LillySV wrote: » What’s full time hours to u? I’m sure current emergency services personnel might consider your hours like a half day... Lots of Staff in c service working well over their hours at moment to keep the country running and losing the hours... not getting paid for them or gettin to keep the hours for a later period as flexi hours system gone...
Deleted User wrote: » Why is it such a source of pride to work longer hours. What is wrong with a 35 hr week. Instead of lambasting a 35 or 37 hr week for public servants why not push for it in the private sector. Are we big supposed to be more efficient and productive with technology in 2020.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Do you have a source for that HEO alignment please?
Politicians' Pay Wed, Jul 8, 1998, 01:00 Sir, - The Fianna Fail chairman of the Members Services Sub-Committee wants to place TDs on an incremental scale linked to the civil service pay structure so that TDs' pay would be fairer! TDs' pay and allowances have always been linked to civil servants' pay. In the 1970s, they were linked to the Higher Executive Officer pay rates, in current terms approximately £26,000 max. In the 1980s, they were linked to Assistant Principal Officer rates, in current terms approximately £36,000 max, and in the 1990s, they are linked to Principal Officer rates, approximately £43,000. Unlike Mr Tony Killeen, I consider this to be a matter of great public concern. This incremental inflationary linkage to selected civil service pay rates is obviously a one-way relationship and surely bears comparison with Caligula's granting a consulship to his horse. Not alone is their pay excessive but the number of TDs is excessive; their junketeering is excessive; their egos are excessive if they think the public does not care; and, worst of all, their corruption is excessive as the public has found out to its cost. Next time Mr Killeen places himself before the electorate, he should tell his constituents what he represents, viz more taxes so that he and all those TDs who agree with him can be paid more. - Yours, etc., Mari Barrett, Castlegar, Galway.
Politicians' pay Sat, Nov 22, 2003, 00:00 At a time when the Coalition Government is demanding modernisation and cutbacks within the public service, it must reform its own affairs. For many years, Ministers and Oireachtas members were poorly paid. One of the reasons was that their pay awards had to be ratified by the Dáil and Seanad. And governments were reluctant to annoy the electorate by proposing increases for themselves. The old system came to an end following the Buckley report of 1998. The pay of TDs and senators was increased substantially and linked to that of principal officers in the civil service. Since then, however, a range of new and generous allowances for additional Oireachtas responsibilities has been introduced. And the old expenses system, which was used to prop up inadequate salaries during hard times, has been left unreformed.
Informal talks underway in nurses row Sun, Apr 22, 2007, 01:00 The Minister also defended politicians' pay adding that it was linked to pay rates for the most senior civil servants. Since 1997 a TD's salary has gone up by €65,000 while the wages a minister earns increased by €90,000.
mariaalice wrote: » Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.
Danzy wrote: » I think there are very few economists who are advocating pay cuts in this time. There is going to be a severe challenge to get people spending at all after this. Giving them reason to be fearful about income is not going to help that.
J DEERE wrote: » Ya know I've always had an issue with the term "unskilled". Every job no matter how menial requires a certain amount or level of skill to complete. Also, you're getting exactly what you signed up for. You made a decision when you took on your position to be a frontline worker. As did guards, nurses, doctors etc. That means running towards the fire when others are running away from it. Supermarket workers didn't. I'm sure you were aware of the job requirements when you took it.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » So what do you want - two states? The Thatcherite dream? Being able to switch providers isn't much help when they're all pretty much the same when it comes to price and cost. I take it you haven't listened to Joe's deep sighs and uninformed attacks on every public service then? Seeking new employment like this?https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/four-hse-staff-sacked-for-abuse-of-sick-leave-226647.html Pensions are paid from current expenditure. If we wanted to switch to a DC scheme, we would have to pay pensions of current pensions AND pay contributions to the DC scheme for pensions of current staff for a generation. This is the cash flow issue. You clearly don't understand the difference between policy and operations. Dept Health sets policy. HSE implements policy. It's not hard really. And sure, great idea to rule out the consultants - we'll now need to double the size of the civil service so that internal staff can do all that work instead. You're ready to fund that, right? It's not the cost of government that has risen exponentially like rents and property over recent years. Have you any actual experience of working in the public sector? Because the picture you paint is very different to my actual experience. So you want to repeat the benchmarking process of the early 2000s then? Something like the TD's annual declaration of interests that SIPO publish? Or the lobbying register published each quarter? Does it surprise you to find that your great proposals have already been done?
Dylan94 wrote: » This is very different to last time, they will want to increase spending
da_miser wrote: » There will be no pay cuts
addaword wrote: » Wait and see, it is inevitable that public sector pay will be brought closer to both private sector pay in Ireland , and public sector pay elsewhere. The government cannot afford it any more. Most older public servants are earning far more than they can spend. The private sector suffered how many pay cuts and redundancies ?
smelly sock wrote: » Post of the day without a doubt, if not the Month.
Dylan94 wrote: » I agree, I think that if anything public service pay will increase as planned in October and once again in January once the new deal is done. Leo has spoke a number of times now of expanding the public service. This is very different to last time, they will want to increase spending (both government spending and personal spending). Cutting public servants pay will essentially give the green light for the private sector to cut their pay (those that don't actually need to). This would cause much longer lasting damage to our economy than the coronavirus did. I also think that a lot of people forget that one of the reasons for good pay and conditions in the public sector is to raise the wages and conditions of everyone. If you can get a job on better pay and better conditions from the government then you are going to take it. If business want to ensure that they are able to get employees then they will have to improve their pay or conditions or both to attract people.
