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GUI Statement - Mod warning #1

fred funk }{

Are we getting a statement today does anyone know?

Please try to keep this thread civil. Posters will be thread banned immediately for ignoring this warning

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downthemiddle

Ollieboy wrote: »

Just a comment, no club can or will enforce the 5k s or 70’s. Any club that does, will have a legal issue.

You cannot sue a club you’re a member of. What other legal issue would you foresee?

Just Saying

Kiith wrote: »

It's not the golf clubs responsibility to enforce any sort of travel restrictions. Do Tesco and other stores check where you live before entering? If you move outside the 5km zone, you are responsible if anything happens.

It's going to be a nightmare to get a game i'd say, but any game will do me at this stage.

Shopping was always an essential activity and the 5km rule does not apply to it.

I would be more concerned about clubs getting grief both from members who are rigidly sticking to the rules and see names on the timesheet that should not be playing and also from non golfing people who see neighbours heading off to play who they know are rule breaking..

It takes very little in this country to get people to pick up the phone to report others.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd imagine normal government restrictions should apply ie over 70's still have to cocoon and nobody to travel over the 5km. Not having the over 70's should keep them safe and free up slots on the course for everyone else.

Just Saying

Roger_007 wrote: »

The guidelines are simply a formal restatement of the measures which were in place immediately before the lockdown. They carefully avoid any mention of what will be the most contentious issues, the travel limit and the age limit. The clubs themselves will have to police these restrictions, (or not, as the case may be). They will not be able to point to the GUI guidelines to justify whatever measures they put in place in relation to these issues.
I think the GUI have chickened out.

Absolutely.They make lots of vague references to the responsibilities placed on golf by allowing it to be one of the first sports to open.They want clubs to sign up to protocols some of which are ridiculous or childish.Yet they fail to specifically address the two key issues that could result in the game getting negative publicity.

Imagine the headlines if golfers are stopped travelling 50km to play or players clearly over 70 are pictured playing.I actually think that neither of the above scenarios carry much risk at all but the will be plenty outside the game only too willing to highlight golfers non compliance with public health guidelines.

Roger_007

Hoboo wrote: »

And any member should have a membership issue next year. Membership is a privilege not a right.

Next year golf clubs will be doing everything they can to hang on to their membership. They will not be in the business of banning members. That world ended about 10 years ago.

Hoboo

Ollieboy wrote: »

Just a comment, no club can or will enforce the 5k s or 70’s. Any club that does, will have a legal issue.

And any member should have a membership issue next year. Membership is a privilege not a right.

Kiith

It's not the golf clubs responsibility to enforce any sort of travel restrictions. Do Tesco and other stores check where you live before entering? If you move outside the 5km zone, you are responsible if anything happens.

It's going to be a nightmare to get a game i'd say, but any game will do me at this stage.

Euphoriasean

prawnsambo wrote: »

Looks that way to me too. Very vague on the legal aspects. The closest they come is this statement on page 2. And it's very much open to interpretation.

They don't specially call out restrictions on travel or over 70 but do cover themselves with the statement below:

"Rules for Golfers in Phase 1
This Protocol sets out the basis on which golf can be played in a safe manner, during Phase 1 of the Government’s Roadmap for Reopening Society and Business. Golfers are expected to observe the underlying public health guidance set out at: www.hse.ie/coronavirus/ and www.gov.ie. These rules are subject to change and golfers are asked to check www.golfnet.ie regularly for updates."

Ollieboy

Roger_007 wrote: »

The guidelines are simply a formal restatement of the measures which were in place immediately before the lockdown. They carefully avoid any mention of what will be the most contentious issues, the travel limit and the age limit. The clubs themselves will have to police these restrictions, (or not, as the case may be). They will not be able to point to the GUI guidelines to justify whatever measures they put in place in relation to these issues.
I think the GUI have chickened out.

The GUI do not set the law or can legally tell anyone what to do and thank God. They are a sports body.

They can tell you what the restrictions are but it’s up to you to decide if you want to obey them and then that’s a Garda issue.

And you are only breaking this rule by traveling to the club, not actually been at the club! This is really important point to understand and I don’t get this confusion.

