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Child Item

Daughter wants nothing to do with me

Bog Down

Hi there,

Hope this is in the right place if not could mods please move

So my 14 year old daughter lives with her mom and 12 year old sister. I haven't seen her in nearly 2 years. She decided not to visit anymore. She has blocked my number from her phone and the last reply was about 18 months ago telling me to leave her alone.

Until lockdown came, I had been seeing my 12 year old since last September for 3 hours every second week but it took 6 months of going to a child psychologist to get to that point.

My ex isn't responsive to solving the issues with my 14 year old. She thinks she's fine and would rather she didn't see me.

I could add loads to the above but don't want to turn it into an essay, most of the basic details are there. If you need more info just ask.

I'm looking for advice or shared experience in how to re connect or at least open communications. It is really tough to take I find myself getting really upset at the situation more easily and regularly now

Thanks

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Jenneke87

Okay, so it sounds like there is a lot more going on than we can gather from your post. We don't know the reason why your daughter decided she no longer wants to speak to you, whether that was her own decision, something her mother wanted or if something bad happend between the two of you.

I'm not sure if forcing your daughter to keep in touch is the answer, all you can do ( I think and very much open to correction here) is to let her know that you will always be there for her and she can come back at any time and you will be there for her.

Are you still in touch with your other daughter during lockdown? Do you Skype/text/mail, etc?

Febreeze

From my previous experience having an absantee father, I at 14, actually less I think, told him to leave me alone. No word from my mother. It was my doing. He would wander in and out of my life, like to pop his head in to remind himself that he's somewhat useful. He never was. Up until I was 26 and I pretty much threatened him to leave me alone. I had my reasons.

Yours however? Seems like there's details missing, whether reasonable or not.

I always say there's a reason for something. Things don't just happen. If she was forced to say this by her mother, then at 14, she's still a child and legally you can somewhat fight this but also at 14, she's capilble of making her own choices of who she wants to see.

If you feel that this is her mother talking and not your child, then maybe speak to a professional for advice?

I've been on the opposite end and begged my mother to legally tell my "father" to leave me alone but the hassell wasn't worth it in the end. My mother had 100% gardianship of me and from speaking to professionals, she was basically told "Febreeze's father still has rights until she's 18 so legally they can't make him see me and legally they couldn't make him not see me unless it was a serious reason". I basically knew he was a waste of space from an early age and just got pissed off with him waltzing in and out whatever he fancied it but the end reality of it all is, your daughter is 14 and regardless of what she was or wasn't told, she's still able to decide for herself who she does and doesn't want to see.

I'm late 20s now and I never regretted my decision but your daughter when she comes of age, could decide maybe she would like to reconcile? I don't know your situation but I would say she has her reasons. Please don't force her either. That could driver her away even more.

But, if you desperately want to express your concern and show your love for her, you could always send her a text (or email or letter) expressing how much you love her, that you've wanted nothing but the best for her and that you'll always be there and when's shes ready to talk you'll be there to listen. Leave a number and address. You've left the door open for her so she knows maybe in a few weeks, months or years that her dad is willing to hatch out any problems there was.

Good luck OP.

Finchie1276

Your daughter is 14, we work to raise our kids to make decisions, to be adults, to handle their power and consequences of what they decide. She has made her decision. What do you want to happen? You force her, get your ex wife to force her?
She has said she does not want to see you and for you to leave her alone. That is her choice, not nice for you but that is the outcome she wants. Accept her choice, you don't have to like it but thats OK. Your ex wife is behaving appropriately in respecting your daughters choice.

Away With The Fairies

Finchie1276 wrote: »

Your daughter is 14, we work to raise our kids to make decisions, to be adults, to handle their power and consequences of what they decide. She has made her decision. What do you want to happen? You force her, get your ex wife to force her?
She has said she does not want to see you and for you to leave her alone. That is her choice, not nice for you but that is the outcome she wants. Accept her choice, you don't have to like it but thats OK. Your ex wife is behaving appropriately in respecting your daughters choice.

Should he at least know the reason why? It could be something he can fix. Would family therapy help where he talk things over in a neutral environment?

antix80

Op, your daughter has made her decision and is happy with that decision.

Please, get counselling. Find a way to accept the situation instead of trying to change it.

The best you can hope for is to get to the stage where you can send her a birthday card with "love, dad" written on it and the date in the top-left corner - Without any other message or money in it.

eviltwin

Nobody, not even a 14 year old, stops contact for no reason. I'm just a bit curious though as to why its an issue now when you've been no contact for 2 years.

