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Is farming actually profitable?

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Little background.. moved home from abroad a few years back, teaching close enough to home. Have planning permission on home farm and father is coming close to retirement. Have signed up to do Green Cert. Farm about 60 acres and only sheep on it.

Anyways, been thinking about getting into the "family business". I'd have grown up doing jobs and know a bit about sheep. However, I havent a notion about the finances or running a farm. Its not something I'd do for the love of it or to break even.

I know its a "how long is a piece of string?" question, but could a farm that size be profitable?? All I ever hear is how theres no money in farming.

Thanks for reading and any feedback welcome.

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Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Here is one about farm profitability. Today I had to get two rollers for the garage door. They were 60 euro net.of vat.

Not here is the question about profit monitor for my beef do I allow them as cost at the end of the year. Now the garage is 80-90% domestic use. If I put them in the accounts they will deduct about a euro per bullock from the bottom line. I be crying in my soup if I do not make a profit. If I do not allow me them into my accounts and make a profit the tax man will take about 50% of the euro

My point exactly in an earlier post. You put it through the farm of course.

Young95

davidk1394 wrote: »

Yes, it was done here for a number of years and worked well. The twins and triplets were on swedes from the 5/6th of January to the beginning of March. Stocking rate depended on the crop but usually 60 ewes per acre. I never bothered with strip grazing. I gave them mineral licks, straw and a lie back onto grass.

Good job and come March where they put inside and fed meal or left to lamb outside on just grass ?

davidk1394

Young95 wrote: »

Good job and come March where they put inside and fed meal or left to lamb outside on just grass ?

Brought in once they were on the point of lambing and lambed in doors. If the weather was fine, i gave the field a run of a tine harrow and put cattle on it to eat up the last few bits.

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

My point exactly in an earlier post. You put it through the farm of course.

But what about the scared profit monitor

Water John

Bass, I use to work where we made similar door rollers. Invoiced out for €4 a piece. The supplier charged you €30. The margin in farming compared to this, is a joke.

Bass Reeves

Water John wrote: »

Bass, I use to work where we made similar door rollers. Invoiced out for €4 a piece. The supplier charged you €30. The margin in farming compared to this, is a joke.

It a top roller that runs on a track Hillaldam Coburn was the original make but now its a spurious cannot even come across them online. 30+vat, I suppose I should not claim the vat back either

Water John

Different type. Sorry to derail.

Bass Reeves

Water John wrote: »

Different type. Sorry to derail.

TBH they are expensive enough at what was charged for them

Water John

The mark up on most parts like that in Ireland is ludicrous. Anywhere between 40 and 100% and more.
Ah if they start paying us €80 tonne to sink carbon in the ground we'll all be in the money.

[Deleted User]

Carmen Angry Advertisement wrote: »

I know its a "how long is a piece of string?" question, but could a farm that size be profitable?? All I ever hear is how theres no money in farming.

Any farm can be profitable, how it's managed will decide that. Whether it'll make you a living or not is a different question. Personally I'd stay away from Teagasc and their advice, unless you are doing GC solely to qualify for young farmers or some other allowance.

Bass Reeves

Sometimes I wonder do lads read the original/OP's. When doing English in school the teacher would get you to underline the main points in a piece of prose.

Main points are he a teacher, the farm is sixty acres, it's in Mayo, it's a sheep farm and the OP has limited farming experience.

First thing why would you give up a teaching job to go farming fulltime on sixty acres, why would you consider dairying or tillage on sixty acres not to mind in Mayo. I know they are into punishment up there. It not known as the God bless us county(they will never win a football all Ireland) for nothing

But he is looking for advice regarding farming a farm on a part-time basis

Dinzee Conlee

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder do lads read the original/OP's. When doing English in school the teacher would get you to underline the main points in a piece of prose.

Main points are he a teacher, the farm is sixty acres, it's in Mayo, it's a sheep farm and the OP has limited farming experience.

First thing why would you give up a teaching job to go farming fulltime on sixty acres, why would you consider dairying or tillage on sixty acres not to mind in Mayo. I know they are into punishment up there. It not known as the God bless us county(they will never win a football all Ireland) for nothing

But he is looking for advice regarding farming a farm on a part-time basis

Plus, the OP indicated he has no intention of going farming for the love of it. It would be a financial decision.

IMO in these circumstances, farming it yourself is not profitable - if you work out the time put in vs the financial returns and then compare this against renting the farm out tax free, for almost zero input...

Dickie10

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder do lads read the original/OP's. When doing English in school the teacher would get you to underline the main points in a piece of prose.

Main points are he a teacher, the farm is sixty acres, it's in Mayo, it's a sheep farm and the OP has limited farming experience.

First thing why would you give up a teaching job to go farming fulltime on sixty acres, why would you consider dairying or tillage on sixty acres not to mind in Mayo. I know they are into punishment up there. It not known as the God bless us county(they will never win a football all Ireland) for nothing

But he is looking for advice regarding farming a farm on a part-time basis

very harsh , you must be a meath man too!

tabby aspreme

davidk1394 wrote: »

The initial investment for sheep is low. All you need is a good fence, decent handling facilities, a shed and a good dog. If the ground is free draining, sow a winter crop like kale or swedes. It's expensive day one but it pays for itself during the winter. Sheep usually require more handling than cattle and it's harder to put money together with sheep than cattle. I sold all the sheep recently and I am going down the dairy route for 2021

For someone to buy stock this August with €550-600 / acre to spend, would there be much difference in gross margin from buying, 4 breeding ewes to lamb in March, or a store bullock to overwinter on silage and finish off grass in summer 2021, with facilities already in place to winter cattle or sheep

JJayoo

Don't get married, have kids or build a big house and you will be sorted

tabby aspreme

JJayoo wrote: »

Don't get married, have kids or build a big house and you will be sorted

Not even to a teacher

Bass Reeves

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Plus, the OP indicated he has no intention of going farming for the love of it. It would be a financial decision.

