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2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

notobtuse

With Nancy Pelosi’s Schiff Show Sham of an impeachment over (well, all but over, anyway) time to turn to the US presidential election.

So, who is left:

Donald Trump (R): You wanted change, you got change... Trump change!

Joe Biden (D): Distracted by shiny objects!
Bernie Sanders (I - running as a D, what's up with that?): On a scale of Mao to Stalin, how bad would a president Bernie be?
Elizabeth Warren (D): Little Chief Gonna Spend A Lot.
Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D): Portrait of a young bull$hit artist.
Andrew Yang : Vote for me and I’ll give you $12,000.
Mike Bloomberg (?): Who says you can’t buy an election?
Tulsi Gabbard (D): I guess it’s true you never piss off the Clintons.
Amy Klobuchar (D) and the rest of the also-rans: Who?

And then there’s Hillary Clinton (Witch), waiting in the wings for a contested convention so her superdelegates buddies can hand her the nomination: Liar, liar, pantsuit on fire!

Personally, when Pelosi, who had to impeach Trump immediately because he was such a threat to the nation, and then waited a month to walk the articles of impeachment in a stupid procession over to the Senate... it was like she was walking with Trump’s reelection papers.

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kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

Probably best to just show some of the better know examples of our media... The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, Slate, The Daily Beast, The Huffington Post, Mother Jones, Vox, BuzzFeed, Politico, Time and NPR.

Just out of interest Is there any news source that both sides of the American divide can agree is considered as centrist and neutral?

The Nal

kilns wrote: »

Just out of interest Is there any news source that both sides of the American divide can agree is considered as centrist and neutral?

Below is debatable but in the same ballpark.

MW-GE557_MediaB_20180228115701_NS.jpg?uuid=659e15a6-1ca8-11e8-83b2-9c8e992d421e

notobtuse

kilns wrote: »

Just out of interest Is there any news source that both sides of the American divide can agree is considered as centrist and neutral?

I’d say if both sides had to pick and agree on 5 the list would probably go like this...

CSPAN, Reuters, AP, The Wall Street Journal and The Hill.

notobtuse

jibber5000 wrote: »

CNN published nearly 700 articles about Kavanaughs allaeged assault within 3 weeks of the allegations being made against him.

In the case of Biden's allegation, they published 1.

CNN published 1? That's one more than I would have expected. And let me guess... the gist of their article probably points to Reade lying.

rossie1977

What left wing ideologies do CNN, NYT and the like propose?

I haven't even heard them calling for nationalisation of certain businesses, no calls for worker rights, no calls for improvement in the US crumbling roads and ancient public transportation systems. They both tore into Obama over the ACA and both are firmly anti universal health care with people like Anderson Cooper continually asking "How do you expect to pay for that"

NYT for their part frequently have op-ed pieces like https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/opinion/center-democrats-identity-politics.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/opinion/democratic-socialism-alexandria-ocasio-cortez.html

kilns

The Nal wrote: »

Below is debatable but in the same ballpark.

That’s what I thought I couldn’t find the graphic. To be honest all of the media outlets in the green rectangle I would consider good honest and reputable reporting outlets. It is just a pity that all news outlets have been destroyed and are vilified if they do not write it report what someone wants them to say. I agree Trump gets too much bad over the top press from certain outlets like CNN and MSNBC from every move he makes and word he utters. But when he is rightly criticized for things he says and does by outlets in the green rectangle and calls it out as fake news, when it’s obviously not, that’s when it’s dangerous and unpatriotic

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

CNN published 1? That's one more than I would have expected. And let me guess... the gist of their article probably points to Reade lying.

For CNN on the left you have Fox News on the right. Their news divisions cancel each other out as they are as bad on both sides of the divide. So you can’t really complain about cNN when you have Fox. Where Fox goes OTT is when it turns into an entertainment channel in the evening

notobtuse

kilns wrote: »

For CNN on the left you have Fox News on the right. Their news divisions cancel each other out as they are as bad on both sides of the divide. So you can’t really complain about cNN when you have Fox. Where Fox goes OTT is when it turns into an entertainment channel in the evening

Let's say you're correct that CNN and FoxNews cancels each other out. Then let's look at who remains on the Left and Right in the realm of viewership/readers. I'd venture a guess and say the Left overshadows the right by a margin of 100 to 1.

Edit... And Bloomberg can no longer be considered Center after they refused to report anything negative on Mike Bloomberg and democrats in the primary season but stated they would continue to report negatively on Trump. Bloomberg made themselves into a joke.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Probably best to just show some of the better know examples of our media... The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, The New Yorker, The Atlantic, Slate, The Daily Beast, The Huffington Post, Mother Jones, Vox, BuzzFeed, Politico, Time and NPR.

