FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What a f**king stupid statement....cop on

Tbf if he wants to carry the plaudits for doing well(and he has done well.tbf),he must also.carry the can for failures too

Its a part of life and leadership

Has Simon Harris feck'd up. Of course he has, along with the mistake being made by other ministers and the Taoiseach.

The problem is this is perfectly understandable in current circumstances. Without an elected Taoiseach, and a government that can be held to be fully accountable in the Dail, without an opposition being able to ask direct questions of ministers, or a weekly Taoiseach's question time, issues that will lead to serious problems or that could be nipped in the bud by valid and constructive criticism are being allowed to develop into serious issues that have unfortunately probably lead to needless deaths in some nursling homes..

What we truly need is a properly elected government, and for FG and FF to get their skates on and push their coalition talks at a far faster pace.
Anyone that has argued that coalition talks should be allowed to take their own pace and that 12 weeks and counting after an election having no government is perfectly acceptable surely has to accept that this has lead to serious mistakes being made, and that the existing caretaker government are totally responsible for these mistakes without being able to resort to the 'its a crisis, they are under enormous pressure' excuse.

At this stage its obvious that both Labour and the SD's have no interest in joining the FF and FG coalition. Its now down to the Greens, and whether FF and FG will accept their conditions or whether a speedy compromise can be found.
Personally I would expect it to be announced in the next 5 or 6 days that we either have a government or new elections are required.
What we have at the moment is a caretaker government with no mandate to govern that is totally unaccountable for its decisions and this is an utter disgrace 12 weeks after an election especially when we are in the midst of a national crisis.

Fann Linn

In fairness you can't really blame Harris. As Minister he was well out of his depth in looking after Health, prior to the election, so why should anyone expect seismic shifts from him when we're in the midst of a pandemic and he's still looking after it.

FrancieBrady

Fann Linn wrote: »

In fairness you can't really blame Harris. As Minister he was well out of his depth in looking after Health, prior to the election, so why should anyone expect seismic shifts from him when we're in the midst of a pandemic and he's still looking after it.

That's the nub of ir...pandemics kill people they dont make bad ministers into good one's
This minister's mess brought down the government.

^^^

To be fair to Harris he was thrown in at deep end, nobody could of made the children’s hospital a success, the whole country knew it would be a disaster and over budget

I blame Leo 100% for ghat, especially as he grew up beside the best site for the hospital and still overlooked it

But the stupidity of that statement above

Jinglejangle69

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbf if he wants to carry the plaudits for doing well(and he has done well.tbf),he must also.carry the can for failures too

Its a part of life and leadership

Doesnt work like that.

FG can't take credit for the recovery it was the IMF.

FG are bad with covid even though they were following guidelines.

But if their good with covid it's only because they were following guidelines.

Its basically FG bad no matter what with our comrades here.

Jinglejangle69

Fann Linn wrote: »

In fairness you can't really blame Harris. As Minister he was well out of his depth in looking after Health, prior to the election, so why should anyone expect seismic shifts from him when we're in the midst of a pandemic and he's still looking after it.

Who would be up to the job?

I'll awaot your answer that won't come.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Doesnt work like that.

FG can't take credit for the recovery it was the IMF.

FG are bad with covid even though they were following guidelines.

But if their good with covid it's only because they were following guidelines.

Its basically FG bad no matter what with our comrades here.

There is a reason why they only got 20% of the vote.
When you work out why try and see why some would be critical.

Fann Linn

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Who would be up to the job?

I'll awaot your answer that won't come.

No need for me to give an answer.Just a reminder to you however that the current one crashed dived the last govt.

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's the nub of ir...pandemics kill people they dont make bad ministers into good one's
This minister's mess brought down the government.

You can polish a turd Francie, but it's still a turd.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is a reason why they only got 20% of the vote.
When you work out why try and see why some would be critical.

Children Hospital and housing

That was it.....maybe a bit of BB

Both housing and the HSE are two fairy tales in the SF manifesto....

FrancieBrady

And on it goes.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1254130742600380422

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Children Hospital and housing

That was it.....maybe a bit of BB

Both housing and the HSE are two fairy ousing tales in the SF manifesto....