I feel there's a lot you aren't saying here that could give some insight into what's going on for her. It's your business but its hard to give advice without context.

[Deleted User]

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Should he at least know the reason why? It could be something he can fix. Would family therapy help where he talk things over in a neutral environment?

nothing really in the op suggests that he doesnt know the reasons why, just not shared with the thread as far as i can make out

Senature

Op I would second the advice to get counselling, try to be as open to the process as possible.
I presume the reasons why you have had such limited access is having a bearing on your daughter asking you to leave her alone, is this something you can work on improving yourself?
And I would say definitely let her know you love her and will always be there for her, and follow through on this when she needs you to. If you are having positive interactions with her sister she will be aware of this and it might have a positive impact on your relationship with her too.

Good luck, mind yourself

Finchie1276

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Should he at least know the reason why? It could be something he can fix. Would family therapy help where he talk things over in a neutral environment?

No I don't agree. When someone makes a decision they have the right not to share the rationale for the decision if they choose not to. Maybe if his daughter decides she wants him in her life then she can approach him and then he has the right to agree or not. Family therapy only works if all parties want facilitation or mediation. In this case his daughter has made it clear she does not.

Grab All Association

Mom ðŸ€” an American dialect of the word Mum (U.K./ESC ), Ma (Dublin), Mam (Leinster), Mammy (West and Donegal),

Hannibal_Smith

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Grab All Association, when replying to a thread in PI, posters are asked to give constructive advice to an OP. Please bear this in mind when posting here again.

Jim Root

Finchie1276 wrote: »

Your daughter is 14, we work to raise our kids to make decisions, to be adults, to handle their power and consequences of what they decide. She has made her decision. What do you want to happen? You force her, get your ex wife to force her?
She has said she does not want to see you and for you to leave her alone. That is her choice, not nice for you but that is the outcome she wants. Accept her choice, you don't have to like it but thats OK. Your ex wife is behaving appropriately in respecting your daughters choice.

I don’t agree with this post. A 14 year old is a child, sensitive children can be easily manipulated by a domineering adult. Would you be offering the same advice if the gender roles of the parents were reversed?

Tork

Would talking to an organisation like this help? https://parentalalienation.eu The truth is, none of us knows why your daughter no longer wants to talk to you. Without knowing more, we're all guessing. Maybe you are too? Did you do something that affected the relationship with you kids? Did your ex turn them against you? They're very different ends of the spectrum but have similar results.

Finchie1276

Jim Root wrote: »

I don’t agree with this post. A 14 year old is a child, sensitive children can be easily manipulated by a domineering adult. Would you be offering the same advice if the gender roles of the parents were reversed?

Gender has nothing to do with it. She made a choice, sensitive or not, it's her choice to make and at 14 we can only offer guidance on most things. She decided she didn't want to continue to see her dad. She is entitled to make that decision.

What's your solution?

splinter65

Bog Down wrote: »

Hi there,

Hope this is in the right place if not could mods please move

So my 14 year old daughter lives with her mom and 12 year old sister. I haven't seen her in nearly 2 years. She decided not to visit anymore. She has blocked my number from her phone and the last reply was about 18 months ago telling me to leave her alone.

Until lockdown came, I had been seeing my 12 year old since last September for 3 hours every second week but it took 6 months of going to a child psychologist to get to that point.

My ex isn't responsive to solving the issues with my 14 year old. She thinks she's fine and would rather she didn't see me.

I could add loads to the above but don't want to turn it into an essay, most of the basic details are there. If you need more info just ask.

I'm looking for advice or shared experience in how to re connect or at least open communications. It is really tough to take I find myself getting really upset at the situation more easily and regularly now

Thanks

Sorry you’re finding life hard at the moment big down. I’m afraid there is not enough information in your post for anyone to offer you any solid advice apart from to seek counseling and to know that none of this needs to be permanent, it can all be made ok with some hard work on behalf of the adults.