So every media outlet that doesn’t overtly support the Republicans? Your bias is showing in a big way.

MSNBC has s definitely partisan, in favour of the Dems. The rest of the TV news outlets are not “left leaning”.

Peddling this BS constantly is tiresome.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Oh come on... you’re better than that. bin Laden was an evil human being but he wasn’t stupid.

I find hilarious that you’re trying to use his views to prove YOUR point.

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

Let's say you're correct that CNN and FoxNews cancels each other out. Then let's look at who remains on the Left and Right in the realm of viewership/readers. I'd venture a guess and say the Left overshadows the right by a margin of 100 to 1.

Edit... And Bloomberg can no longer be considered Center after they refused to report anything negative on Mike Bloomberg and democrats in the primary season but stated they would continue to report negatively on Trump. Bloomberg made themselves into a joke.

What major outlets are left or more left of CNN. Only MSNBC. You have NBC, CBS, ABC all more Centre and report more fairly than CNN and would have a big audience.

You quote 100 to 1 for viewership which is a bit extreme but like it or not they are way way more left and centee leaning people than right leaning and so that is why they have the viewership.

Brian?

kilns wrote: »

Just out of interest Is there any news source that both sides of the American divide can agree is considered as centrist and neutral?

It used to be ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN. Until Foxnews came along and was so right biased it made the rest look like Pravda. They really didn’t change, the frame of reference did.

jibber5000

kilns wrote: »

For CNN on the left you have Fox News on the right. Their news divisions cancel each other out as they are as bad on both sides of the divide. So you can’t really complain about cNN when you have Fox. Where Fox goes OTT is when it turns into an entertainment channel in the evening

New York Times investigation into Biden led to this tweet on 12 April which they subsequently deleted

"We found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Biden, beyond hugs, kissing and touching that women previously said made them feel uncomfortable"

Hugs, kissing and touching all apparently above board.

notobtuse

I'd say Allsides.com has the best media bias chart (of course Bloomberg now must be moved into the Left column)

AllSidesMediaBiasChart_Version1.1_11.18.19.jpg

AllSidesMediaBiasChart_Version1.1_11.18.19.jpg

Quin_Dub

kilns wrote: »

For CNN on the left you have Fox News on the right. Their news divisions cancel each other out as they are as bad on both sides of the divide. So you can’t really complain about cNN when you have Fox. Where Fox goes OTT is when it turns into an entertainment channel in the evening

Not really though..

If you look at the table posted earlier , check where CNN and Fox reside.

CNN listed as somwhere between "Skews Liberal" and "Neutral" and then listed as sitting on the border of the Yellow and Orange Boxes . Yellow being described as "Fair interpretation of the News" and Orange being "Unfair interpretation of the News"

So , they skew liberal and sometimes go a bit too far in their interpretations.

Fox News though sit on the border of "Hyper Partizan Conservative" and "Most Extreme Conservative"

On the colour scale they sit on the cusp between Orange and Red.

Orange being "Unfair interpretation of the News" and Red being "Nonsense , Damaging to Public Discourse"

They are the only Major news outlet to even get close to those extremes.

Huffington Post matches them on the Left/Right scale on the other side , but for an equivalent on the Unfair/Nonsense scale you are looking at something like New Republic or Occupy Democrats , neither of which I think I've ever seen come up in a search on a topic.

Given their large audience , having Fox news sitting close to "Nonsense , Damaging to public discourse" category should be a huge concern.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Let's say you're correct that CNN and FoxNews cancels each other out. Then let's look at who remains on the Left and Right in the realm of viewership/readers. I'd venture a guess and say the Left overshadows the right by a margin of 100 to 1.

Edit... And Bloomberg can no longer be considered Center after they refused to report anything negative on Mike Bloomberg and democrats in the primary season but stated they would continue to report negatively on Trump. Bloomberg made themselves into a joke.

The number 1 rated news network in the US? Foxnews.

notobtuse

kilns wrote: »

Just out of interest Is there any news source that both sides of the American divide can agree is considered as centrist and neutral?

If you must have one... CSPAN.

2u2me

notobtuse wrote: »

I'd say Allsides.com has the best media bias chart (of course Bloomberg now must be moved into the Left column)

I'd go with your graphic. Any 'neutral' observor who ranks MSNBC or the WaPo as close to neutral obviously don't know what bias even is.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

The number 1 rated news network in the US? Foxnews.

So?

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Let's say you're correct that CNN and FoxNews cancels each other out. Then let's look at who remains on the Left and Right in the realm of viewership/readers. I'd venture a guess and say the Left overshadows the right by a margin of 100 to 1.

