bren2001 wrote: » Whats wrong with that? They are working on contingency measures if circumstances change. That is exactly what they should be doing. I don't see how to effects anyone at present or makes anyones job harder. Teachers should prepare for a July 29th LC start unless otherwise informed.
amacca wrote: » I don't think the big issue is the teachers preparing etc ...id imagine most are willing I think the issue is motivating what in most cases are still teenagers to aim at that given that the door is being left open to speculation....i appreciate a hard target is just not possible for the adults in the room at the moment but leaving the door open for predictive grades like that means more speculation and more procrastination and lack of engagement and tbh maybe the students be right ...the gamble of doing nothing just got a chink of light coming through the door.
km79 wrote: » Because he said earlier this week they were a no go as using mock grades would be unfair on students and getting teachers to predict grades would be unfair on them . You are correct you don’t seem to see how any of these statements makes any of our jobs harder You are not dealing with it day to day I can 100% guarantee this has kicked it all off again . We had only just for on top of it with our LC students and parents I’m not commenting any further other than to say i would not continually tell 3rd level educators he reality of their day to day as I am not working in that sector during this
jayo76 wrote: » Predicted grades would be all sorts of a disaster, if that is the contingency plan then God help us. Can you really imagine teachers in the fee paying schools of this country for fear of parental backlash not inflating grades, Daddy ringing the principal to say Im paying €5000 a year and your Maths teacher gave my daughter a H4. Do people really think that wont happen? If we are ever forced in to that charade then how does the teacher in a school that gives an honest, genuine grade feel when they compromise their student in the points race against teachers/schools giving inflated grades. I can see no way in which predicted grades can work.
Inspector Coptoor wrote: » I’m not in favour or predicted grades. At all. But as someone working in a private school this notion of parental pressure to inflate grades in an imaginary hypothetical scenario drives me insane As I feel the professionalism and more unlearn my, character and integrity of a subsection of teachers are being called into question It never happens for house exams and it wouldn’t happen in this hypothetical situation as any complaint would have to go to the SEC. If Johnny has been getting a H4 for 2 years but that H4 has gone from 61 to 65 to 67 to 69, it wouldn’t be a travesty to award a H3, but if Johnny went from a H4 to a H1, that’s pulling the pi$$. Predicted grades can’t work for a lot of reason but the integrity of teachers working in private schools Is not one of them
Treppen wrote: » As someone who worked in a private (well voluntary-fee-charging actually). I can safely say that that definitely wasn't my experience Inspector, your'e very lucky. Pressure is brought to bare every single week, I'd list examples but they are so whacky it would be identifiable. It's gotten to the stage where I'm sure some teachers give inflated results just for a quiet life. Here's how over 200 schools in Ireland will be getting at around the problem of predicted grades from a teacher. Basically it's Past Results + Entrance tests like Drumcondras/CATS . .... Oh and btw every teacher is awarded an average grade for all their classes too!https://www.athena.ie/athena-tracker If you find out your school is using it then I suggest you increase all grades forthwith :pac: I presume many will be using it now for the JC.
jayo76 wrote: » Inspector Cooptor, I Take that on board fully and I am sorry for coming across as questioning your professionalism/integrity I really am. I fully accept that as many teachers in fee paying schools as in non fee paying are willing and strong enough to give the grade the student deserves.It is grind schools maybe I am more concerned with. I guess I have become cynical with my own experiences as a History teacher regards the Leaving Cert History project. Two people I know working in separate fee paying/grind schools were told they were to make sure as much they could that all students in their class got full marks even if it meant editing the student project for them. The average mark for the History leaving cert project nationwide is now 92% and that is totally unrealistic, its a joke actualy. How can students who are getting H7 in the exam be completing off their own bat a project for 92%. It has happened because teachers in grind schools and maybe naturally are maximising results for their students and this obviously filters down, I have heard so many History, Geography teachers in my school say oh I have tn make sure they get full marks in that section as the grinds schools are and Im not going to let my students at a disadvantage. Do I think thats right, no way. I am sorry again for tarring fee paying school teachers, I do have a genuine concern about grade inflation to keep up with grind schools maybe more so.
political analyst wrote: » Will the amount of content that has to be covered in each subject for the Leaving Cert be reduced to take account of the obviously huge amount of class time that students have missed due to this crisis?
bren2001 wrote: » Well if the LC is not going ahead, it's important to develop a contingency plan. I agree predictive grading is unfair and hugely problematic, at the same time, how else can we determine who gets what University place if the exam is cancelled? I'm yet to hear a better viable alternative. I have not once told anyone the reality of the day to day of teaching in second level. I'm meerly pointing out that the Taoiseach openly saying the Department are working on contingency plans in case the LC is cancelled is the correct thing to do. If he didn't, they would be accused of not being transparent, secretive, or incompetent. They lose no matter what they do. You were calling for a detailed plan, well here they are indicating that they are developing alternatives. It's utterly hypocritical. /QUOTE] On your last point., there is no hypocrisy. Indicating the development of alternatives is not the same as a detailed plan. Schools have been closed for almost two months now. That's long enough to be beyond "developing" plans for what was an entirely foreseeable problem
Inspector Coptoor wrote: » I have some experience of the Athena tracker and I’m very dubious of its usefulness. Far be it from tracking students - I see it being used as a way to track the “value added” a teacher brings. Schools are going to have different local arrangements for JC grades. Thankfully we are not using predicted grades as this would set a precedent. We are using a combination of past results, engagement since March 12th and a final exam in May, albeit an online one of little value as it will be very easy to cheat.
Inspector Coptoor wrote: » Fair point re: the RSR project. This is why I like my subjects being once off 3 hour exams with no CA that can be influenced by outside agents, although that is gonna change in Sept 2021 to an 80% exam, 20% project set up.
Rosita wrote: » There is something pure and incorruptible about a straightforward exam. I am a great believer in that as the ultimate judge of skill, knowledge, and character
Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: » I agree fully...and in times when the world isn’t upside down, it’s the way to go. Take the pre exam result and add 10% ..Offer that to the LC cohort of 2020 as an option.Do it now and give them a week to decide. I would predict that over 85% of students would accept the proposal. Let those who decline the offer sit their exams .The numbers would be small and easy to manage for every school. Don’t pooh pooh unless you’ve got an alternative of your own!!
jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: » Mocks are not a reliable indicator as the papers were known beforehand. House exams over senior cycle- Xmas, summer, midterms wud be a better
Inspector Coptoor wrote: » At the top end - there’s no fairness in what you are suggesting. Let’s say Inhave a Student X who got 98% in the Mock and student Y who got 89%. Using your “solution”, the extremely bright student Doesn’t benefit and the bright student does. For courses like medicine and veterinary etc, your solution will bring with it huge problems. Also - in terms of “fairness” a student in a mock gets 69%. You add 10% - they’re now on 79%, one away from a H2. Fair? For a mock exam they did in Jan or Feb? Nah, didn’t think so
Mardy Bum wrote: » These are set by teachers and in the vast majority of cases are not reliable.
Mardy Bum wrote: » Common sense would tell you success in academia requires an ability to concentrate for large amounts of time, intrinsic motivation, self regulation in general, and lots of prior knowledge. The LC is a great measure of this.
