Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

spurious wrote: »

I wonder is ISSU like Iona, making lots of noise, but actually numbering in perhaps double or single figures.

Clicking on a Facebook survey does not make me a member of anything.

Probably. There seems to be some kind of link between student councils in schools and it, but heaven knows how that works.

I suspect it is mostly made up of the future debaters in the Hist, Philosoph, etc., prob. the future Young FG/FF/SF etc. too.

spurious

I wonder is ISSU like Iona, making lots of noise, but actually numbering in perhaps double or single figures.

Clicking on a Facebook survey does not make me a member of anything.

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Can’t u see by giving that is going to stop many a legal case .

Which seems to be the main criterion, not fairness or accuracy, or any kind of comparability between years / results.

Millionaire only not

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ya years ago (like 80s early 90s) you could combine the best of your LC grades from different sittings, unlike now, it's one or the other, so there were cases of students going all out in one year on three subjects and then the following year on the other four.

Could see it being open to manipulation for those who choose to sit the exams in winter and then use the combined grades to apply for college in 2021.

If someone looking for a high points course was given predicted grades of 4H1, 1H2, 1H3, 1H4 for arguments sake, and it's in line with their ability as much as can be ascertained by the school, what's to stop them keeping the 4H1s and just studying two of those other subjects for the next 6 months to aim for another 2H1s?

And what is wrong with it move the clock back few years they allowed u combine leaving certs half the people on here would fall into that category .
Can’t u see by giving that is going to stop many a legal case .

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Was that called the matric or something?

No, the matric was an entrance exam for Uni set by the Unis. Originated when there was no LC / very few people did it. Didn't really match the LC syllabus anyway. Hung around for years, low take-up, eventually phased out.

pbthevet wrote: »

Exams before the mocks ie the school ones ........ were all over the place. Some teachers marked fair others couldn’t be arsed and personally i think they count for nothing.

Probably sent out to be marked, very variable standards in marking of Mocks by companies compared to the real thing.

pbthevet wrote: »

I know others who also did well in leaving and are doctors etc and some of them failed their mocks. No body gave a damn about the mocks. Sure u weren’t even finished being thought the subjects in most cases. U cud answer half the questions well and the rest were give it a go or u ran out of time etc.

Lots of teachers would say "treat the mocks to practise your timing / exam technique more than anything else".

And in a normal year they would be right.

So much wrong with the mocks tbh (including leaking of hints / questions) that I would assume / expect they will play a small part in "grade calculation" in most teachers' minds, unless they were set / corrected in-house.

amacca wrote: »

... complete cluster****.

pbthevet wrote: »

Complete shambles

Agreed.

pbthevet

Most of the work is done in the months between mocks and june exams.

I got 600 points in leaving but i got 420 in mocks. I started my study plan after the teaching element was over and then knuckled down.

Exams before the mocks ie the school ones ........ were all over the place. Some teachers marked fair others couldn’t be arsed and personally i think they count for nothing. I never got all a’s in summer or xmas exams.

I knuckled down because i wanted to be a vet. And i got there. But ud never have thought id of gotten the points if u looked back at my previous results.

I know others who also did well in leaving and are doctors etc and some of them failed their mocks. No body gave a damn about the mocks. Sure u weren’t even finished being thought the subjects in most cases. U cud answer half the questions well and the rest were give it a go or u ran out of time etc.

All the work is done in the months following. Ask anyone.

So who is getting the 600 points this year ..... or whatever the max is now in new system. How are they going to work this out.

Who gets to study medicine, Veterinary law etc??

Its not going to work. These courses are in such demand that simple 5 points meant repeating the year sometimes.

And what about the repeaters? How are they going to get a predicted grade? A second year wasted?

Complete shambles

amacca

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Upwards only reviews- like rent in Dublin

Also if a student decides to take on, say, two papers and has months to focus on those two papers only they'll probably do better than estimated grade.

Call the teacher a boll1x then for underestimating capability even though a different set of conditions at play.

System is open to manipulation.

Here's another thought process which will bring screams of that's not professional we are trusted to be professional but could be in someone's mind

You might game the system a bit when ranking too....say you have a dead cert H1 (no such thing I suppose but as near as you can figure) maybe rank that student 2nd or 3rd knowing he/she can get the grade in the exam and bump up the other close candidate to top ranking guaranteeing them the H1 with it being unlikely they woukd opt for exam etc

Probably unlikely to happen but could ultimately bump up the number comng out with the H1....and while perhaps not strategic in terms of college entry is be surprised if someone wasn't thinking it.....deoending on how much discretion/judgment is allowed

I personally think criteria for deciding grade should be very inflexible so it's a level playing field to some extent ......still leaves the issue of private grind schools etc

Personally I think this thing is a complete cluster****.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Was that called the matric or something?

