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Ticketmaster not refunding service fees

okidoki987

Ticketmaster now have changed their t&c's on refunds.
For postponed concerts, if you can't attend the rearranged date, Ticketmaster have now changed their t&c's where you will get the ticket price refunded but not their ticket service fees. :mad:

How do they think they can get away with this as you bought the tickets when the refund was a full refund?
Now they have changed it but it's after people have bought the tickets so they are changing the goalposts after the event date is changed.
I would imagine if it goes to court, Ticketmaster wouldn't have a leg to stand on over this.

https://www.thejournal.ie/ticketmaster-changed-terms-conditions-5087068-Apr2020/

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Trigger Happy

The journal lifted that article from the cancelled gigs thread in this forum I reckon.

[Deleted User]

OP you've had an account on boards since 2004?

Be glad you didn't purchase a ticket from any airline for this period.

They are all trying to persuade the state governments to enact legislation so that the airlines can keep the money paid for these tickets

Zardoz

okidoki987 wrote: »

How do they think they can get away with this as you bought the tickets when the refund was a full refund?

I'd imagine that the change in policy applies to tickets purchased from now on ,i.e after the policy change.
Any tickets bought before the terms and conditions were amended will still be given a full refund including the service charges .

hynesie08

Why should they refund it though? Ticketmasters job is a ticket seller, they charge you a fee for that, they've done their end of the deal....

machiavellianme

hynesie08 wrote: »

Why should they refund it though? Ticketmasters job is a ticket seller, they charge you a fee for that, they've done their end of the deal....

True, but their end of the deal was with their Terms and conditions, which we have no choice but to go along with. Now they've just sneakily changed those terms and conditions.

Let's say that you order Tesco online. They show you some pictures of stock and you order.
You are charged in full and pay a delivery fee.
When it comes to deliver, they don't bring your goods. Are you OK with that?
Or they tell you that they can only deliver on a date and time when you are out at a medical appointment and no chance of moving either, so you have to forgo the delivery. Are you OK with that?
What if they don't or never had the goods but deliver a few clubcard vouchers or random alternative stock you've no interest in? Are you OK with that too?

okidoki987

hynesie08 wrote: »

Why should they refund it though? Ticketmasters job is a ticket seller, they charge you a fee for that, they've done their end of the deal....

You buy tickets for a concert on date x and pay for it through your Ticketmaster account.
Date x gig is changed to date y which doesn't suit you, reason is irrelevant.
As date x is no longer the date you bought the tickets for, you should be
refunded all the money, concert fee and service fee as you are not getting the concert date that you bought the original tickets for.
Ticketmaster can now resell that ticket and get their service fees from the
new sale,.
Why should T/M get 2 service fees for selling the same ticket twice?

hynesie08

okidoki987 wrote: »

You buy tickets for a concert on date x and pay for it through your Ticketmaster account.
Date x gig is changed to date y which doesn't suit you, reason is irrelevant.
As date x is no longer the date you bought the tickets for, you should be
refunded all the money, concert fee and service fee as you are not getting the concert date that you bought the original tickets for.
Ticketmaster can now resell that ticket and get their service fees from the
new sale,.
Why should T/M get 2 service fees for selling the same ticket twice?

Service fee, fee for service.. Service has been provided. If you buy a washing machine for 500 euro, and pay someone 50 to install it, then your mother gives you a washing machine worth 2000, or you move to an apartment with communal washing facilities, do you expect the 50 back.

fafy

hynesie08 wrote: »

Service fee, fee for service.. Service has been provided. If you buy a washing machine for 500 euro, and pay someone 50 to install it, then your mother gives you a washing machine worth 2000, or you move to an apartment with communal washing facilities, do you expect the 50 back.

I don't have much sympathy for TM normally, but I do see there are many costs involved, take this timeline.

I searched for a ticket on their system - there are costs to run that system
I found a ticket and purchased it, costs involved processing that transaction
I received a ticket in the post - there are costs to print and post that ticket to me

GIG POSTPONED or CANCELLED
I received an email announcing date change/cancellation - costs involved
I requested a refund online, someone has to man these support services, costs involved
I received the refund to my credit card - there are costs to send that payment to me.