Danzy wrote: » Lot of people living in bubbles going on about some student getting 350 a week or public sector wages but they refuse to look at the bigger picture.
blanch152 wrote: » That pension pot worth 1.8 million is nonsense, as it is an individual calculation which takes no account of the fact that a Garda is in a collective pension scheme. It is like comparing apples and oranges.
addaword wrote: » Wait and see, it is inevitable that public sector pay will be brought closer to both private sector pay in Ireland
blanch152 wrote: » Is it really possible to cut the pay of nurses in the aftermath of Covid-19? Yes, I think the increase due in October will be deferred, possibly with a promise of back-payment when the finances allow, and the next deal will not be as generous as previously expected. However, there are many public servants whose rate of pay is still below the 2008 rate - the scope for cuts is therefore limited.
tastyt wrote: » This is a serious question and not an attempt to get under anyone’s skin According to nurse.org Irish nurses are in the top 5 best paid nurses in the world. I believe it is the same for our police force. Our teachers have much higher rates than other countries too. I have no problem with them being paid well as it’s a tough job but why are they always complaining about their pay when it is obviously so good compared to almost all other countries in the world. There will probably be a comeback of starting pay, is lower or nurses in Australia or Dubai or somewhere earn more or have better conditions. Cost of living is another usual one, but we all have the same cost of living in this country whether we work in Google or the local coffee shop. But is that what it has come to, do our public servants expect to be paid better than any other public servants in the whole world with far larger economies that are not dependent on others half as much as we are? Are we always going to compare ourselves in pay to the no 1 in the world and threaten to strike and bring the country to a standstill if we don’t compare favourably ?
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Yes
da_miser wrote: » There will be no pay cuts Any pay cut would be met with ructions and all out strikes, money will be cut from the budget that goes to Quangos, NGO's and other vanity and virtue signaling projects. If we are lucky the Government will take this golden opportunity to cut the fat from the budget, cut loose all the useless wastes of tax payer money.
LillySV wrote: » Benchmarking tds and ministers ? U think they did a big review of tds and ministers and reformed it to a clear transparent system where they are working hard for the benefit of the public? In regard to publishing their full earnings, including all their expenses...everything ... shows me where? Declaration of interests in other companies ... who is doing reviews to check this out ? Who is carrying out audits on them?
LillySV wrote: » Benchmarking tds and ministers ? U think they did a big review of tds and ministers and reformed it to a clear transparent system where they are working hard for the benefit of the public?
LillySV wrote: » In regard to publishing their full earnings, including all their expenses...everything ... shows me where?
LillySV wrote: » Declaration of interests in other companies ... who is doing reviews to check this out ? Who is carrying out audits on them?
noodler wrote: » We have more nurses than average in the oecd too, despite having a younger population than average. The IMNO were in the media recently looking for more recruitment. It doesn't bode well. 12k plus additional people working in the HSE since 2015.
Fred Cryton wrote: » No no, silly. This is Ireland. In Ireland, we don't "cut" anything. We instead identify the narrow band of hard working middle income private sector higher rate taxpayers (around 20% of the population), and we simply increase their taxes yet again. More welfare and more public sector pay, sure why not? Wouldn't it be cruel not to? Just identify those people, tax them once again, and then pat yourself on the back for reducing "inequality".
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Thanks, wasn't fully aware of the history. To be honest, the Principal Officer salary is a fairly modest level for a TD imho. If you want to attract smart people who would typically be a director or partner level in any profession, you'd want to be starting at €100k. Two main reasons; 1) Irish nurses/teachers have to pay rent at Irish rent prices, not Sydney prices or Melbourne prices. Irish rent prices have climbed dramatically in the last ten years. Salaries for nurses and teachers have not kept up. 2) The main complaint for teachers is the inequality in the current structure for new entrants, rather than the overall levels. I always think that suggestions like this should include specifics - what particular spending areas are 'useless wastes' in your opinion. That'll be interesting for sure - so public servants will be getting Christmas bonuses, stock options and share purchase schemes, paid Christmas parties, paid health insurance, paid disability insurance, paid professional subscriptions and all the other benefits common in the private sector too? Something like the Buckley report of 1998 mentioned above? So you haven't bothered to look at the information currently provided? What's the point in asking for more information when you haven't bothered to look at what's there? Now you're shifting the goalposts - it's not just publishing the information, you wan't someone to be paid to 'review' and 'audit' this? The press certainly crawl over the information with a fine toothcomb, but again, if you haven't bothered to study this information yourself, it's a bit rich to be looking for more information so you can ignore it.
LillySV wrote: » Show me all this published information? Show me exactly where ? I want to know what each td is getting including expenses:.. u said it’s publicly available... where ? And what press is crawling all over them... as i explained already ...to me it’s fairly clear rte and the indo have vested interests or some sort of arrangement .. they are highlighting or investigating nothing in regards to the govt, tds or ministers .... Show me I’m wrong
Danzy wrote: » The challenge now is to avoid a global depression, by no means certain we will. If spending cuts and belt tightening is the route taken then it is going to be a certainty. Conventional is not going to cut it in this. My business traded with a lot of successful companies in Northern Italy, they are now gone, wiped out. The scale of the crisis facing Western Europe will be a one in a century event, if aggressive stimulus is applied this can be resolved in 12 months to just a bad downturn. The damage done economically across Europe makes 2008 seem like a great time. Lot of people living in bubbles going on about some student getting 350 a week or public sector wages but they refuse to look at the bigger picture. How removed from reality can one be?
addaword wrote: » +1. According to the Irish Times last year, we spend 20% more expenditure per head of population on the hse than the british do on the NHS, yet we have substantially worse outcomes.
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