Sinead Mc1

Hi Bogdown
Just wanted to say - look after yourself.
Estrangement from a child is extremely difficult. Part of that is because some people will always assume that the adult must have done something horrendous to deserve such treatment.
It is a very isolating place to be and there is much shame attached, often unwarranted.
Frequently there are so many other factors involved and fathers in particular can be disregarded.
I've seen this first hand.
Weather you have, or haven't, done anything to upset your daughter enough to make her take this stand then I suggest you put a text/letter out there. Tell her how much you love her and that your door is always open.
That is all you can do.
Talk to those who know you and know what you're about.
Concentrate on yourself for now and remain hopeful that things will change.

splinter65

Sinead Mc1 wrote: »

Hi Splinter65.
Just wanted to say - look after yourself.
Estrangement from a child is extremely difficult. Part of that is because some people will always assume that the adult must have done something horrendous to deserve such treatment.
It is a very isolating place to be and there is much shame attached, often unwarranted.
Frequently there are so many other factors involved and fathers in particular can be disregarded.

I've seen this first hand.
Weather you have, or haven't, done anything to upset your daughter enough to make her take this stand then I suggest you put a text/letter out there. Tell her how much you love her and that your door is always open.
That is all you can do.
Talk to those who know you and know what you're about.
Concentrate on yourself for now and remain hopeful that things will change.

Hi. I’m not the OP. Easy to get mixed up.

Sinead Mc1

splinter65 wrote: »

Hi. I’m not the OP. Easy to get mixed up.

Sorry Splinter 65.
Edited.

qwerty13

I think it’s hard for anyone to evaluate the situation as you don’t give any details OP.

However, I agree with others that your 14 yo daughter is old enough to make her own choice, and that should be respected. I think writing a letter to say that you love her and will always be there for her is a good thing.

There may well be reasons behind her decision, eg were you an absent father in the past, did you flit in and out of her life ... the list could go on. But you haven’t disclosed any background, and that’s your call. I would say if there are semi-abandonment issues, well you have to earn her trust.

Equally, there could be no concrete reason for her decision. Or it could be led by her mother. The posters here just don’t know.

She’s not a small child though. She has some agency at 14 yo, and she’s chosen not to see you. Do you think there’s any reason behind that from your behaviour? Or from the breakup? She could of course be just having a hard time with the breakup and have shut down a bit.

I think all you can do is be there for her if and when she comes back to you, and get help with working on your acceptance of that for now. I’m sure it’s very upsetting for you. I hope you can feel better soon.

Bog Down

Thanks to everyone for their input so far.

I deliberately didn't want to go into too much as I felt it may be too long but I can see more context is needed.

I send her cards and presents to mark occasions and always let her know how much I love her and am there for her if and when she wants to get in touch. I also have sent her little notes a couple of times randomly letting her know the same. I wasn't an absent father during my marriage or after the break up.

My daughter refused to see the psychologist apart from the first time when the judge ordered a report to be done. This happened a couple of months after she refused to come over anymore. The psychologist has tried to speak to her but to no avail and has told me she feels my ex isn't encouraging her to so her hands are tied. She feels my daughter has a lot of anger towards me and really needs some help but my ex refuses to co operate with this. My solicitor says unless both are willing to engage there's nothing anyone can do. No judge will force a 14 year old into counselling if she doesn't want it. For what it's worth I wouldn't like to force her either but both me and the child psychologist believes she needs help.

To the main point you have been making:
I have a fair idea why she doesn't want to see me, despite the way I worded it in the first post it wasn't a sudden event it had been going downhill for about 6 months. I tried to talk with her about it when it started but she said nothing was wrong. I buried my head in the sand and thought it was just her becoming a teenager. I really should have listened more but I didn't waft to face up to it.
My ex used to send constant messages to my daughter during our time together asking her to come home as she missed them. Telling her they'd do something fun if she came home. Wanting to know what we were doing at all times. Bad mouthing my girlfriend through texts to my daughter which she showed me herself. Not wanting her seeing my family the list goes on and on.
I think my older daughter took the break up really badly and even though my ex got with someone fairly soon after we broke up, I think me having a girlfriend eventually contributed to it as well as it was probably the final nail in the coffin so to speak for her mom and dad to re unite. Add to the pressure at home made it easier not to continue seeing me as it just made her mom angry and sad.

I don't know how to fix any of the above. I would really like a relationship with my daughter but more importantly I want to know she's ok and not bottling up feelings. If she somehow went to the psychologist and worked through with her and still didn't want me to see her then I could probably find peace with that. At the moment it's nothing.

Hopefully I've helped clear up a few bits sorry for the length.

eviltwin

I still feel there is a lot you are not saying her OP. What was the relationship with your daughter like while you were still with her mother? How is her relationship with other people from your side of the family, your parents, siblings etc? What was the reason for suggesting that she go to a psychologist, was there any major event or trauma that she was exposed to in the home before you left? This might just help you understand where your daughter is at emotionally at the moment and why she is choosing not to see you.