The housing was definitely doable.

Fixing the Health service for any government would be a tall ask. The problem is as it stands you could throw billions at it and the HSE would spend it and still require more without ever seriously fixing an issue.

What is required for the health service is either disbanding the HSE and rebuilding it from scratch, or a serious reform of the civil service. The problem with most civil servants is they will do things the same way they always did it. They dont care that what party is in power, what policies are in place, or how much money is or is not available.

Personally I think the only way to get government departments to really work properly is to have the most senior people in those department not on a civil service contract but a private sector fixed term contract. Increase the pay dramatically (and I mean dramatically so that only the very best would apply) , have serious bonuses in place for delivery below budget (maybe based on a very small percentage of saving) , and refuse to renew that contract if targets are not met. That way you would attract the very best senior management, reasonably expect spending to be within budget, and government policy rather than civil service self serving interest reach the front line of the services being delivered.

efanton wrote: »

The housing was definitely doable.

Fixing the Health service for any government would be a tall ask. The problem is as it stands you could throw billions at it and the HSE would spend it and still require more without ever seriously fixing an issue.

What is required for the health service is either disbanding the HSE and rebuilding it from scratch, or a serious reform of the civil service. The problem with most civil servants is they will do things the same way they always did it. They dont care that what party is in power, what policies are in place, or how much money is or is not available.

Personally I think the only way to get government departments to really work properly is to have the most senior people in those department not on a civil service contract but a private sector fixed term contract. Increase the pay dramatically (and I mean dramatically so that only the very best would apply) , have serious bonuses in place for delivery below budget (maybe based on a very small percentage of saving) , and refuse to renew that contract if targets are not met. That way you would attract the very best senior management, reasonably expect spending to be within budget, and government policy rather than civil service self serving interest reach the front line of the services being delivered.

Will your budget expansion not just be swallowed up in pay and bonuses.......or ask the people who suffered under cervical check scheme how cost-saving chasing cheaper alternative ends in healthcare

Liberialism,like communism is great in theory,but deosnt work in reality

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And on it goes.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1254130742600380422

Drew is after getting a few of his buddies from the PSNI appointed into fairly high profile positions within AGS (Assistant Commissioner and a Garda Superintendent)

I missed this in the news due to all the covid 19 related news recently.

Deleted User wrote: »

Will your budget expansion not just be swallowed up in pay and bonuses.......or ask the people who suffered under cervical check scheme how cost-saving chasing cheaper alternative ends in healthcare

Liberialism,like communism is great in theory,but deosnt work in reality

Not at all.
Think about it. the HSE budget for 2020 is €17,056 million

If you had a management team in there that only saved 1% that would be a saving of €170 million. The increase in senior management wages would not come close to a tiny fraction of that. The result would be either a saving for the country, or being able to deliver more and better services.

The problem with the civil service is two fold. They cant be fired or demoted, and promotion is generally automatic dependent of time served.
We can be fairly certain that there are some very senior civil servants currently in the civil service who are complete idiots at worst, or certainly the people you would not want to be managing multi billion euro budgets at best. If a senior civil servant fecks up the worst that will happen to them is that they get moved to a different department.

To be fair most civil servants are diligent, hardworking and try to do their best even under less than ideal circumstances so I'm not knocking the civil service in general.
But you would have to agree that being promoted due to time served does not necessarily result in the the best people ending up in the very senior positions, and they are the very people that will have the greatest effect on whether a department is run well, can operate within a budget, and use what budget they have to deliver best value for money.

efanton wrote: »

Not at all.
Think about it. the HSE budget for 2020 is €17,056 million

If you had a management team in there that only saved 1% that would be a saving of €170 million. The increase in senior management wages would not come close to a tiny fraction of that. The result would be either a saving for the country, or being able to deliver more and better services.

The problem with the civil service is two fold. They cant be fired or demoted, and promotion is generally automatic dependent of time served.
We can be fairly certain that there are some very senior civil servants currently in the civil service who are complete idiots at worst, or certainly the people you would not want to be managing multi billion euro budgets at best. If a senior civil servant fecks up the worst that will happen to them is that they get moved to a different department.