Del Griffith

hynesie08 wrote: »

Service fee, fee for service.. Service has been provided. If you buy a washing machine for 500 euro, and pay someone 50 to install it, then your mother gives you a washing machine worth 2000, or you move to an apartment with communal washing facilities, do you expect the 50 back.

I see what your saying but really the washing machine would be installed in a package deal with t&c saying it's all refundable, then when you need a refund the washing machine company changes the terms of your original contract into separate services and now one of which one isn't refundable.

It's definitely arguable.

Del Griffith

fafy wrote: »

I don't have much sympathy for TM normally, but I do see there are many costs involved, take this timeline.

I searched for a ticket on their system - there are costs to run that system
I found a ticket and purchased it, costs involved processing that transaction
I received a ticket in the post - there are costs to print and post that ticket to me

GIG POSTPONED or CANCELLED
I received an email announcing date change/cancellation - costs involved
I requested a refund online, someone has to man these support services, costs involved
I received the refund to my credit card - there are costs to send that payment to me.

These are the costs of doing business and will be accounted for in any profit/loss.
They're going to have a bad year, but so what.. they're going to have a huge year next year.

There is really no need for sympathy.

hynesie08

Del Griffith wrote: »

These are the costs of doing business and will be accounted for in any profit/loss.
They're going to have a bad year, but so what.. they're going to have a huge year next year.

There is really no need for sympathy.

How are they going to have a huge year? All next years gigs will just be reschedules, the tickets are already sold, if they refunded the service fee they'd have no money this year or next.....

Del Griffith

hynesie08 wrote: »

How are they going to have a huge year? All next years gigs will just be reschedules, the tickets are already sold, if they refunded the service fee they'd have no money this year or next.....

I don't know what you mean by just reschedules, if everyone just accepts a reschedule then there's no problem this year anyway.

If they refund this year they'll sell the same tickets again next year and recoup, plus all the events from 2021 tours aswell.

hynesie08

Del Griffith wrote: »

I don't know what you mean by just reschedules, if everyone just accepts a reschedule then there's no problem this year anyway.

If they refund this year they'll sell the same tickets again next year and recoup, plus all the events from 2021 tours aswell.

So either

A/ Refund everyone and hope they rebuy the tickets at a later date-no profit this year.

B/ Hope everyone holds onto their tickets, and you'll sell nothing next year because venues diaries are already filling up and there's no room for new tours, so no profits next year.

Either way, ticketmaster are not having a "huge year" next year, and the knock on effect will be felt for 2-3 years.

Rows Grower

hynesie08 wrote: »

Service fee, fee for service.. Service has been provided. If you buy a washing machine for 500 euro, and pay someone 50 to install it, then your mother gives you a washing machine worth 2000, or you move to an apartment with communal washing facilities, do you expect the 50 back.

Whoah, whoah, who pays who 50 euro to install a washing machine?

Rows Grower

Why are we charged a service fee anyway?

If a promoter is running a concert then the promoter should include the "service fee" in the price of the ticket.

It's not rocket science, the performer demands a fee, the venue can hold so many, work out the other costs, work out how much profit you want to make and price the tickets accordingly.

If someone pays money for a concert that is not going ahead give them back the money they paid, all of it.

Del Griffith

hynesie08 wrote: »

So either

A/ Refund everyone and hope they rebuy the tickets at a later date-no profit this year.

Eh, yea, like their own t&cs state. No 'either' about it. No profit this year? Tough ****, business is risky.

hynesie08 wrote: »

B/ Hope everyone holds onto their tickets, and you'll sell nothing next year because venues diaries are already filling up and there's no room for new tours, so no profits next year.

Venues booked 7 nights, are you having a laugh?

hynesie08 wrote: »

Either way, ticketmaster are not having a "huge year" next year, and the knock on effect will be felt for 2-3 years.

They had a huge year last year and many many previous years, they'll have another huge year next year.

