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LED Floodlight with PIR & Switchable

thos

Hi all,
I'm looking for some LED Floodlights (50w and 100w) but struggling to find any that will do PIR AND switching? I've had some that are PIR only, and some with PIR Override which make them switchable only.
I'm hoping to replace some current halogen floodlights which manage both - on/off by switch or PIR at the same time.

Any ideas or recommendations?

Thanks,
Tom

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Loozer

thos wrote: »

Hi all,
? I've had some that are PIR only, and some with PIR Override which make them switchable only.

Thanks,
Tom

What do you mean there?

Not quite sure what you're looking for,
do you want.to be able to operate the lights manually and also automatically with pir?

2011

thos wrote: »

Hi all,
I'm looking for some LED Floodlights (50w and 100w) but struggling to find any that will do PIR AND switching?

They all can if wired accordingly.

What do you want the switch to do?
Option 1: The switch turns on the light regardless of the PIR. This is a “master on switch”.

Option 2: The switch turns off the light even if the PIR has activated. This is a “master off switch”.

Option 3: You have a 3 position “HOA” switch.
Position 1: “Hand“ is a master on
Position 2: “Off” is a master off
Position 3: “Auuto” reverts to PIR control.

Any electrician can require to offer all 3 of the above options.

Loozer

Either the light fitting has the gimmickry built-in to stay on or you bypass the pir with an extra core (4-core)

wait4me

thos wrote: »

Hi all,
looking for some LED Floodlights (50w and 100w) but struggling to find any that will do PIR AND switching?...

I have the same question. I want a LED floodlight with PIR unit that accepts 4 wires - a neutral, earth and one live switched and one live permanent for the PIR. All I can find are live/neutral/earth inputs with PIR override by on/off switching. Thanks.

2011

wait4me wrote: »

I have the same question. I want a LED floodlight with PIR unit that accepts 4 wires - a neutral, earth and one live switched and one live permanent for the PIR. All I can find are live/neutral/earth inputs with PIR override by on/off switching. Thanks.

Only 3 wires will enter the light. The “4 wire part” will happen external to the light.

The Mulk

2011 wrote: »

Only 3 wires will enter the light. The “4 wire part” will happen external to the light.

Are these similar in operation to a 500W Haolgen with PIR. How does the control gear in the fitting differentiate between, switched on and master on in this scenario. Would the fitting not go into test mode with a live feed. It's still the same terminal in the fitting(Sorry for the questions I haven't fitted one of these.)
The ones i have looked at on screwfix need you to switch the live feed 4 times in 3 seconds to by pass the sensor, seems a bit messy, compared to the 4 wire solution.

thos

2011 wrote: »

They all can if wired accordingly.

What do you want the switch to do?
Option 1: The switch turns on the light regardless of the PIR. This is a “master on switch”.

Option 2: The switch turns off the light even if the PIR has activated. This is a “master off switch”.

Option 3: You have a 3 position “HOA” switch.
Position 1: “Hand“ is a master on
Position 2: “Off” is a master off
Position 3: “Auuto” reverts to PIR control.

Any electrician can require to offer all 3 of the above options.

I want to switch it on, and for it to stay on
After I switch it off, I then want the PIR to be active

Does that make sense?

The ones I got from Amazon, were 3 wire with integrated PIR. So the PIR was overriding with it's own timeout, there wasn't a way to switch on & stay on, and then switch off and allow PIR to control.

thos

The Mulk wrote: »

Are these similar in operation to a 500W Haolgen with PIR. How does the control gear in the fitting differentiate between, switched on and master on in this scenario. Would the fitting not go into test mode with a live feed. It's still the same terminal in the fitting(Sorry for the questions I haven't fitted one of these.)
The ones i have looked at on screwfix need you to switch the live feed 4 times in 3 seconds to by pass the sensor, seems a bit messy, compared to the 4 wire solution.