IMO in these circumstances, farming it yourself is not profitable - if you work out the time put in vs the financial returns and then compare this against renting the farm out tax free, for almost zero input...

In area's like Mayo renting may not be an ideal option. There would not be a huge amount of dairy or tillage farmers. Most would be drystock, they have limited income from these systems. As such farmers are dependent on payments for making these farming systems profitable. Therefore rents of above 100/ acre would be the exception rather than the norm. As well OP intends to build a house on the farm so large area in forestry is not an option. However I would not rule out limited forestry on marginal land.

While some make a huge point about rental income being tax free, the tax liability on a farm can be shielded by being self employed. Normal expenditure such as car, electricity, phone etc can shield some income. Even the odd garage door roller. Long term if farm fairly profitable children working on the farm can be paid an income to put them through college. Tax free leasing income is not a huge advantage outside of dairy and tillage areas.

Bass Reeves

Dickie10 wrote: »

very harsh , you must be a meath man too!

No not a Meath man just a realistic Kerryman in exile

[Deleted User]

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In area's like Mayo renting may not be an ideal option. There would not be a huge amount of dairy or tillage farmers. Most would be drystock, they have limited income from these systems. As such farmers are dependent on payments for making these farming systems profitable. Therefore rents of above 100/ acre would be the exception rather than the norm. As well OP intends to build a house on the farm so large area in forestry is not an option. However I would not rule out limited forestry on marginal land.

While some make a huge point about rental income being tax free, the tax liability on a farm can be shielded by being self employed. Normal expenditure such as car, electricity, phone etc can shield some income. Even the odd garage door roller. Long term if farm fairly profitable children working on the farm can be paid an income to put them through college. Tax free leasing income is not a huge advantage outside of dairy and tillage areas.

I’d say rents under 100 an acre would be the exception. We had land leased out up until recently in the west at around 170 an acre for middle of the road land and we we always felt in hindsight we had let go a bit too cheap as it was a neighbour ( a sucker and sheep man no dairy around us).

Bass Reeves

Kenny Dirty Ape wrote: »

I’d say rents under 100 an acre would be the exception. We had land leased out up until recently in the west at around 170 an acre for middle of the road land and we we always felt in hindsight we had let go a bit too cheap as it was a neighbour ( a sucker and sheep man no dairy around us).

Unless he is drawing fairly substantial SFP or farmnis technically leased by a young farmers he is at nothing. Know a fairly large drystock farmer near me renting at slightly more than that near me. He is at the pin of his collar to make any margin on it

You have to remember when leasing, GLAS is capped as is ANC, KT is the same fir 50 or 500 acres. While it may be worth more for you to farm it yourself it fairly hard to make a profit if first the first 100-200euro hast to go to someone else.

Water John

At the moment I would be slow to lock up land into anything long term like trees. The signs are the EU will have a major shift on land/farming policy in 2022. This will be very focused on the environment.
There is an article in the IFJ 15/02/20 about Ryhs Edwards a Welsh farmer addressing the National Sheep Association NI He had calculated that he was sequestering four times more CO2 than he was emitting.
This will become a major income stream IWT.

Young95

Water John wrote: »

At the moment I would be slow to lock up land into anything long term like trees. The signs are the EU will have a major shift on land/farming policy in 2022. This will be very focused on the environment.
There is an article in the IFJ 15/02/20 about Ryhs Edwards a Welsh farmer addressing the National Sheep Association NI He had calculated that he was sequestering four times more CO2 than he was emitting.
This will become a major income stream IWT.

If that’s the case a lot of dairy men are going to be under serious pressure!

kk.man

Water John wrote: »

At the moment I would be slow to lock up land into anything long term like trees. The signs are the EU will have a major shift on land/farming policy in 2022. This will be very focused on the environment.
There is an article in the IFJ 15/02/20 about Ryhs Edwards a Welsh farmer addressing the National Sheep Association NI He had calculated that he was sequestering four times more CO2 than he was emitting.
This will become a major income stream IWT.

IMO that's going to be the new CAP where carbon will be promoted and paid for.

There will be trees and habitats etc which we all knocked 30 years ago. That's where the money will be.

Say my name

kk.man wrote: »

IMO that's going to be the new CAP where carbon will be promoted and paid for.

There will be trees and habitats etc which we all knocked 30 years ago. That's where the money will be.

It was told to me that it'll be a certain % of land will have to be in ditches and certain % of that will have to have trees on it to qualify for your bps.
After that or if that who knows.

green daries

There are any amount of dry stock farmers in mayo Willing to rent land. They usually put the dairy men out by the side

Dickie10

yea i often see lietrim farmers taking land up around me here, i often thaought it was mad.like its 2 hours away

Hard Knocks

Dickie10 wrote: »

yea i often see lietrim farmers taking land up around me here, i often thaought it was mad.like its 2 hours away

Westmeath?
They get 5 months extra grazing for cheaper rent compared to something beside them

Dickie10

south Meath

Dickie10

any reason why it would be cheaper than beside them? land quailty not be better?

Hard Knocks

Dickie10 wrote: »

any reason why it would be cheaper than beside them? land quailty not be better?

Less interest locally