You can't force your daughter to get counselling nor should you push it. As difficult as it is i think you need to step back from it and focus on your relationship with your younger child. Keep writing the letters and sending the cards but avoid any over emotional stuff. Be mindful how you speak about her and your ex to your youngest child and maybe consider some counselling yourself on how best to navigate things.

As a parent myself I have huge empathy for you and how this much hurt but as an adult child who went no contact with a parent I also have huge empathy for your daughter who has her reasons for her decision. These have to be respected and validated too.

Hannibal_Smith

I was going to suggest going back to the solicitor Bog Down, because sometimes something can be agreed when there is a go-between there to move it along. But I see you've already done it, and their response makes sense.

So she's laid the blame for the break up at your door and is angry with you because of that? I think talking to someone yourself would be helpful, because despite all the avenues you've tried, you can't change how your daughter is reacting. But you can try and get ways to cope with it.

If she went to see the psychologist as part of the separation proceedings, was there a report done up and everyone (yourself, your ex and the legal teams) got to read it ? Could she be worried that if she goes back to them that the same thing will happen? Could you reassure her, through a card or letter, or through your ex (though she doesn't sound very helpful in all of this?) that if she goes to talk to someone, it will be completely private and for her own personal benefit and nothing will be passed on to any third party, including yourself or your ex?

I think sending the cards and presents is a lovely idea, because there's a big chance that she will one day realise that she was being very harsh. When that day comes, she will have the cards or at least the memory of receiving them and it might help her at that time. In the meantime, letting her know you are always there for her is a lot and probably as much as you can do for now.

Senature

Your poor daughter, from your second post it does seem like a big part of the problem is how difficult she finds feeling torn between her parents. It makes her decision understandable, but not one that seems to be in her best interests overall.

This is parental alienation, as mentioned in a previous post. In parts of the US courts apparently consider it abuse of the child by the resident parent as the child is being denied a supportive, loving relationship that they are entitled to, crave and need. Unfortunately Ireland has a lot of catching up to do in this area.

For the record, I completely disagree with the posters saying this is her right and decision to make. She is 14. If 14 year olds were capable of making important decisions for themselves they could live in a home with no adults present, would be tried for crimes as adults, be able to vote for governments etc. This is obviously nit the case, and with good reason.

Op while you are presumeably not faultless in the break up of your marriage, this situation is not your fault. Your daughter is being manipulated. I wish you all the best.

splinter65

Senature wrote: »

Your poor daughter, from your second post it does seem like a big part of the problem is how difficult she finds feeling torn between her parents. It makes her decision understandable, but not one that seems to be in her best interests overall.

This is parental alienation, as mentioned in a previous post. In parts of the US courts apparently consider it abuse of the child by the resident parent as the child is being denied a supportive, loving relationship that they are entitled to, crave and need. Unfortunately Ireland has a lot of catching up to do in this area.

For the record, I completely disagree with the posters saying this is her right and decision to make. She is 14. If 14 year olds were capable of making important decisions for themselves they could live in a home with no adults present, would be tried for crimes as adults, be able to vote for governments etc. This is obviously nit the case, and with good reason.

Op while you are presumeably not faultless in the break up of your marriage, this situation is not your fault. Your daughter is being manipulated. I wish you all the best.

There is absolutely no evidence in what the OP has told us to support any of your allegations here. None.
We have no idea of the circumstances that led up to the breakdown in the relationship of the child’s parents.
And I’d be very concerned that you would think that you could physically force a 14 year old to spend time with a parent that she didn’t want to spend time with right now.
Do you think she should be hand cuffed or something? Do you think that would be helpful?

Senature

splinter65 wrote: »

There is absolutely no evidence in what the OP has told us to support any of your allegations here. None.
We have no idea of the circumstances that led up to the breakdown in the relationship of the child’s parents.
And I’d be very concerned that you would think that you could physically force a 14 year old to spend time with a parent that she didn’t want to spend time with right now.
Do you think she should be hand cuffed or something? Do you think that would be helpful?

The op said this, which is what I was basing my reply on:
My ex used to send constant messages to my daughter during our time together asking her to come home as she missed them. Telling her they'd do something fun if she came home. Wanting to know what we were doing at all times. Bad mouthing my girlfriend through texts to my daughter which she showed me herself. Not wanting her seeing my family the list goes on and on.