The idea of supporting an organisation that's ripped and gouged the public for years with their monopoly in the act of further doing so by changing the terms of a contract, AFTER its been executed, to further do the same, is ****ing laughable.

PTH2009

A few tours happening autumn/winter might have dates for 2021 prebooked in case they cant play in 2020 etc

Geneisis in Nov is my next concert but the tour includes UK venues so its wait and see i suppose. Cant see any artist priortising venues if they cant hit the big markets (Ireland is a tiny market)

hynesie08

Del Griffith wrote: »

Eh, yea, like their own t&cs state. No 'either' about it. No profit this year? Tough ****, business is risky.

Agreed, business is risky

Venues booked 7 nights, are you having a laugh?

7 nights, no. But all the money slots for outdoor concerts have been reallocated for next year, there's gonna be less and less weekend slots, people were already complaining about too many gigs in June 2020, think they're going to take a week off work in 2021 when Springsteen does a tue/wed in croke Park as well? I'll be shocked if any large gigs go ahead that weren't rescheduled.

They had a huge year last year and many many previous years, they'll have another huge year next year.

The idea of supporting an organisation that's ripped and gouged the public for years with their monopoly in the act of further doing so by changing the terms of a contract, AFTER its been executed, to further do the same, is ****ing laughable.

I'm not supporting them, but the 2 times I've gotten refunds from them, booking fees weren't included, and I never expected it to be. Ticketmaster aren't the concert promoter, they're the ticket agent, I pay a service fee for a ticket and a resolution if anything goes wrong. They provide both......

People realise that the fee goes to the processing of refunds as well right? See how long they take if they are losing money refunding you.

fafy

PTH2009 wrote: »

A few tours happening autumn/winter might have dates for 2021 prebooked in case they cant play in 2020 etc

Geneisis in Nov is my next concert but the tour includes UK venues so its wait and see i suppose. Cant see any artist priortising venues if they cant hit the big markets (Ireland is a tiny market)

Same for me, Genesis in November is next viable one for me, however, many gigs being rescheduled to Oct to Dec, including i assume, the Bellx1 tour and aome others

Zardoz

hynesie08 wrote: »

Ticketmaster aren't the concert promoter, they're the ticket agent, I pay a service fee for a ticket and a resolution if anything goes wrong. They provide both......

Ticketmaster is Livenation and they own MCD the dominant promoter in Ireland .
They own venues ,they promote the acts in these venues and they sell the tickets .
They have been increasing prices for years in Ireland and charging Irish people more for tickets than people in other European countries .

The head of LiveNation Michael Rapino said a few years ago that the music Industry was making "Cocaine money" profit.
They have been trying to screw as much money out of fans for years using their monopolistic position and deceptive sales strategies like manipulating demand and holding back tickets to push Platinum ticket sales .

Even now when events have been postponed ,Ticketmaster have been emailing people to tell them that their tickets are valid for the new date and to hold onto them .
No mention of the fact that people are entitled to a refund if the new date isn't acceptable to them .

Now they have sneakily amended their terms and conditions to withhold refunding service fees.
I have absolutely no pity for a company like Ticketmaster who have abused their position for years .

ConcertKing

It's a disgrace that they think it's okay to change terms and conditions and try and keep the service charge on any event that people bought tickets for before this change!

I will fight tooth and nail to be refunded the service charge that were covered by the terms and conditions when I paid for the tickets if they are not included in the refunds I'm seeking.

Am actually waiting over a week to be refunded for a few shows I bought online and the robotic and generic replies are really annoying especially when their customer service specifically ignore what you ask them!

I actually bought tickets for an event that's been rescheduled with cash at an Ticketmaster outlet as well and have been told by Ticketmaster I will be refunded as soon as outlets reopen.

Got through to the Ticketmaster outlet in question and they hadn't a clue what I was on about regarding refunds for rescheduled events.

I genuinely can't see them reopening for months and can't see them agreeing to refund then.

If anyone has bought tickets for a rescheduled event with cash at a Ticketmaster outlet and can't go have you been told any different to what I was told regarding refunds please?

