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The one and only refund thread [READ MOD NOTE BEFORE POSTING]!

dory

We have had a lot of refund threads lately, and a lot of people reporting them.

So this time around I will straight away ban you for a while from this forum if you don't play nice.

Paddy19 has provided some useful information and that is now a sticky.

All your refund queries should be in this thread only. I'll lock the others.

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Bhoy1967

TUI have cancelled all holidays up to 11th June:

Due to the ongoing situation regarding COVID-19, the Department of Foreign Affairs have advised against all but essential travel. Unfortunately, this means that we’re no longer able to offer TUI holidays travelling on or before 11 June 2020, or Marella Cruises sailings travelling on or before 30 June 2020.

We’re sure you’re keen to find out what this means for your holiday. You’ll find all the information you need about your next steps below.

The Department of Foreign Affairs has advised against all but essential travel. So, we’re really sorry to say that unfortunately your holiday won’t be going ahead as planned. We’re sure you’re keen to find out what this means for you, and we’re working hard to contact all affected customers as quickly as we can to discuss your options.

paddy19

eltonyio wrote: »

Paddy, I have a claim in the SCC and am at the stage now to pay the €25 as of today. Based on your experience, is it worth proceeding this route? Or better to go via flightrights? Total flight value is around 1k. I don't mind paying it but obviously no need to if flightrights is as effective. Flights with Ryanair.

I'm just sample of one so hard to know if either have got buried in claims.

It seems to that either SCC or flightrights work fine.

You could do both and add to our sample!

Obviously I'm not suggesting that people in general should be loading both systems.

Technocentral

paddy19 wrote: »

I'm just sample of one so hard to know if either have got buried in claims.

It seems to that either SCC or flightrights work fine.

You could do both and add to our sample!

Obviously I'm not suggesting that people in general should be loading both systems.

Hi Paddy on Flightrights they say you need to attach proof of corrospondence what did you do as obviously Ryanair don't answer?

Wuff Wuff

Technocentral wrote: »

Hi Paddy on Flightrights they say you need to attach proof of corrospondence what did you do as obviously Ryanair don't answer?

i attached them the email from them with the click to accept voucher link and a transcript of a live chat, and thier acknowlegement of my complaint email

fire them off a quick complaint there and use that

paddy19

Interesting the difference in approach, tone and timing (by 4pm) of the UK regulator's letter.

Our lame Commission for Aviation Regulation won't even release the "strongly worded letters" they send to Ryanair.

The acceptance by the regulator of Ryanair's claims that "refunds cannot be automated" is unbelievable.

(note underlining added by me)

Ryanair Ltd
Michael O’Leary
Airside Business Park
Swords Co. Dublin Ireland
By email: olearym@ryanair.com; ethella@ryanair.com
19 September 2017

Dear Michael
EC261/2004 – Re-routing obligations
In relation to re-routing passengers affected by the cancellations to Ryanair flights planned for September and October, at your press conference yesterday you stated that Ryanair “will not be paying for flights on other airlines” and that this is “not part of the EU261 entitlements". These comments have been widely reported in the media today.

Whilst I appreciate that most Ryanair passengers will likely be re-routed on the same day on another Ryanair flight, many will not. This latter group of passengers may be better served by flying with a different airline (or indeed to or from a different nearby airport). The CAA’s view, which I set out in Annex 1 of my letter to you of 16 August, is that Regulation EC261 requires Ryanair to offer passengers on cancelled flights alternative travel options, including flying with a different airline.

Your statement yesterday runs contrary to our view and contradicts the assurances that we were given on this point by your legal team on a call at 10am yesterday morning. I am therefore concerned that it is Ryanair’s express intention to fail to meet its obligations under Regulation EC261 and that this will give rise to significant consumer harm.

Next steps
My team wrote to your legal team yesterday to request that Ryanair clarifies its position on re-routing on other airlines. Specifically, that Ryanair clarifies its position on re-routing on other airlines and
that, should Ryanair accept that Regulation EC261 requires it to re-route on other airlines, that it explains the methodology it uses to determine whether to offer passengers a re-route on another airline. This request still stands, and I look forward to receiving your response by 4pm today.

For the avoidance of doubt, we reserve the right to make public this letter and any response we receive from Ryanair on this issue.

Yours sincerely
Richard Moriarty
Director, Consumers and Markets Group"

kathleen37

Has anyone received an Aer Lingus refund voucher recently? I've only been waiting about 4 weeks but want to rebook.

Thank you

paddy19

Technocentral wrote: »

Hi Paddy on Flightrights they say you need to attach proof of corrospondence what did you do as obviously Ryanair don't answer?

Don't get hung up on getting every piece of correspondence.

It's up to Ryanair to provide a simple working process to claim a refund.
Per there Terms and Conditions you may use:

https://refundclaims.ryanair.com/

You can take screen shots with your phone.
You just have to make a reasonable effort.