These were the ones I looked at which were advertised as 'PIR Override'

Loozer

Sensor lites are not sold as 4-wire that I ever seen

You have to bypass it yourself

The most straightforward way is when you're using separate pirs and lights

The Mulk

Loozer wrote: »

Sensor lites are not sold as 4-wire that I ever seen

You have to bypass it yourself

The most straightforward way is when you're using separate pirs and lights

I've always wired Sensor Lights (Halogen with PIR) in 4-core, through a switch.
N+E as normal, Perm. Live to feed of PIR, SW Live to switch wire of PIR (feeding directly to lamp).

If you do it the HOA as described above the Perm Live and SW Live connect to the same terminal in the fitting. I'm not sure how this works as desired, without doing the 4 switch in 3 second method

wait4me

thos wrote: »

I want to switch it on, and for it to stay on
After I switch it off, I then want the PIR to be active

I know what you mean!!!

I have a halogen floodlight like this; and I want to replace it with LED. I have two positive (one permanent, one switched, a neutral and earth coming to the halogen at the moment. The four-wires go into the back of the lamp. Surely there must be a LED lamp like this.

2011

thos wrote: »

I want to switch it on, and for it to stay on
After I switch it off, I then want the PIR to be active

So you want option 1 which is a master on switch.
Simply wire a switch wire from your switch to the switched output of the PIR.

I should have said that all of this is more simple of the PIR and the floodlight are separate devices. But from your opening post it sounds like you were going down this road anyway

wait4me

2011 wrote: »

So you want option 1 which is a master on switch.
Simply wire a switch wire from your switch to the switched output of the PIR.

I should have said that all of this is more simple of the PIR and the floodlight are separate devices. But from your opening post it sounds like you were going down this road anyway

So I suppose the question is there a LED floodlight with PIR available that can accept an additional switch wire?

The Mulk

wait4me wrote: »

So I suppose the question is there a LED floodlight with PIR available that can accept an additional switch wire?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEu_8-uU_bk

there's a Steinel fitting, €100 , it seems will do the job!!

Although for that price, you would want to be sure.

https://www.electricalwholesaler.ie/products/lampslighting/exteriorlightingluminaires/floodlightsdischargelighting/steinelsensorswitched12wledoutdoorfloodlightblackx

Wearb

I used to have a PIR (separate from light) that stayed on if switched on/off/on within 5 seconds. If left longer than 5 seconds between switching, it reverted to normal pir operation. Don't know if these can be gotten anymore.

Bruthal

The Mulk wrote: »

I've always wired Sensor Lights (Halogen with PIR) in 4-core, through a switch.
N+E as normal, Perm. Live to feed of PIR, SW Live to switch wire of PIR (feeding directly to lamp).

If you do it the HOA as described above the Perm Live and SW Live connect to the same terminal in the fitting. I'm not sure how this works as desired, without doing the 4 switch in 3 second method

A proper HOA would have a 3 way switch. Hand would be straight to lamp, Auto to PIR, and off connects to neither.

Or a 2 way fed by a 1 way.

The Mulk

Bruthal wrote: »

A proper HOA would have a 3 way switch. Hand would be straight to lamp, Auto to PIR, and off connects to neither.

Or a 2 way fed by a 1 way.

I know, but the LED fittings the OP was describing had a sealed connection unit with only 3 terminals.
L to PIR, N+E
You needed to switch it on/off 4 times in 3 seconds to bypass the PIR.
There was no connection option to bypass the PIR straight to the lamp

Loozer

The Mulk wrote: »

I know, but the LED fittings the OP was describing had a sealed connection unit with only 3 terminals.
L to PIR, N+E
You needed to switch it on/off 4 times in 3 seconds to bypass the PIR.
There was no connection option to bypass the PIR straight to the lamp

It was fairly straightforward with the old halogen pirs

Most of the new LEDs come prewired and a small cable gland, not sure if the pirs are even wired back to the cable entry box in all of them , maybe they are

autumnalcore

Wearb wrote: »

I used to have a PIR (separate from light) that stayed on if switched on/off/on within 5 seconds. If left longer than 5 seconds between switching, it reverted to normal pir operation. Don't know if these can be gotten anymore.