To be fair most civil servants are diligent, hardworking and try to do their best even under less than ideal circumstances so I'm not knocking the civil service in general.
But you would have to agree that being promoted due to time served does not necessarily result in the the best people ending up in the very senior positions, and they are the very people that will have the greatest effect on whether a department is run well, can operate within a budget, and use what budget they have to deliver best value for money.

It is said mangers rise to their own level of incompetemce

From my experience of civil servents its usually who you know,gets ya in the door and/or promoted,which is why so many senior civil servents are hand-in-hand with FF in particular.......otherwise by law of averages a pbp/shinner would rise fairly high in any given department by now

Personally i cant see a ff led government screwing over their own

Deleted User wrote: »

It is said mangers rise to their own level of incompetemce

From my experience of civil servents its usually who you know,gets ya in the door and/or promoted,which is why so many senior civil servents are hand-in-hand with FF in particular.......otherwise by law of averages a pbp/shinner would rise fairly high in any given department by now

Personally i cant see a ff led government screwing over their own

There's some of that to it too.

I'm a socialist at heart, but I can see the benefit of having very well paid senior management at the top of the civil service who are on fixed term contracts and not the standard civil servant contract. If existing civil servants choose to take those senior positions on they would know they had to deliver, (but at the same time be rewarded handsomely), or they could just choose to remain on a civil service contract at a slightly lower but very secure position.
The point is no civil servant would apply for those positions unless they were confident they could deliver otherwise in a year or twos time they would find themselves jobless.

Fixed term contracts would also sort out the problem of nepotism as well. There would no longer be jobs for life for the boys (or girls).

efanton wrote: »

The housing was definitely doable.

Fixing the Health service for any government would be a tall ask. The problem is as it stands you could throw billions at it and the HSE would spend it and still require more without ever seriously fixing an issue.

What is required for the health service is either disbanding the HSE and rebuilding it from scratch, or a serious reform of the civil service. The problem with most civil servants is they will do things the same way they always did it. They dont care that what party is in power, what policies are in place, or how much money is or is not available.

Personally I think the only way to get government departments to really work properly is to have the most senior people in those department not on a civil service contract but a private sector fixed term contract. Increase the pay dramatically (and I mean dramatically so that only the very best would apply) , have serious bonuses in place for delivery below budget (maybe based on a very small percentage of saving) , and refuse to renew that contract if targets are not met. That way you would attract the very best senior management, reasonably expect spending to be within budget, and government policy rather than civil service self serving interest reach the front line of the services being delivered.

The housing, not really. It was never going to stand up but they never expected it to. In reality if another election came around the biggest problem SF would have is people would actually read the manifesto and pull the s**t out of it.....

Going into the HSE and offering more money is not going to result in a better HSE. They are never going to attract the best senior management. UNless of course we cripple the whole country to pay for it.

Also why would the best management join if they are on fixed terms contract? which other companies in Ireland would offer a top manager a fixed term contract?

Not saying your 100% wrong but a few issues

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The housing, not really. It was never going to stand up but they never expected it to. In reality if another election came around the biggest problem SF would have is people would actually read the manifesto and pull the s**t out of it.....

Going into the HSE and offering more money is not going to result in a better HSE. They are never going to attract the best senior management. UNless of course we cripple the whole country to pay for it.

Also why would the best management join if they are on fixed terms contract? which other companies in Ireland would offer a top manager a fixed term contract?

Not saying your 100% wrong but a few issues

What company in ireland deosnt offer fixed term contracts to managers,jobs for life are almost unheard of??

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The housing, not really. It was never going to stand up but they never expected it to. In reality if another election came around the biggest problem SF would have is people would actually read the manifesto and pull the s**t out of it.....

Going into the HSE and offering more money is not going to result in a better HSE. They are never going to attract the best senior management. UNless of course we cripple the whole country to pay for it.

Also why would the best management join if they are on fixed terms contract? which other companies in Ireland would offer a top manager a fixed term contract?