If Ryanair's systems don't work that's not your problem.

deandean

I want to get a refund, not a voucher, from Ryanair.
Their website now says:
Refund Update
The processing time for cash refunds is taking far longer than normal as we are processing over 1,000 times the normal volume of cancellations. We also have 75% fewer staff available to process refunds due to social distancing restrictions.
Ryanair is offering vouchers and free moves as these are automated and give customers an immediate alternative. Unfortunately, cash refunds cannot be automated. Customers who choose a voucher, but don't redeem it within 12 months may still apply for and obtain a refund after this 12 month period.
Customers who choose not to accept a free move or voucher will receive their refund in due course, once this crisis has passed. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can.
We sincerely apologise for these unavoidable refund delays which are due to the unprecedented volume of Govt. imposed flight cancellations and we sincerely thank customers for their patience.

So I may not get my refund for weeks...months...once this crisis has passed!

Technocentral

Flight rights complaint submitted, thanks Paddy19, I will report on progress.

JTMan

Worrying development ...

https://twitter.com/CWeston_Indo/status/1255500070721642496

Act fast and persue multiple avenues before the law is changed.

Lex Luthor

JTMan wrote: »

Worrying development ...

https://twitter.com/CWeston_Indo/status/1255500070721642496

Act fast and persue multiple avenues before the law is changed.

Brussels still has to ratify this and they havent yet

Ozark2020

So much for the government looking after the little guy/gal ! Banks in 2008 and the airlines in 2020! Outrageous !

Roanmore

If the rules are changed would local legislation still have to be enacted?

SusanC10

Just off the phone from VHI Multi-trip who are now saying (despite what they said in March) that they will not cover anything to do with our trip to Italy in June. Even if the situation remains the same re DFA.

Flights booked with Aer Lingus. Don't really want a Voucher as have no plans to fly for the foreseeable.

What is the best way to proceed ?

SusanC10

Also, what happens if we are forced to accept a Voucher and Aer Lingus goes bust ?

Pkiernan

SusanC10 wrote: »

Just off the phone from VHI Multi-trip who are now saying (despite what they said in March) that they will not cover anything to do with our trip to Italy in June. Even if the situation remains the same re DFA.

Flights booked with Aer Lingus. Don't really want a Voucher as have no plans to fly for the foreseeable.

What is the best way to proceed ?

What reason are they stating for not covering you?

Was your policy in place before you purchased your trip?

SusanC10

Pkiernan wrote: »

What reason are they stating for not covering you?

Was your policy in place before you purchased your trip?

Have had continual cover for years. Same policy - Worldwide Family Multi-trip.

They are saying that Aer Lingus must refund if the flight is cancelled and that the Travel Insurance does not cover in those circumstances.

Totally confused as when I phoned twice in March, both times Customer Service said that if DFA advice advised against non-essential travel 2 weeks before travel that they would pay out.

paddy19

SusanC10 wrote: »

Just off the phone from VHI Multi-trip who are now saying (despite what they said in March) that they will not cover anything to do with our trip to Italy in June. Even if the situation remains the same re DFA.

Flights booked with Aer Lingus. Don't really want a Voucher as have no plans to fly for the foreseeable.

What is the best way to proceed ?

Not surprised at the insurance companies, they are like the airlines love taking money in, hate paying out.

Not sure Aer Lingus are offering vouchers for June flights.

Sit tight. Do not cancel. If you cancel you loose everything except Government tax and incur a €20 admin charge.

Doubtful if the flight will go in June but who knows.

Assuming it doesn't fly you can claim a full refund as soon as Aer Lingus confirms its not going.

SusanC10

paddy19 wrote: »

Not surprised at the insurance companies, they are like the airlines love taking money in, hate paying out.

Not sure Aer Lingus are offering vouchers for June flights.

Sit tight. Do not cancel. If you cancel you loose everything except Government tax and incur a €20 admin charge.

Doubtful if the flight will go in June but who knows.

Assuming it doesn't fly you can claim a full refund as soon as Aer Lingus confirms its not going.

Thanks Paddy.

Will not cancel. Unlikely Flight going to Verona.
Assuming Flight does not go - how far in advance does Aer Lingus cancel ?
And how long after travel date do I have to claim refund from Aer Lingus ?

smeal

deandean wrote: »

I want to get a refund, not a voucher, from Ryanair.
Their website now says:
Refund Update
The processing time for cash refunds is taking far longer than normal as we are processing over 1,000 times the normal volume of cancellations. We also have 75% fewer staff available to process refunds due to social distancing restrictions.
Ryanair is offering vouchers and free moves as these are automated and give customers an immediate alternative. Unfortunately, cash refunds cannot be automated. Customers who choose a voucher, but don't redeem it within 12 months may still apply for and obtain a refund after this 12 month period.
Customers who choose not to accept a free move or voucher will receive their refund in due course, once this crisis has passed. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can.
We sincerely apologise for these unavoidable refund delays which are due to the unprecedented volume of Govt. imposed flight cancellations and we sincerely thank customers for their patience.

So I may not get my refund for weeks...months...once this crisis has passed!

On foot of this I’ve decided to hold on to my voucher.

