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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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KCross

unkel wrote: »

+1

I spoke to the ESB spokeswoman (who had a company car Ioniq electric BTW) at Newland's cross at the press launch of the upgraded charger there (was formerly CHAdeMO and replaced with a triple head) that I came across accidentally

That was about a year ago (from memory). She told me informally that tenders were out for the multi charger hubs and that process would take until September (of last year), after which successful bidders would be contracted to build the multi charger hubs. Yet here we are the guts of a year later and there is nothing...

ok, so tenders out until ~ Sep 2019... Then go for planning and then start works.

Planning takes months in this country unfortunately. And then we hit Covid so it looks like we'll have to wait a while longer but at least she had a near term timeline that she was willing to share so thats hopeful once this current crisis passes.

Black_Knight

Can't understand this. Country on lockdown, park and ride is closed up, yet ESBs app provider suggests this charger is getting busier (my own data i've pulled from the ESB website over time).

upload pic

Similar situation on any charger I look at. Not a huge increase, but certainly not reflective of current usage patterns. Wonder how the estimate charger busyness.

MJohnston

Black_Knight wrote: »

Can't understand this. Country on lockdown, park and ride is closed up, yet ESBs app provider suggests this charger is getting busier (my own data i've pulled from the ESB website over time).

Similar situation on any charger I look at. Not a huge increase, but certainly not reflective of current usage patterns. Wonder how the estimate charger busyness.

What's the Y axis representing? Also, are park and rides actually closed up?

Black_Knight

MJohnston wrote: »

What's the Y axis representing? Also, are park and rides actually closed up?

Well, the blackash one on kinsale road is closed as far as I know.

The Y axis is whatever unit of measurement the ESB app uses. I've no idea what it is. Seems to max out around 10000 for the most in use charge points (blanch, lucan)

Stealthirl

Could be people who would charge at work or other locations now using the closest to home as they dont have a home point.

AhHaor

The Y axis seems to be cumulative use since Feb (god only knows what these people are thinking), so that would suggest that the data is accurate, ie it's stopped growing as lockdown was implemented.

Black_Knight

AhHaor wrote: »

The Y axis seems to be cumulative use since Feb (god only knows what these people are thinking), so that would suggest that the data is accurate, ie it's stopped growing as lockdown was implemented.

Interesting thinking. Could be right. The bars in the graph we get in the app are just relative to each other, so their "usage" unit doesn't really matter. So the numbers will just rise and rise, without any real indication of how busy a charge point is. ie. A charge point which has been online for longer than another would have a higher "usage" value, but the new charger could be equally as busy.

I'll keep collecting the data for another while. Might figure something useful from it.

zg3409

Tender documents
https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/165979/0/0?returnUrl=ctm%2FSupplier%2Fpublictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&fbclid=IwAR0ky0TkRWaJSCzBx36Fpj2pLP_KfUYf3JVMSQXfI6l5rhALKcR9JHSfwQk

ELM327

Does it specify anywhere what they are actually looking for?
Perhaps I am missing that

KCross

zg3409 wrote: »

Tender documents
https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/165979/0/0?returnUrl=ctm%2FSupplier%2Fpublictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&fbclid=IwAR0ky0TkRWaJSCzBx36Fpj2pLP_KfUYf3JVMSQXfI6l5rhALKcR9JHSfwQk

That just looks like the management software. Not directly related to the expansion of the charging hubs.

Looks like they want to push the software management side to the cloud. I believe Ionity already have theirs in AWS.

ELM327

I'd say there are a lot of requirements on the software side to allow for a future "plugsurfing" idea that basically allows you to charge on all networks with one RFID

I have the original plugsurfing RFID since I had my Ioniq.. used it once when I didnt have my ecars card in my wallet and it worked. (disclaimer - this was back in the day when bank cards started chargers!)

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

(disclaimer - this was back in the day when bank cards started chargers!)

You mean the days when certain members of Facebook groups indicated a charger would spontaneously combust when not using an eCars card!

unkel

liamog wrote: »

You mean the days when certain members of Facebook groups indicated a charger would spontaneously combust when not using an eCars card!

But at least they were happy they got good value for their €12k small home PV setups :pac: That is when they weren't bickering over whether you can leave a car unattended or not at a destination charger

zg3409

I think on the zoom meeting last weekend someone from Irish EV owners association mentioned fees for 22kW chargers had been delayed until 2021. (They said they had meeting with esb) I am not sure if this is covit related or charging hub delays related, but I would prefer reasonable fees now, particularly as most bad 22kW chargers were replaced even if the new ones are still buggy.

No one should be relying on them for daily use (due to shortage of units) and fees might free up ones at train stations and in particular in Dublin city centre.

I would prefer if each post was 4 x 7kW or more, as then 4 cars could fill up at same time

ELM327

zg3409 wrote: »

I think on the zoom meeting last weekend someone from Irish EV owners association mentioned fees for 22kW chargers had been delayed until 2021. (They said they had meeting with esb) I am not sure if this is covit related or charging hub delays related, but I would prefer reasonable fees now, particularly as most bad 22kW chargers were replaced even if the new ones are still buggy.

No one should be relying on them for daily use (due to shortage of units) and fees might free up ones at train stations and in particular in Dublin city centre.

I would prefer if each post was 4 x 7kW or more, as then 4 cars could fill up at sane time

7kW would be useless for larger cars, which can take more.

Otherwise I agree.
There are only two use cases for me using destination chargers. One is to avoid having to fast charge on the way home (eg visiting family in the good old days), and the other is for free parking while charging. The second is spurious but the first is genuine.