El Gato De Negocios

Ticketmaster are **** and always will be but I've no issue with them retaining the fee in the event of a postponement/cancellation that is out of their control.

okidoki987

Ticketmaster was and always will be, a "cash cow".
They are making a fortune every year, service fee has gone up over the years to €6.75 now, throw in another €1 fee for "venue refurbishment" for certain concerts and it's getting very expensive before the cost of the actual gig!

Take a gig in 3 Arena, 10,000 punters at mostly €6.75 a head, that's over €65k for one night! :eek: and they sell tickets for everything, concerts, shows, festivals, sports events and so on.
Everything is automated, most people buy e-tickets so nothing to send out.
There's no reason why they shouldn't refund their fees as per their t&c's at the time when the tickets were bought.

If I don't get the fees back on a rescheduled concert I can't attend and requested a refund for, I won't be leaving it and will look for them back.

As said, they might not get their fees from the original concert if people look for refunds but they will get them from the people buying tickets to the re arranged event.

Trigger Happy

Has anyone received a refund since TM introduced these new terms and conditions?
Are they actually trying to enforce them retrospectively?

SweetCaliber

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Has anyone received a refund since TM introduced these new terms and conditions?
Are they actually trying to enforce them retrospectively?

Yes I got a refund today and I've been refunded the service fees and original ticket price for a rescheduled event.

rabbitinlights

If a gig is postponed, the buyer should have the option of a refund ASAP.

e.g. - Caribou is postponed and awaiting a new date - I've a few hundred quid tied up in tickets.

okidoki987

I sent them a mail about a postponed gig that I bought the tickets for but now deffo won't be able to make the new date.
Asked for refund for the 2 tickets and get back a mail a week later saying
"we are really busy but have a look in our Q&A's to see if your query can be answered, if not send us another mail".
No mention of refund on their email either which was a bit sneaky.

dinneenp

I specifically requested a refund, got a (generic I think) reply. Same happened with my wife & she had to create a 2nd request. There's another thread somewhere with a specific link for requesting refunds -

Our Fan Support teams are incredibly busy at the moment, so we’ve put together the below information to answer the vast majority of questions we’re getting. If it does not answer your query, please reply to reopen your ticket. If you want to know if your event is taking place, you can find a list of cancelled or rescheduled events at http://bit.ly/33ciJ1z . We’ll update you as soon as we have any information but with decisions being made quickly at this time, we advise also keeping an eye on our social channels as well as those for the artist, event or venue for the latest updates.

If you are looking for information about a show that has been rescheduled, we will confirm new dates for those shows as soon as we can. If we have already confirmed a new date, your tickets are valid for that new date so keep hold of them.

We hope this answers your query and thank you very much for your patience.

rubadub

hynesie08 wrote: »

Service fee, fee for service.. Service has been provided. If you buy a washing machine for 500 euro, and pay someone 50 to install it, then your mother gives you a washing machine worth 2000, or you move to an apartment with communal washing facilities, do you expect the 50 back.

If, like Ticketmaster, it was in the original T&Cs then yes of course I bloody well would! would you not?!

T&Cs are a big selling point, I used to buy from Argos paying a bit more than elsewhere as I used to be safe in the knowledge there was an easy return policy.

If TM stick with this policy I will be holding off buying tickets for gigs until the last minute, its not some reasonable price like 50cent or so that Whelans or tickets.ie charge, they are able to make a decent profit and would have much higher overheads due to economies of scale.

okidoki987 wrote: »

to €6.75 now, throw in another €1 fee for "venue refurbishment"

It is €7.15 now. If somebody with a large family had bought 8 tickets for the spouse & kids you are looking at €57.20 in fees for a single button press, which is ridiculous seeing as its pretty much all automated and they force you into printing your own tickets for many gigs.

dinneenp

From the Irish Times, April 27th:

In long-standing terms and condition on its website, Ticketmaster says tickets for events which have to be rescheduled will “usually be valid for the new date”. However, if people notify the company within a specified deadline that they cannot attend the rescheduled event they “will be able to cancel your order and obtain a refund of the sale price of your tickets or packages plus the relevant service charges”.