Hoboo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

14 mins makes no sense at all - someone would have been thinking about the restriction at start - but people hardly meet other groups at all before the first tee when 5 to 8 mins gaps

I'd genuinely be on the 3rd tee in 14 mins.

Id imagine it's to avoid crowding/maintain distance in the carpark, toilets, pro shop. I know our place is like a hive from 7-12 every Saturday. You've to pass a crowd to get to the tee box.

GreeBo

Roger_007 wrote: »

The guidelines are simply a formal restatement of the measures which were in place immediately before the lockdown. They carefully avoid any mention of what will be the most contentious issues, the travel limit and the age limit. The clubs themselves will have to police these restrictions, (or not, as the case may be). They will not be able to point to the GUI guidelines to justify whatever measures they put in place in relation to these issues.
I think the GUI have chickened out.

Do they not just point to the government guidelines?

prawnsambo

Roger_007 wrote: »

The guidelines are simply a formal restatement of the measures which were in place immediately before the lockdown. They carefully avoid any mention of what will be the most contentious issues, the travel limit and the age limit. The clubs themselves will have to police these restrictions, (or not, as the case may be). They will not be able to point to the GUI guidelines to justify whatever measures they put in place in relation to these issues.
I think the GUI have chickened out.

Looks that way to me too. Very vague on the legal aspects. The closest they come is this statement on page 2. And it's very much open to interpretation.

Members will need to be aware of the limited basis on which they have the opportunity to play in the initial months.

Roger_007

The guidelines are simply a formal restatement of the measures which were in place immediately before the lockdown. They carefully avoid any mention of what will be the most contentious issues, the travel limit and the age limit. The clubs themselves will have to police these restrictions, (or not, as the case may be). They will not be able to point to the GUI guidelines to justify whatever measures they put in place in relation to these issues.
I think the GUI have chickened out.

Ollieboy

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

14 mins makes no sense at all - someone would have been thinking about the restriction at start - but people hardly meet other groups at all before the first tee when 5 to 8 mins gaps

I'd genuinely be on the 3rd tee in 14 mins.

The 14 mins was never the issue for the course, it’s about managing the numbers at the club and preventing overcrowded car parks.

I believe a early request was a parking space on each side of every vehicles. Some clubs have restricted space. Similar issue with toilets and pro shop. So they wanted to reduce the capacity at clubs by 50% and this was the solution. so that’s the reason for this restriction.

Personally, 12 mins I think is fine in 3 balls and it moves to this on the 29th June.

But the clubs were willing to agree to just get open and these issues can be readdress afterwards. Been shut is the worse outcome.

Clubs can change the rule if the want by the way, but risk getting the industry shut down if they do.

FixdePitchmark

Walter Alright wrote: »

I picked it up wrong, thought clubs opening hours were being restricted.

I also think the 14 mins is crazy.

My local Tesco leave about 10 seconds between customers entering the shop (until it reaches its allowed capacity) and there is no one stopping you from handling items in store unlike the golf course with the flag pole, rake,etc.

14 mins makes no sense at all - someone would have been thinking about the restriction at start - but people hardly meet other groups at all before the first tee when 5 to 8 mins gaps

I'd genuinely be on the 3rd tee in 14 mins.

blindside88

The golf club is 4.7km from my house. Looks like I’ll be able to play half way down the first hole and back up along the 9th

Walter Alright

the.red.baron wrote: »

There's no restriction on how many can play in a day only in how many can play at one time

No different

Does it need to be 14 mins, I don't think so

But it's no different

I picked it up wrong, thought clubs opening hours were being restricted.

I also think the 14 mins is crazy.

My local Tesco leave about 10 seconds between customers entering the shop (until it reaches its allowed capacity) and there is no one stopping you from handling items in store unlike the golf course with the flag pole, rake,etc.

the.red.baron

Walter Alright wrote: »

Where did you see this information? That will be a right pain if people can't get out in the evenings.

Makes no sense to me. There is no restriction on the number of people allowed through a supermarket door during the day, only on the amount in at the same time.

There's no restriction on how many can play in a day only in how many can play at one time

No different

Does it need to be 14 mins, I don't think so

But it's no different

artanevilla

What happens in the case of privately owned courses, ie, Deer Park. The course and club based there are separate so would the course be bound by these guidelines?