Edit... And Bloomberg can no longer be considered Center after they refused to report anything negative on Mike Bloomberg and democrats in the primary season but stated they would continue to report negatively on Trump. Bloomberg made themselves into a joke.

If that was true , the question that raises is why?

Do they exist because there is an audience for it? and if so , why is there no opposite market for right leaning outlets?

Is it because a few huge players on the right consume the market?

This is a genuine question and not intended as a dig at anyone..

People refer to the Main Stream Media all the time as some kind of insult - Is it not "Main stream" for a reason?

That it's what appeals to the most people?

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

So?

Do not 100 to 1.

The Nal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If that was true , the question that raises is why?

Do they exist because there is an audience for it? and if so , why is there no opposite market for right leaning outlets?

Is it because a few huge players on the right consume the market?

This is a genuine question and not intended as a dig at anyone..

People refer to the Main Stream Media all the time as some kind of insult - Is it not "Main stream" for a reason?

That it's what appeals to the most people?

If you don't get your news from a poorly made 90 minute video by some rando on Youtube you're part of the brainwashed MSM loving sheeple.

News in less than 100 characters supported by a picture on Twitter is also acceptable.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If that was true , the question that raises is why?

Do they exist because there is an audience for it? and if so , why is there no opposite market for right leaning outlets?

Is it because a few huge players on the right consume the market?

This is a genuine question and not intended as a dig at anyone..

People refer to the Main Stream Media all the time as some kind of insult - Is it not "Main stream" for a reason?

That it's what appeals to the most people?

In the case of ABC, NBC and CBS I'd say their popularity is because of their far reaching entertainment, movies, and sports divisions. Plus with them and others on the Left they often claim to be unbiased and neutral, which is a lie, and a lot of people are gullible and buy into it.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Do not 100 to 1.

I don't understand. Did you do an analysis of the media news reporting viewership/readers after taking CNN and FoxNews out of the equation?

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Given their large audience , having Fox news sitting close to "Nonsense , Damaging to public discourse" category should be a huge concern.

I'd say check into the bias of that source reporting on those categories.

A 2018 survey reported by The Hill (considered Center/Neutral) showed BBC, FoxNews and PBS (in that order) were the most trusted TV news brands in the US.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

In the case of ABC, NBC and CBS I'd say their popularity is because of their far reaching entertainment, movies, and sports divisions. Plus with them and others on the Left they often claim to be unbiased and neutral, which is a lie, and a lot of people are gullible and buy into it.

OK - Doesn't explain the lack of any of those things in right leaning outlets?

Also - The accusation of the left pretending to be unbiased and neutral can equally be lain at the feet of the right , I mean the Fox News tagline is "Fair & Balanced" .

I just don't buy the "Media biased against Conservatives" argument.

Of course - There are biased media outlets without question, some wildly so , on both sides.

But I don't accept that the ratio of Left/Right Bias is necessarily out of kilter with the actual positions and opinions held by the people watching.

If they were , then people would watch something else.

notobtuse

IMO Democrats should be praising and giving thanks to Tara Reade. It gives them a valid reason to pick someone other than the Joe Biden, who is unqualified to become president by any and every measure.

kilns

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Not really though..

If you look at the table posted earlier , check where CNN and Fox reside.

CNN listed as somwhere between "Skews Liberal" and "Neutral" and then listed as sitting on the border of the Yellow and Orange Boxes . Yellow being described as "Fair interpretation of the News" and Orange being "Unfair interpretation of the News"

So , they skew liberal and sometimes go a bit too far in their interpretations.

Fox News though sit on the border of "Hyper Partizan Conservative" and "Most Extreme Conservative"

On the colour scale they sit on the cusp between Orange and Red.

Orange being "Unfair interpretation of the News" and Red being "Nonsense , Damaging to Public Discourse"

They are the only Major news outlet to even get close to those extremes.

Huffington Post matches them on the Left/Right scale on the other side , but for an equivalent on the Unfair/Nonsense scale you are looking at something like New Republic or Occupy Democrats , neither of which I think I've ever seen come up in a search on a topic.

Given their large audience , having Fox news sitting close to "Nonsense , Damaging to public discourse" category should be a huge concern.

As I said I would distinguish the Fox News and the Fox entertainment part.

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

IMO Democrats should be praising and giving thanks to Tara Reade. It gives them a valid reason to pick someone other than the Joe Biden, who is unqualified to become president by any and every measure.

Honestly though. If you believe Joe Biden is unfit to be president because of this allegation how can you in all honesty claim Trump is not equally unqualified?

hetuzozaho

notobtuse wrote: »

who is unqualified to become president by any and every measure.

I guess Trump has proven that won't stop someone becoming President of the US.