Not saying your 100% wrong but a few issues

Housing is basically capital expenditure. SF wanted to spend an additional 6 billion. Amortised over 25 years that would work out at about 250 million a year. That would be perfectly affordable.

FF and FG are now claiming they can deliver 100,000 additional homes as well.
How are they possibly going to be able to do that, if it was impossible?

There are loads of very senior management positions offered on a contract basis with the biggest companies across the world. It suits some of the best as they can go in fix something and once they have dealt with a challenge move on to something else if they wish.

As regard how is it paid for I already explained that.
the HSE budget for 2020 is €17,056 million
If you had a management team in there that only saved 1% that would be a saving of €170 million. The increase in senior management wages would not come close to a tiny fraction of that. The result would be either a saving for the country, or being able to deliver more and better services.
It would not cost more at all, in fact it would likely save the country a fortune or mean that additional services could be delivered for the same budget.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is said mangers rise to their own level of incompetemce

From my experience of civil servents its usually who you know,gets ya in the door and/or promoted,which is why so many senior civil servents are hand-in-hand with FF in particular.......otherwise by law of averages a pbp/shinner would rise fairly high in any given department by now

Personally i cant see a ff led government screwing over their own

Are you trying to say that people don’t get promoted because they support SF or PBP?

efanton wrote: »

Housing is basically capital expenditure. SF wanted to spend an additional 6 billion. Amortised over 25 years that would work out at about 250 million a year. That would be perfectly affordable.

FF and FG are now claiming they can deliver 100,000 additional homes as well.
How are they possibly going to be able to do that, if it was impossible?

There are loads of very senior management positions offered on a contract basis with the biggest companies across the world. It suits some of the best as they can go in fix something and once they have dealt with a challenge move on to something else if they wish.

As regard how is it paid for I already explained that.
the HSE budget for 2020 is €17,056 million
If you had a management team in there that only saved 1% that would be a saving of €170 million. The increase in senior management wages would not come close to a tiny fraction of that. The result would be either a saving for the country, or being able to deliver more and better services.
It would not cost more at all, in fact it would likely save the country a fortune or mean that additional services could be delivered for the same budget.

It’s not 100k new houses, 50k are already been built....so the numbers are BS

The HSE is a basket case, you want to try hire a top manager on performance base and then give short term contract?

So he/she starts to implement a plan, 15 months in has a bad quarter and you sack, bring in new person who throws all the other person idea out and starts again....

Do you work in it have worked with the HSE at all?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are you trying to say that people don’t get promoted because they support SF or PBP?

No?

But that people dont get into civil service in first place unless they know someone,which is why ff held power for so long,jobs for boys

I remember once wanting to apply for TAMS1 and being advised to join FF to ease my application through (i didnt join in end as i got oppurtunity to do cheaper not needing grants,but its a kind of open,unspoken corruption that used be about them)

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No?

But that people dont get into civil service in first place unless they know someone,which is why ff held power for so long,jobs for boys

I remember once wanting to apply for TAMS1 and being advised to join FF to ease my application through (i didnt join in end as i got oppurtunity to do cheaper not needing grants,but its a kind of open,unspoken corruption that used be about them)

That’s a load of BS....Why do you feel the need to make stuff up?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That’s a load of BS....Why do you feel the need to make stuff up?

Except its not though??

You likely dont even know what tams1 is,yet your screaming bull****??

Like it is widely acknowledged that council/semi state jobs are a who you know to get in??

Its always been that way,ff were tradionally largest party in state,its hardly earth shattering revelation to point out they will be over represented in these type jobs??

Phoebas

Deleted User wrote: »

But that people dont get into civil service in first place unless they know someone,which is why ff held power for so long,jobs for boys

Absolute complete load of twaddle.

Phoebas wrote: »

Absolute complete load of twaddle.

Not about my way its not??

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except its not though??

You likely dont even know what tams1 is,yet your screaming bull****??

Like it is widely acknowledged that council/semi state jobs are a who you know to get in??

Its always been that way,ff were tradionally largest party in state,its hardly earth shattering revelation to point out they will be over represented in these type jobs??

Your talking s**t....