Also hotel golf courses would be similar situation, owned by the hotel rather than a club, so would hotel guests be allowed play.

Ollieboy

Golfgraffix wrote: »

What issues do you foresee ? Genuine question

In members club they are shareholders in the business so the rules of the club are clear and you can’t ban people. So if a club refused access to a member they will have a claim, how much for and would the member do it, is a different question.

Clubs are a business and upsetting your customer is just stupid.

Other type of clubs will have to give members refunds if they refuse access so they won’t do that either.

Membership is a contract between club and member and clubs won’t want to break that trust or agreement.

Anyway, it’s up to the Garda to enforce the law not clubs.

Golfgraffix

Ollieboy wrote: »

Just a comment, no club can or will enforce the 5k s or 70’s. Any club that does, will have a legal issue.

What issues do you foresee ? Genuine question

Ollieboy

Walter Alright wrote: »

Where did you see this information? That will be a right pain if people can't get out in the evenings.

Makes no sense to me. There is no restriction on the number of people allowed through a supermarket door during the day, only on the amount in at the same time.

Where it states the distance between groups, 3 balls is 14 mins apart. Course don’t need to close at the times I gave, that was just to illustrate the lack of tee times in any club at peak times.

Walter Alright

Ollieboy wrote: »

So from 8 to 4 pm midweek that only allows 103 people out to play.

Weekend is 7 to 4 so will allow 115. Some clubs will really struggle with access.

Where did you see this information? That will be a right pain if people can't get out in the evenings.

Makes no sense to me. There is no restriction on the number of people allowed through a supermarket door during the day, only on the amount in at the same time.

CalamariFritti

Its totally over the top. Monumentally even. Still looking for the right adjective tbh.

My issue is mostly with group sizes and intervals. Its distancing we need to be doing not emigrating.

Edit: One can only hope that the clubs will ignore this bit. Probably won't tho.

> Do not arrive at the first tee more than 5 minutes before your allotted tee time.

Well that won't be a problem

Thats my normal time of arrival. I can do less even if needed.

Ollieboy

frostie500 wrote: »

I suggested to my club to limit it to nine holes (or at least open the booking system for both nines where you select a tee time for both) cos otherwise you'll have a lot of members playing nine and thatll be it. Half the course available but noone able to play it. Its good that we'll have golf back tho

Yes we considered this but with 27 holes we feel two starting holes should be enough as some people will respect the distance rule and over 70 recommendations.

Malahide are also 27 and starting with 3 nines. We’ve spoken to the Danes so we tried to learn from them what went wrong and what was done well.

Just a comment, no club can or will enforce the 5k s or 70’s. Any club that does, will have a legal issue.

willabur

morrga wrote: »

Interesting comment as it must also be discrimination to stop members playing based on geographical location. All members have equal rights.

But some rights are more equal than others. Have to wait for the 20km limit comes in before I can think about launching them

morrga

HighLine wrote: »

Probably to avoid litigation. There are no legally binding Government restrictions on over 70s.

Interesting comment as it must also be discrimination to stop members playing based on geographical location. All members have equal rights.

FixdePitchmark

frostie500 wrote: »

I suggested to my club to limit it to nine holes (or at least open the booking system for both nines where you select a tee time for both) cos otherwise you'll have a lot of members playing nine and thatll be it. Half the course available but noone able to play it. Its good that we'll have golf back tho

This is a great idea -

9 holes only.

Fair play something being issued - but the 14 mins is OTT.

johntommy

frostie500 wrote: »

I suggested to my club to limit it to nine holes (or at least open the booking system for both nines where you select a tee time for both) cos otherwise you'll have a lot of members playing nine and thatll be it. Half the course available but noone able to play it. Its good that we'll have golf back tho

Great idea

frostie500

Ollieboy wrote: »

So from 8 to 4 pm midweek that only allows 103 people out to play.

Weekend is 7 to 4 so will allow 115. Some clubs will really struggle with access.

I suggested to my club to limit it to nine holes (or at least open the booking system for both nines where you select a tee time for both) cos otherwise you'll have a lot of members playing nine and thatll be it. Half the course available but noone able to play it. Its good that we'll have golf back tho