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Oliver Plunkett St. is no longer a pedestrianised street.

User142

https://twitter.com/EnglishMarket/status/1253586976328073217

Even with absolutely feck all traffic in the city centre and ample free parking within a minute of the English Market, the city council has decided to give over a main pedestrian and cyclist area in our city to private motor cars.

In most cities, government is turning over space to pedestrians to allow them to social distance we have done the opposite.

The mind boggles.

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ofcork

With a lot less cars around does it really matter?

j8wk2feszrnpao

ofcork wrote: »

With a lot less cars around does it really matter?

Does what matter? I don’t get the question.

ofcork

That its open to traffic a lot less cars/people around as very little open.

mikeym

I presume a lot of elderly people cant go into the City Centre over the virus and I never see many people on the 220 buses.

The English Market traders probably need all the business they can get.

robinbird

It does very much matter and is a very retrograde step. It is the complete opposite of what is being done around the world where local authorities are increasing the urban space available to pedestrians to facilitate social distancing.
In Cork they have seen it as an opportunity to increase the space available to vehicular traffic forcing pedestrians to huddle together on narrow footpaths. Ending the pedestrianisation of Oliver Plunkett Street is one of the worst decisions that has been made in a long time.

User142

Exactly there are far less cars. Space in the city is limited. Turning over more to them makes no sense. There's no traffic at all and plenty of parking about. Why dismantle a pedestrian zone?

Pedestrians need more space and cyclists need to keep out from the footpath to comply with the 2m.

It says a lot about the some people in the council that even when car traffic is extremely low they decide to turn over a pedestrian zone to cars..... Like why? Why can't we trial going the other way? There's a huge amount of people out walking and cycling right now.

j8wk2feszrnpao

ofcork wrote: »

That its open to traffic a lot less cars/people around as very little open.

Still don’t know what you are saying/asking.
Has something changed with the bollards?

robinbird

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Still don’t know what you are saying/asking.
Has something changed with the bollards?

All bollards permanently lowered to fully open street to vehicular traffic and to allow on street parking.

major interest

Nonsense decision, how does any perceived benefit of allowing traffic down the street outweigh the risks of forcing pedestrians closer together? Not to mind the fact that there is ample parking available in the city currently.

Itssoeasy

robinbird wrote: »

All bollards permanently lowered to fully open street to vehicular traffic and to allow on street parking.

How do we know they are permanently lowered ? Is it not logical that when all this ****e is over those bollards will be put back ?

robinbird

major interest wrote: »

Nonsense decision, how does any perceived benefit of allowing traffic down the street outweigh the risks of forcing pedestrians closer together? Not to mind the fact that there is ample parking available in the city currently.

It seems the traders told council management to open street so people could drive through street to Grand Parade or park on Oliver Plunkett Street itself and they did as they were told.

It has always been the position of commercial interests that cars bring business and the more cars they have in the city centre the more business for them.
Hence the free parking promotions also in place.
Social distancing considerations for pedestrians are not a consideration if they conflict with the demands of commercial interests.

opus

Noticed last week that Princes St was now a carpark & open for traffic during the day, didn't realise OP St was as well. The city council seem to be taking a contrarian route compared to most other cities when it comes to pedestrians & cyclists

Witness the fisco that is access to Tramore Valley park if you need any more proof.

whisky_galore

It was never pedestrianised in the true sense.

Graham

from the tweet:

temporarily open Oliver Plunkett St to vehicles

j8wk2feszrnpao

robinbird wrote: »

All bollards permanently lowered to fully open street to vehicular traffic and to allow on street parking.

Ah, ok, didn’t know that. But as clarified, it’s a temporary measure. But as I can see, it’s become another opportunity for a boring pedestrian/bike/car tirade for some.

Black_Knight

Benefits the market, benefits restaurants doing take aways. The street is pretty empty anyways, so it's not exactly inconveniencing pedestrians.

Get over yourselves

the beer revolu

It's an extremely worrying affirmation of the mind set of those in charge - if in doubt, let cars drive there.
This is such a retrograde step.
And just wait for the clamour to keep it this way.
And people still haven't given up on getting the Pana ban reversed.
It's hard to see how we will ever have meaningful change with regard to transport in the city.

whisky_galore

Where are these hoards of pedestrians coming from anyhow?
Can someone post a pic of these masses?