No, you used to be able to combine your best grades from two sittings of the LC.

jimmytwotimes 2013

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ya years ago (like 80s early 90s) you could combine the best of your LC grades from different sittings, unlike now, it's one or the other, so there were cases of students going all out in one year on three subjects and then the following year on the other four.

Could see it being open to manipulation for those who choose to sit the exams in winter and then use the combined grades to apply for college in 2021.

Was that called the matric or something?

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Upwards only reviews- like rent in Dublin

Also if a student decides to take on, say, two papers and has months to focus on those two papers only they'll probably do better than estimated grade.

Call the teacher a boll1x then for underestimating capability even though a different set of conditions at play.

System is open to manipulation.

Ya years ago (like 80s early 90s) you could combine the best of your LC grades from different sittings, unlike now, it's one or the other, so there were cases of students going all out in one year on three subjects and then the following year on the other four.

Could see it being open to manipulation for those who choose to sit the exams in winter and then use the combined grades to apply for college in 2021.

If someone looking for a high points course was given predicted grades of 4H1, 1H2, 1H3, 1H4 for arguments sake, and it's in line with their ability as much as can be ascertained by the school, what's to stop them keeping the 4H1s and just studying two of those other subjects for the next 6 months to aim for another 2H1s?

Mardy Bum

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

System is open to manipulation.

This is what happens when you try to avoid being sued.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Upwards only reviews- like rent in Dublin

Also if a student decides to take on, say, two papers and has months to focus on only those two papers, they'll probably do better than estimated grade.

Call the teacher a boll1x then for underestimating capability even though a different set of conditions at play.

System is open to manipulation.

https://www.thejournal.ie/fairness-appeals-leaving-cert-5094993-May2020/

If they get a grade in the written exam that is lower than their calculated grade, the students can choose the calculated grade. They can also choose a mix of subjects being assessed in the calculated grade method, or the written Leaving Cert exam method.

I just saw this and went WTF????:eek::eek::eek:

So I thought maybe the Journal have got the wrong end of the stick, but no

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2f07eb-leaving-cert-2020-information/#information-for-leaving-cert-students

29. Can I mix my 2020 exam grades and Calculated Grades in different subjects to get points for access to higher education?
Yes. In these exceptional circumstances, all of the results issued on foot of the examinations this year, calculated grades; appeals and the later written examination will be considered the results of the 2020 Leaving Certificate.

Mother of Christ, so if you actually do the written exam and score lower than was predicted for you, you can keep the makey uppy grade???? And you can mix and match between the set?????

Why don't we just take teachers out of the equation, allow students to submit a set of predicted results for themselves and allow the DES to apply the curve and be done with it.

Treppen wrote: »

Ya no way could you be spacing students out in multiple rooms...

In other unrelated news... Pubs to open end of June.

No more than 4 people per 10sq meters.

Anyone screaming for detailed plans?
I'm getting stressed about all this stress, I'm off to the pub. Forget points, tis pints this country was built on.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/irelands-chief-medical-officer-considering-plans-pubs-open-six-weeks-earlier-scheduled-184811

you got my hopes up
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/tony-holohan-wont-play-ball-on-hopes-of-pubs-opening-early-39192574.html

jayo76

man_no_plan wrote: »

Why does everyone seem to think that principals will be dictating grades?

All of this 'from on high' and 'powers that be' stuff.

I imagine that unless someone is predicting H1's for everyone, wildly inflating grades or exacting some form of retribution on students they will agree with the teachers assessment.

I'd worry about boys not being recognised fairly by teachers based on workrate. They always do better in the LC exams than any other test. Always some surprise in our school when the results come out.

The girls, generally, just work hard all the time. The lads sometimes hide it a bit and put th ed boot down in april and may.

Its the algorithim more than management, my only fear in relation to management there would be if they took the view I couldnt assign H1 due to lack of last 3 years

man_no_plan

Why does everyone seem to think that principals will be dictating grades?

All of this 'from on high' and 'powers that be' stuff.

I imagine that unless someone is predicting H1's for everyone, wildly inflating grades or exacting some form of retribution on students they will agree with the teachers assessment.

I'd worry about boys not being recognised fairly by teachers based on workrate. They always do better in the LC exams than any other test. Always some surprise in our school when the results come out.

The girls, generally, just work hard all the time. The lads sometimes hide it a bit and put th ed boot down in april and may.

jayo76

spurious wrote: »

Still daft.
Who thinks these things up?

I made this point yesterday. I would genuinely expect 2 students to get a H1 this year, however school has not had a H1 in History in the 3 years since grade change. Every year between 2010 and 2016 there were A1s, but current year will now suffer due to last 3 years??

Well if I have to go ahead with it I will be predicting a H1 for both students, will stick to that prediction regardless of what my management propose in line with averages of last 3 years, will stick to it and back my students if the algorithim decides they are H2.

This proposal yesterday has not changed how I see myself from advocate to judge of my students. I owe it to my students who I have taught for 6 years to back themm.