I also didn't suggest physically forcing the child to do anything so your comment about handcuffs is silly. It struck me how flippantly other posters seemed to treat a parent-child relationship. I doubt there would be the same reaction if it were a mother-daughter relationship being discussed here. If you have two parents in a relationship, they would not easily permit their child to live elsewhere and not see them again because the child said they wanted that. Why is it so acceptable to people for a father to be simply dismissed from a child's life?

Have you had a 14 year old? Did they ever tell you they hated you in the midst of a fight? That they wanted to go away to live with a friend / auntie / grandparent / boyfriend etc? It happens all the time. It's just that in more traditional family set ups you know the dust will settle and all will go back to normal and the child is not going anywhere. Not so easy with parents who are not in a relationship where one parent is happy once the dynamics suit them.

Op, I hope this works out for you and your daughters.

eviltwin

Senature wrote: »

Have you had a 14 year old? Did they ever tell you they hated you in the midst of a fight? That they wanted to go away to live with a friend / auntie / grandparent / boyfriend etc? It happens all the time. It's just that in more traditional family set ups you know the dust will settle and all will go back to normal and the child is not going anywhere. Not so easy with parents who are not in a relationship where one parent is happy once the dynamics suit them.

Op, I hope this works out for you and your daughters.

If this was a teenage tantrum why hasnt she spoken to him in 2 years? This is more than just a pissed off teen, something has happened to make her cut contact. It might be manipulation from her mother but it might not be. At 14 she's well able to form her own opinion on who she wants to communicate with and that needs to be respected.

It's nothing to do with the gender of the OP, it's about respecting the wishes of the daughter. He needs to go softly, telling him that a 14 year old shouldn't make her own decisions is counterproductive.

The OP is still light on details so it's hard to advise but I'd be interested in hearing what his daughter has to say. He's clearly hurt her and he needs to acknowledge that.

Tork

i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the manipulation angle. We see threads here again and again from grown adults who've been manipulated by their partners and have developed a somewhat distorted view of the world. It could just as easily happen with teenagers. This is a bad break-up with a hostile ex who appears to be doing everything she can to stop the kids from seeing their father. 3 hours every second weekend is next to nothing and is a good way of loosening the bond between parent and child. The new girlfriend isn't helping because no kid likes it when their parents get with someone new. I still think the ex's behaviour is the biggest issue here though. If the daughters have been listening to constant badmouthing of the OP and his girlfriend at home, then get bombarded with texts from their mother during the few hours he gets to see them, why wouldn't they turn against him? 14 year olds aren't babies but they're still far from fully fledged adults who have the confidence to stand up to their parents.

Finchie1276

Senature wrote: »

For the record, I completely disagree with the posters saying this is her right and decision to make. She is 14. If 14 year olds were capable of making important decisions for themselves they could live in a home with no adults present, would be tried for crimes as adults, be able to vote for governments etc. This is obviously nit the case, and with good reason.

14 year olds are well capable of making decisions if they are facilitated in doing so. 14 year olds who are treated as though they can't make decisions end up disempowered. There is ample evidence to show that teenagers who face decisions on important issues like contraception, making decisions around sexual activity, drugs etc who are supported and informed make better decisions because they can talk about the issue at hand and also because they feel they can make mistakes and be supported if they do so.

In this case the person has decided she does not want to se her dad. That is her decision.

Senature

Finchie1276 wrote: »

14 year olds are well capable of making decisions if they are facilitated in doing so. 14 year olds who are treated as though they can't make decisions end up disempowered. There is ample evidence to show that teenagers who face decisions on important issues like contraception, making decisions around sexual activity, drugs etc who are supported and informed make better decisions because they can talk about the issue at hand and also because they feel they can make mistakes and be supported if they do so.

In this case the person has decided she does not want to se her dad. That is her decision.

This thread is getting completely derailed by posters arguing with me over points I didn't even make. How does that help the op?

I never said 14 year olds were incapable of making decisions, or that they shouldn't be allowed to make any.

LegacyUser

She's a kid as far as she's concerned you've replaced her mam with someone new. Maybe she thinks you've broken up the family for someone new. As an adult children of broken home I can tell you, you haven't just left a marriage in the eyes of the child you've also abandoned them. Yeah she's prob listening/being manipulated by the mam the constant texting is ridiculous.

Why did you mention seeing kids until lockdown? You are allowed to maintain the same access as separated parent?