User142

the beer revolu wrote: »

It's an extremely worrying affirmation of the mind set of those in charge - if in doubt, let cars drive there.
This is such a retrograde step.
And just wait for the clamour to keep it this way.
And people still haven't given up on getting the Pana ban reversed.
It's hard to see how we will ever have meaningful change with regard to transport in the city.

I agree. People were able to shop in the English Market when the street was a pedestrianized zone and now they can't? And because there is less traffic it makes sense to get rid of the OPS pedestrian area. Get a grip.

We should be building temporary infrastructure to allow for social distancing in the city when we try reboot the economy. To allow for people to queue for stores, walk about while keeping their distance. We should be getting all this ready so that.

If the city isn't perceived as safe when the restrictions are lifted, the suburban middle aged middle class that traders so desperately want aren't going to return.

If the free parking, lack of any real traffic and lovely dry weather isn't enough to get you to go the English Market you never were going to go. Introducing another 10 parking spaces and allowing you to drive on OPS isn't going to get you in.

Ludo

User142 wrote: »

We should be building temporary infrastructure to allow for social distancing in the city when we try reboot the economy. To allow for people to queue for stores, walk about while keeping their distance. We should be getting all this ready so that.

If the city isn't perceived as safe when the restrictions are lifted, the suburban middle aged middle class that traders so desperately want aren't going to return.

^^^THIS^^^

rebs23

User142 wrote: »

I agree. People were able to shop in the English Market when the street was a pedestrianized zone and now they can't? And because there is less traffic it makes sense to get rid of the OPS pedestrian area. Get a grip.

We should be building temporary infrastructure to allow for social distancing in the city when we try reboot the economy. To allow for people to queue for stores, walk about while keeping their distance. We should be getting all this ready so that.

If the city isn't perceived as safe when the restrictions are lifted, the suburban middle aged middle class that traders so desperately want aren't going to return.

If the free parking, lack of any real traffic and lovely dry weather isn't enough to get you to go the English Market you never were going to go. Introducing another 10 parking spaces and allowing you to drive on OPS isn't going to get you in.

Seriously spot on, big effort needed to introduce Standard Operating Procedures for all sorts of business around the city centre. Illustrate how the city can operate safely for the next few months so that we can all feel safe working, living, shopping and eating in our fabolous City Centre.
It's been a few weeks now since I have been in the centre but i really miss it, wandering around the market, stopping off for a coffee or a bit to eat, watching the world go by. It really is without a shadow of a doubt the best City Centre in Ireland, nothing compares elsewhere to whats on offer in terms of food, cafe's, pubs and cultural institutions right in the centre of the city. I miss it cocooned just outside the 2km range. I might chance it next weekend.

beer enigma

Can I just ask how many of you on this thread live with 2km to exercise in town.

I visit the market weekly to shop and hardly saw a soul on Oliver Plunkett Street on Saturday. The temporary reopening serves restaurants with takeaway options and the market. Q park on Grand Parade is closed so it's North main Street or Paul Street neither great for take away.

Given the 2km rules I don't see any problem with a temporary opening of it if it helps save businesses and jobs.

I don't think people are thinking the city centre isn't an option unless I can drive up OPS, it's a red herring to make people think they are doing something positive with absolutely nothing to back it up.

For those that actually live in the city centre they now need to share narrow footpaths unessesarly. Cork is still caught in provincial town 1970s mentality when it comes to town planning.

hans aus dtschl

When Milan, Brighton, Paris, Madrid, Berlin and god knows how many other cities said "we should make more room for pedestrians and cyclists", Cork City Council thought "we should make more room for cars".

Anyone who has been keeping an eye on the council's attitude towards active travel over the past year or two sadly won't be surprised by this.
The people on the executive have little interest in active transport beyond ticking the boxes it is absolutely necessary for them to tick.

Black_Knight

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

When Milan, Brighton, Paris, Madrid, Berlin and god knows how many other cities said "we should make more room for pedestrians and cyclists", Cork City Council thought "we should make more room for cars".