0_o

Treppen wrote: »

Well if anything, fair fex to them. The students might wake up and recognise what a Union is for.

Typo?

Treppen

spurious wrote: »

Squeaky wheels.

Well if anything, fair fex to them. The students might wake up and recognise what a Union is for.

Treppen

Ya no way could you be spacing students out in multiple rooms...

In other unrelated news... Pubs to open end of June.

No more than 4 people per 10sq meters.

Anyone screaming for detailed plans?
I'm getting stressed about all this stress, I'm off to the pub. Forget points, tis pints this country was built on.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/irelands-chief-medical-officer-considering-plans-pubs-open-six-weeks-earlier-scheduled-184811

Shn99

km79 wrote: »

Wait until the campaign for next years Leaving Cert cohort begins

It has already started on social media, 5th years looking for easier papers ect

Deleted User wrote: »

My lad has been working hard in preparation for the exams.

Now he is absolutely deflated.

Yep, been hearing that so much over the last few days.

And from others (let's call them the middle-of-the-road group) who are kinda relieved they aren't facing the exam, but are worrying now about predictive grades.

Problem is, while he was actually doing some work, the ISSU etc. who weren't were hogging the airways and not really representing either of those groups.

km79 wrote: »

And why they had so much influence in this process

They had loud voices, and were the darling of the media looking for something to fill their papers / airspace.

CrabRevolution

Deleted User wrote: »

It was still there, social media and the internet has allowed us to see that it is a real problem among society.

I did my leaving cert long after the internet and social media became ubiquitous, and at the time we had people saying the same thing. "Pressure is is too much" "Kids face new challenges we didn't" "Mental health is becoming more open" etc.

But I recall the response to this was various supports, websites, helplines etc. to help you cope with the pressure. It was still explicit that unless you had some disaster befall you, you still did the exam. A friend's brother with a chronic disease did some of his LC exams from a hospital bed.

The very existence of a set of revision books titled "Less Stress, more Success" is evidence that stress is a normal part of the LC and the best way to counter it is to work hard and prepare as best you can. It doesn't say "No stress", because that's impossible.

At some stage along the way it was decided that actually the best way to counter stress is to just make the whole process easier, easier syllibus, more easily cheatable CA, more exemptions etc. and tell people their achievements are worth the same. As well as telling young people that stress is bad and nothing is ever their fault.

This disaster is a culmination of this line of thinking, where students feeling pressure is reason enough to cancel the exams.

acequion wrote: »

But the likes of Leo will pander to populist bull****, such as over protection of the young, because there's votes in it for him down the line.

Again, loathe to defend them, but Leo and FG were the last ones who wanted this. It was Byrne of FF and PBP etc.that decided to spearhead the "Cancel the LC" idea, citing students feeling stress.

Millionaire only not

acequion wrote: »

A brilliant,common sense post and you gave me a laugh.:pac:

This wrapping kids up in cotton wool is utterly crazy. And they should have been allowed to learn the lesson during this unprecedented global crisis that shyt can really happen. That when it rains it really pours and that having anxiety levels through the roof at such times because there is no calming certainty, is perfectly fine and perfectly normal.

But the likes of Leo will pander to populist bull****, such as over protection of the young, because there's votes in it for him down the line.

That may be all fine but there is a major difference- is it on or off ,is it the 29th July , will I have to ware a mask , 201 emails a day plus numerous instagram advertising this tuition that tuition.
Full 3 months plus the 3 months there already out studying in isolation .
People can say what they like but other leaving certs had tuition and a definite time table to work to.
Through in late for college , late for 5th years at least this way there’s time . And if it’s only one child that was stopped from doing something silly it’s worth it .

spurious

km79 wrote: »

I know who they are now. I was not aware of who they were before. I am not aware of the inner workings of how they elect their reps etc. How affiliation works etc
And why they had so much influence in this process

Squeaky wheels.

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

+1, I was just thinking the same thing.

Now wait til you see the social media stink at results time. Probably even from the same folks.

I am feeling very sorry for teachers in the middle of this.

Wait until the campaign for next years Leaving Cert cohort begins

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The Irish Secondary Students Union

I know who they are now. I was not aware of who they were before. I am not aware of the inner workings of how they elect their reps etc. How affiliation works etc
And why they had so much influence in this process

[Deleted User]

km79 wrote: »

“Student voice “ across various Social media platforms and the internet told us for the past month that the Leaving cert must be cancelled to protect students mental health
Minister McHugh listened to that and cited it as a major factor in the cancellation

Now that the reality is hitting home we will see the other side

+1, I was just thinking the same thing.

Now wait til you see the social media stink at results time. Probably even from the same folks.

I am feeling very sorry for teachers in the middle of this.

km79 wrote: »

the ISSU(whomever they are ) were throwing around figures of 70% of students wanting cancellation etc

The Irish Secondary Students Union