they brought down those governments. It was sitting on their hands got them punished IMO.

The Greens look like going for it again, unless maybe Martin challenges Eamo.
I'd say MM and LV are loving it.
There's a strong possibility FG are just putting on a show before we have another election. This is defo MM last waltz anyway.

Mortelaro wrote: »

Nope, a lot of it is diversification of the vote as more parties and independents became available
The protest vote is never more than 10 or 11% tops which can go anywhere even back to base at times as it's never all the same people in it
No one should seriously rely on a protest vote or claim the diversification as their own
That would be the height of arrogance

Or disregard the trend of the SF vote increase, of which I posted earlier in this thread.

McMurphy wrote: »

Or disregard the trend of the SF vote increase, of which I posted earlier in this thread.

How high do you think it will go?

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The electorate jumped on the popular bandwagon issues. SF were caught out because they didn't realise people were giving them protest votes. Likewise many voted green to give a nod to Greta and climate action.

Were we to have a new election then I think people will be more concerned about jobs and the economy and voting green would have a huge actual impact on them directly.

Hardly a peep about the housing crisis nowadays.

Bandwagon issues like housing, homelessness, health, education, climate change?
Any vote for any party bar the sitting government can be called a protest vote.

*peep*

Family homelessness quadrupled in space of six years as crisis in housing spiralled
For the past year, the total number of homeless adults and children in the country has hovered around 10,000, more than three times the figure when the Department of Housing began standardising data collection in 2014.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-homelessness-quadrupled-in-space-of-six-years-as-crisis-in-housing-spiralled-39202369.html

Brendan Bendar

Bowie wrote: »

I'm all for discussing and comparing parties. It's when you criticise FG government policy or the actions of a specific minister that you get the rodeo clown antics of folk running in waving hankies about the 'RA and something some councillor said years ago. It just ends in tit for tat bull.

Look at these examples:

Seems to me you don't like SF because they remind you of Bertie style FF yet are supporting a FF/FG marriage, which is your right.
I don't think SF are ready, but based on the damage FF/FG do I'll take SF. I'd rather the SD's had a stronger presence and even PBP. I don't see FF/FG looking after the tax payer or making decisions with the tax payer in mind.

What do you mean by “looking after the taxpayer”?

Could you explain the concept of making decisions “with the taxpayer in mind”

Given that FG dragged the country from a basket case to full employment AND had enough in reserve by prudent governance to avoid complete overrun from C19, on their own with a few Indos, I find it difficult to figure out your expectation of “damage” in the future.

Hopefully you are not confusing it with breaking out the coffers and lashing out the easy money before sinking without trace like many other lads from the TIGER era who like Icarus of old, flew too close to the sun.

Think of Greece, a chara, you can only get away with pruning the money tree for so long.

christy c

Bowie wrote: »

Seems to me you don't like SF because they remind you of Bertie style FF yet are supporting a FF/FG marriage, which is your right.
I don't think SF are ready, but based on the damage FF/FG do I'll take SF. I'd rather the SD's had a stronger presence and even PBP. I don't see FF/FG looking after the tax payer or making decisions with the tax payer in mind.

I've already specifically said I dont like SF because of their stupid policies, not because of who they remind me of.

I am hopeful that a sensible centre right party might emerge from this, if it does I will be straight out of the blocks to vote for them.

Mortelaro wrote: »

How high do you think it will go?

Who's to say?

I think the suggestion they would overtake FGs seat share was scoffed at earlier in the year though.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

What do you mean by “looking after the taxpayer”?

Could you explain the concept of making decisions “with the taxpayer in mind”

...

Investing in social and affordable housing stock rather than partnering with private business so much.
No more cronyism or sweet deals at a loss to the tax payer.
Being fiscally conservative and prudent when engaging in multi-million/billion euro projects, keeping tabs, doing due diligence etc.

McMurphy wrote: »

Who's to say?

I think the suggestion they would overtake FGs seat share was scoffed at earlier in the year though.

Do you think FG will overtake their seat share next time?

Mortelaro wrote: »

Do you think FG will overtake their seat share next time?

Hard to say we this point, I'll wait on my previous Paddy Power punt being settled, and for an actual election to be called (and if FG have another meltdown during it) before I start betting on another.