The way I see and anticipate it is that Ryanair have no intention of refunding any time soon. It will be a long time for the aviation and tourist industry to be able to say that the ‘crisis is over’. I imagine it could be nearly Christmas at the earliest that Ryanair would be generating enough business to start paying back these refunds and that’s assuming that countries are in a position/ willing to open their borders and tourism industries again.

I will just hope that the ‘crisis is over’ enough for us to start thinking about being to travel again within the next 12 months and at least then I have a nice voucher to use. I travel enough to justify holding on to a voucher. If it isn’t over (and please God it will be) within the next 12 months then I will request a refund and I’ll still likely be in the same refund queue as people applying today.

paddy19

Roanmore wrote: »

If the rules are changed would local legislation still have to be enacted?

Technically the commission and EU parliament would have to change EU261 but...

Countries have introduced local laws that allow consumer debt to be refunded in vouchers.

Then you have a conflict between EU Regulation and local law....

Bonanza time for the wigged friends.....

And you know what happens when the lawyers get involved:

confusion, delay and expense.

"The relationship between EU law and national constitutional law is a rather sensitive and sometimes complex issue, that national judges have to tackle when they deal with fundamental rights cases, having a sufficient nexus with EU law. In this context, national courts and, in particular, national supreme or constitutional courts act in a double capacity, namely both as national and european judges, since they have to interpret and apply, at the same time, EU law and national constitutional law."

Lex Luthor

Crisis is over is not going to wash imo

its going to be over when the WHO deem its not a pandemic, that way people return back to a bit more of a normal work environment

by the end of may I see most offices back to at least 50% capacity and they have no excuse by then to start the speedier process of refunds

paddy19

SusanC10 wrote: »

Also, what happens if we are forced to accept a Voucher and Aer Lingus goes bust ?

Aer Lingus are in good shape and very very unlikely to go bust.

A voucher puts you in with other creditors.
Not usually a great place to be.

If you want your cash you better dash!

Flightrights.ie and Small Claims Court have good for me.

paddy19

SusanC10 wrote: »

Thanks Paddy.

Will not cancel. Unlikely Flight going to Verona.
Assuming Flight does not go - how far in advance does Aer Lingus cancel ?
And how long after travel date do I have to claim refund from Aer Lingus ?

Assuming Flight does not go - how far in advance does Aer Lingus cancel ?

Aer Lingus have been a pain only officially cancelling 3 days before the flight.
Ryanair have been way better with two weeks notice.

And how long after travel date do I have to claim refund from Aer Lingus?

At the moment you have 6 years, one of the longest in the EU.
Very small chance that Heather Humphreys and Shane Ross might shaft us in the area too, but unlikely.

paddy19

smeal wrote: »

On foot of this I’ve decided to hold on to my voucher.
I imagine it could be nearly Christmas at the earliest that Ryanair would be
generating enough business to start paying back these refunds and that’s assuming that countries are in a position/ willing to open their borders and tourism industries again.

If the voucher works for you that's great.

At least the new voucher doesn't take your money if you didn't book within 12 months.

Ryanair are probably one of the most cash rich airlines in the world.

ianobrien

Does anybody have any advice for ferries cancellation and getting the refund?

There is an EU regulation (1177/2010) that says that a refund must be offered. I asked but naturally Brittany Ferries are saying "No - Here's the voucher, no refund!".

As they are a French company, the Irish Small Claims process doesn't apply. I've tried a credit card chargeback (holding out not much hope really on that - AIB) and I've a complaint lodged with National Transport Authority (responsible for ferry operators in Ireland) via their complaint process.

I see that there is a European Small Claims Court but I can't do that online, only lodge the papers in the District Court. That'll have to wait until the restrictions lift a bit.

Does anyone have any other ideas

paddy19

JTMan wrote: »

Worrying development ...
https://twitter.com/CWeston_Indo/status/1255500070721642496
Act fast and persue multiple avenues before the law is changed.

Act fast or loose the cash!

Great to see Heather support the poor airlines.

When Ryanair fly again they should pass around the collection bucket and we can all chip in for
poor Michael O'Leary's wee airline that has €4 Billion in cash reserves.

JohnCleary

ianobrien wrote: »

As they are a French company, the Irish Small Claims process doesn't apply. I've tried a credit card chargeback (holding out not much hope really on that - AIB) and I've a complaint lodged with National Transport Authority (responsible for ferry operators in Ireland) via their complaint process.

I got a chargeback from Vueling Airlines (Spanish), although it was with BOI.

Credit to BOI, took only 3 weeks and no questions asked.

smeal

JohnCleary wrote: »

I got a chargeback from Vueling Airlines (Spanish), although it was with BOI.

Credit to BOI, took only 3 weeks and no questions asked.

Out of interest, what was the process with BOI? Did you originally pay with Visa card?

Irishder

I am booked to go to Orlando June 1st. Just got a mail from Aer lingus stating they are waiving change fees for travel up to July 31st.

At what stage can you select the voucher rather then rebooking