Yes called manual override, a lot of the generic rebadged chinese stuff has it and of the branded stuff I know Robus Remy and some Luceco have it.

With the quality of LED drivers in the wild flicking them on and off repeatedly probably reduces the lifespan of a lot of them as it did with halogen filaments especially where they utilise an NTC for current limiting. Flicking stuff on and off with a hot NTC is a common cause of smoke

Theres probably a good reason that Steinel don't offer manual override except on ac couple of their standalone PIRs.

You can always hedge your bets and install a seperate PIR and light.

thos

Ok this is what I need, wiring diagram in the PDF also
http://redarrowtrading.com/media/custom/upload/P/Tagged/976-Installation%20Instructions-FLSMD50BPIR%20INS.pdf

This LED Floodlight with P.I.R is equipped with a 4th wire
(Brown). This wire can be used in one of two ways:
1) Connected to a switch (as per diagrams on reverse)
which when switched will bypass the PIR and the LED
Floodlight will remain on until the switch is returned to its
sensing status.
2) Connected to subsequent non-PIR Light fittings in order to
switch these as well (Black wire is the supply wire, Neutral
& Earth wires to also be taken to secondary fittings)
NOTE: If the 4th (brown) wire is not required it must be
terminated safely, as when the PIR is activated will become
live. Total load including master must not exceed 800w.*

https://www.klightingsupplies.co.uk/red-arrow-30w-pir-led-floodlight-3100k-flac30bpir-31
£29

Loozer

thos wrote: »

Ok this is what I need, wiring diagram in the PDF also
http://redarrowtrading.com/media/custom/upload/P/Tagged/976-Installation%20Instructions-FLSMD50BPIR%20INS.pdf

https://www.klightingsupplies.co.uk/red-arrow-30w-pir-led-floodlight-3100k-flac30bpir-31
£29

Handy job alright , haven't seen them before

thos

Looks like EEW doing them here locally - https://www.eew.ie/products/20w-smd-ac-floodlight-pir-4-wire-6000k-flac20bpir.html?filter_set[]=16,32,135
Will see if they can get the higher output ones and will give them a try

autumnalcore

thos wrote: »

Looks like EEW doing them here locally - https://www.eew.ie/products/20w-smd-ac-floodlight-pir-4-wire-6000k-flac20bpir.html?filter_set[]=16,32,135
Will see if they can get the higher output ones and will give them a try

That one is 6000k. I find they're a bit 'beam me up scottie' for owners and neighbours and also prolongs dark adaptation of your eyes, good for burglars I guess but in my old age tis very noticable. 4000k seems to be a happy medium.

alan4cult

Maybe I'm missing something but can you not just put a switch in parallel to the PIR? The light will switch with either the switched live from switch or the switched live from the PIR.

If you actually want to override the PIR, while it's still on its timer, you can have another switch before/after the PIR.

Bruthal

alan4cult wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but can you not just put a switch in parallel to the PIR? The light will switch with either the switched live from switch or the switched live from the PIR.

If you actually want to override the PIR, while it's still on its timer, you can have another switch before/after the PIR.

A switch supplying the light direct is in parallel with the pir.

The option of switching on the light bypassing the pir and switching it off so it cant come on is described in post 17.

The Mulk

alan4cult wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but can you not just put a switch in parallel to the PIR? The light will switch with either the switched live from switch or the switched live from the PIR.

If you actually want to override the PIR, while it's still on its timer, you can have another switch before/after the PIR.

The OP's issue wasn't with the wiring of the circuit, he wasn't able to find a combined PIR/LED fitting with the option of a terminal on the switched side of the PIR.(allowing the connection of a master- on switch wire)

The ones on Screwfix didn't allow this connection.
The unit was sealed with only 3 connections.

He has since found one in EEW, by his post above