Anyone who has been keeping an eye on the council's attitude towards active travel over the past year or two sadly won't be surprised by this.
The people on the executive have little interest in active transport beyond ticking the boxes it is absolutely necessary for them to tick.

Flip all pedestrians in town during the pandemic. Opening access up to cars allows more people to use the market/takeaways keeping businesses afloat. I go in every fortnight now to get our market shop, and there's flip all cars there also. It's so quiet, it's working perfectly as a shared space.

If they didn't open OPS for parking during the pandemic i'm sure ye'd all be complaining still.

namloc1980

Black_Knight wrote: »

Flip all pedestrians in town during the pandemic. Opening access up to cars allows more people to use the market/takeaways keeping businesses afloat. I go in every fortnight now to get our market shop, and there's flip all cars there also. It's so quiet, it's working perfectly as a shared space.

If they didn't open OPS for parking during the pandemic i'm sure ye'd all be complaining still.

So you're saying the pedestrianised OPS was keeping people away? Do you have anything at all to support this?

hans aus dtschl

Black_Knight wrote: »

Flip all pedestrians in town during the pandemic. Opening access up to cars allows more people to use the market/takeaways keeping businesses afloat. I go in every fortnight now to get our market shop, and there's flip all cars there also. It's so quiet, it's working perfectly as a shared space.

If they didn't open OPS for parking during the pandemic i'm sure ye'd all be complaining still.

I know I shouldn't but...

The entire concept - that all those other cities seemed to grasp - is that pedestrians now need more space in order to comply with social distance measures.
Cork allowed more cars in. but as you say yourself, there's few cars coming in. It obviously hasn't been an effective measure.

Cars don't have very much appetite for takeaways or market food. The council can (and will!) keep trying to entice cars in, but the penny will drop eventually, that people go shopping. And funnily enough, people don't like to dodge cars while doing that shopping. People don't like catching Covid 19 either. And by giving them less room than before, the City Council has made this part of the city slightly less attractive to pedestrians.

Would I be complaining "if they didn't open OPS for parking during the pandemic"....well, since I already complain that they didn't enact the pana traffic ban in full, I don't think I would, no.

Black_Knight

namloc1980 wrote: »

So you're saying the pedestrianised OPS was keeping people away? Do you have anything at all to support this?

I'm saying opening up OPS is allowing more people to the market/restaurants during these times.

Personally, i'm doing a big shop once every 2 weeks, and there's no way I could carry all that I get in that big market shop back to my house. I don't actually park or drive on OPS, but parking close to the market is certainly handy.

Multi-stories are closed, so there's less parking in town too.

I get in and out of town as quick as I can, the closer I can get to the market the better.

Black_Knight

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I know I shouldn't but...

The entire concept - that all those other cities seemed to grasp - is that pedestrians now need more space in order to comply with social distance measures.
Cork allowed more cars in. but as you say yourself, there's few cars coming in. It obviously hasn't been an effective measure.

Cars don't have very much appetite for takeaways or market food. The council can (and will!) keep trying to entice cars in, but the penny will drop eventually, that people go shopping. And funnily enough, people don't like to dodge cars while doing that shopping. People don't like catching Covid 19 either. And by giving them less room than before, the City Council has made this part of the city slightly less attractive to pedestrians.

If there was the same footfall as before the pandemic, sure, cars would make it harder to social distance, but there isn't. There's far less footfall. The odd car driving down OPS isn't going to force you to bump into anyone, at least this has been my experience of the 3 times i've gone in. It's only 1 perspective, but I think once i've waited about 3 seconds for a car to drive by so I could step off the path to avoid walking past a person.

TLDR; IMO, cars on OPS during the pandemic is a non-issue.

the beer revolu

Black_Knight wrote: »

If there was the same footfall as before the pandemic, sure, cars would make it harder to social distance, but there isn't. There's far less footfall. The odd car driving down OPS isn't going to force you to bump into anyone, at least this has been my experience of the 3 times i've gone in. It's only 1 perspective, but I think once i've waited about 3 seconds for a car to drive by so I could step off the path to avoid walking past a person.

TLDR; IMO, cars on OPS during the pandemic is a non-issue.

For me, it's not so much the physics of cars and pedestrians on OPS. It's the mindset of our powers that be that so easily and readily default to the idea that more cars in the city centre is a good thing.