3 hours (time for a good cup of tea and a chat) will give me 33kWh at a 22kW post (my car takes 11kW) which is more than enough to get me 125-150km and most likely home without having to stop. 3 * 7kW is 21kWh which is probably 80km

slave1

Have to say, unlike the rapids I'm not massively in favour of the charging for slow chargers, I think we need a lot more of them and keep the free charging incentive up to allow greater EV penetration. Let's see the country heavily penetrated with 22kW posts because a lot of them at the moment are "hidden"
Software exists so there should be no free charging for hybrids.

zg3409

Not sure if this was posted before, minutes of meeting between esb and Irish EV owners association

https://www.irishevowners.ie/ievoa-esb-ecars-meeting/

Also today Facebook messages and email from ESB saying free 1 year premium membership is extended by 2 months meaning anyone who signed up to pay no monthly subscription for first 12 months will now get 14 months. However for 99% of people would be better off on pay as you go option instead of monthly fee for reduced charging fees. I intend switching plan when the 14 months are up.

KCross

I guess this bit is what people have been asking/waiting for....

· Multi charger site hubs

o Galway Plaza, M6 and Kilcullen, M9 are the first multi charger sites but the current set up is temporary. – One of the existing fast chargers will be replaced with a charger which can charge one car at 150kW or split the charge between two cars. Meaning three cars can charge simultaneously at those locations. We expect delivery of the 150kW chargers in the summer

o These type of sites (50kW + 150kW) will be quicker and require less infrastructure to build than the 4-8 vehicle hubs and so it is expected that more of these will be delivered in 2020

It looks like a watering down of the initial 4-8 super hub announcement.

Having said that, 3 cars sharing 200kW is alot better than what we have now and most cars wont even take 100kW for any sustained period for the foreseeable future. We just need them to role out alot of these sites.... 3 or 4 sites wont cut it. These should be plastered all over the country.

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

I guess this bit is what people have been asking/waiting for....
· Multi charger site hubs

......One of the existing fast chargers will be replaced with a charger which can charge one car at 150kW or split the charge between two cars.......We expect delivery of the 150kW chargers in the summer

KCross wrote: »

It looks like a watering down of the initial 4-8 super hub announcement.

Watering down?

KCross wrote: »

3 or 4 sites wont cut it. These should be plastered all over the country.

And they will - just pick a year, any year...........as long as it starts with 203x :pac:.

So we have what, seven or eight 150kW to 350kW multi charger sites between Tesla Superchargers & Ionity.
ESB are proposing a few shared 50kW to 150kW chargers, sometime next Summer?

Absolute farce :rolleyes:.

ELM327

pathetic!

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

ESB are proposing a few shared 50kW to 150kW chargers, sometime next Summer?

Who knows.... the minutes said this summer....

"We expect delivery of the 150kW chargers in the summer"

But I agree they didnt say which summer!

zg3409

I see a comment on plugshare about the new 50kW charger in kells co Cavan. It added a photo. I know the upgrade from 2 x 22kW AC to 50kW DC was started, then put on hold due to you know what, but it might be operational now. It shows as available on esb app too. I am not sure it was finished before covit but seems to be operational now. It could be a game changer on the Dublin Cavan route, particularly as another is half installed in Cavan town.

zg3409

zg3409 wrote: »

I see a comment on plugshare about the new 50kW charger in kells co Cavan. It added a photo. I know the upgrade from 2 x 22kW AC to 50kW DC was started, then put on hold due to you know what, but it might be operational now. It shows as available on esb app too. I am not sure it was finished before covit but seems to be operational now. It could be a game changer on the Dublin Cavan route, particularly as another is half installed in Cavan town.

Based on another added photo on plugshare and the esb app, it looks as if the other 50kW DC unit in Cavan town was made operational in recent days. So that's 2 new fast chargers on the N3, unless you drive an old Zoe and then their limit is 6kW AC and first 50kW charger in County Cavan

liamog

It's listed 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and 6kW on the eCars site, not sure why they can't allow upto 22kW on the AC if the DC isn't in use.

Spec sheet for the charger in case anyone is curious https://circontrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Datasheet-Raption-50-3.0.pdf

unkel

liamog wrote: »

It's listed 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and 6kW on the eCars site

I heard they are planning 22kW CCS / 2kW 3 pin plug chargers for 2022

McGiver

liamog wrote: »

It's listed 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO and 6kW on the eCars site, not sure why they can't allow upto 22kW on the AC if the DC isn't in use.

Spec sheet for the charger in case anyone is curious https://circontrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Datasheet-Raption-50-3.0.pdf

The specs say 50kW DC and 22kW AC. Assuming the model is CCS T2S32.

liamog

I'd assume it's that one too. I'm sure it's possible for them to be configured with lower limits if the site supply can't hold up.

ELM327

The specs can say what they like, it's irrelevant if theres a local power limit

zg3409

McGiver wrote: »

The specs say 50kW DC and 22kW AC. Assuming the model is CCS T2S32.

Esb app says 50kW DC 6kW AC

I saw a comment on Facebook saying they are limited to 44kW DC and 6kW AC and that the 6kW AC might reduce the 44kW down to 38kW Max if AC connector in use. I think the 6kW limit on AC is to give priority to DC, I know if I was on DC and someone rocked up and started taking 22kW on AC away from my DC I would not be happy.

I heard these sites are being re/used as they had trouble getting new sites at petrol stations on main roads, and that the old 44kW total supply may not have been upgraded. My car is capable of 70kW, not ideal fast charging at 44 or 44-6 rate.

Its just a pity everything is moving so slow. EVs are great, but let down by charging infrastructure.

digiman

It’s great and all to get a 50kW charger in Cavan and Kells but you have a significant detour and don’t have the petrol station facilities while waiting on the car to charge up. They really need to be aiming so much higher than this. Should be 150kW chargers in Cavan and Donegal/Letterkenny to make a route to the NW easier for EV drivers.