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Off Topic Thread 4.0

Zzippy

Thread continued from here

The usual rules apply. Non-rugby talk here. Consider this a social place, but like a pub, things like religion and politics can be divisive, so don't say things here you wouldn't say to someone's face in the pub. Sober

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pickarooney

If those videos of assclowns queuing for McDonald's are anything to go by, very few people are likely to change anything about the way they live.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

I've friends who are suddenly spending hours on 1,000 piece jigsaws and ordering more online. Quizzes, gardening, yoga, DIY, board games etc. are all seeing a big uplift.

I started hosting a regular online quiz from Paddys day. Do it twice a week.

I never really intended it to last this long, but more than 1,000 teams have played today. We had way more than 200 teams last night. We are beginning to wonder if there will still be demand post Covid.

mfceiling

errlloyd wrote: »

I started hosting a regular online quiz from Paddys day. Do it twice a week.

I never really intended it to last this long, but more than 1,000 teams have played today. We had way more than 200 teams last night. We are beginning to wonder if there will still be demand post Covid.

Any chance of a link? Sounds like a bit of crack.

[Deleted User]

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's the new paradigm Venjur. We're suddenly discovering things that our parents and grandparents used to enjoy doing before we got all modernised.

To be fair I've been into gardening or more specifically growing herbs / food for a fair while and I'm lucky enough in that I had quite a few lockdown friendly hobbies before all this kicked off but a huge number of friends and neighbors have certainly developed interests which I think will persist long after things return to whatever version of normal the future holds for us.

Speaking of normality - I think Trump might have seriously damaged the brand finally. The unbelievable stupidity of his comments are hard to defend and resorting to 'it was sarcasm' is exceedingly weak. There seems to be no appetite from his sphere of cheerleaders to defend the comments and early attempts by his media supporters to link his suggestions to actual or ongoing scientific developments was summarily undermined by the man himself calling it all a joke.

The fact that hundreds of people are dying every day in America as a direct consequence of Trump's actions seems tolerable to the American right but this level of humiliation of their movement may not be.

Stheno

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1254041365014614017?s=19

errlloyd

mfceiling wrote: »

Any chance of a link? Sounds like a bit of crack.

www.table.fish

We stream live on youtube and you can answer there. Cheating is an honesty system (that I suspect isn't working but anyway)

Podge_irl

Stheno wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1254041365014614017?s=19

Easing restrictions, letting it come back and then bringing back in restrictions on a cycle seems to be the only way people will ever accept the restrictions though. Continuing lockdowns while there is no obvious danger just won't be sustainable.

[Deleted User]

errlloyd wrote: »

www.table.fish

We stream live on youtube and you can answer there. Cheating is an honesty system (that I suspect isn't working but anyway)

That is very high tech altogether

pickarooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be fair I've been into gardening or more specifically growing herbs / food for a fair while and I'm lucky enough in that I had quite a few lockdown friendly hobbies before all this kicked off but a huge number of friends and neighbors have certainly developed interests which I think will persist long after things return to whatever version of normal the future holds for us.

Speaking of normality - I think Trump might have seriously damaged the brand finally. The unbelievable stupidity of his comments are hard to defend and resorting to 'it was sarcasm' is exceedingly weak. There seems to be no appetite from his sphere of cheerleaders to defend the comments and early attempts by his media supporters to link his suggestions to actual or ongoing scientific developments was summarily undermined by the man himself calling it all a joke.

The fact that hundreds of people are dying every day in America as a direct consequence of Trump's actions seems tolerable to the American right but this level of humiliation of their movement may not be.

Typical. The one piece of advice of his that his followers should have gone with

Stheno

Podge_irl wrote: »

Easing restrictions, letting it come back and then bringing back in restrictions on a cycle seems to be the only way people will ever accept the restrictions though. Continuing lockdowns while there is no obvious danger just won't be sustainable.

Agreed and tbe the guy quoted was always at the more extreme end when it came to restrictions

He wanted more of them and earlier weeks ago

[Deleted User]

UK staying in lockdown for the foreseeable. Worrying to see the numbers of deaths still so high, the level of transmission obviously continued into the lockdown for a period of time.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

Speaking of normality - I think Trump might have seriously damaged the brand finally. The unbelievable stupidity of his comments are hard to defend and resorting to 'it was sarcasm' is exceedingly weak. There seems to be no appetite from his sphere of cheerleaders to defend the comments and early attempts by his media supporters to link his suggestions to actual or ongoing scientific developments was summarily undermined by the man himself calling it all a joke.

The thing that will probably damage him more than the stupid stuff will be his pathetic attempts to try and walk back what he said. When he comes out with whatever nonsense he normally does, his base just lap it up as him putting it up to the libs. But chickening out and running away? Not so much.

Bazzo

I can practically see the gears turning in his head

[Deleted User]

It really does highlight the sheer scale of his ego.

"I'm in a room with all these experts - I wonder if they haven't thought of this yet".

Neil3030

Bazzo wrote: »

I can practically see the gears turning in his head

Stheno

Bazzo wrote: »

I can practically see the gears turning in his head

Scaramucci was on tv earlier saying something like youd try to talk to him and his alternative reality would kick in

Panda Killa

Is there anything to be said for a mental fitness test ?
I'd be sure that some in the Republican party would be considering this....
personally I think the time has long passed where you could see Trump as an eccentric buffoon and is definitely mentally unwell

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

It really does highlight the sheer scale of his ego.

"I'm in a room with all these experts - I wonder if they haven't thought of this yet".

The scale of his ego and the lack of intelligence. A 10 year old child would have enough cop on to figure out, what he was suggesting was incredibly dangerous.

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It really does highlight the sheer scale of his ego.

"I'm in a room with all these experts - I wonder if they haven't thought of this yet".

You contract Coronavirus. You drink bleach. You die. You don't pass the virus on.

The science is sound.

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

You contract Coronavirus. You drink bleach. You die. You don't pass the virus on.

The science is sound.

And people are "following the science". New York City:

And Illinois:

And of course Tennessee:

vienne86

Former Former wrote: »

You contract Coronavirus. You drink bleach. You die. You don't pass the virus on.

The science is sound.

Or you could just shoot yourself!

Anyway, it looks like he has cancelled his gigs now. Phew!

Buer

prawnsambo wrote: »

And people are "following the science". New York City:

And Illinois:

And of course Tennessee:

Not to defend the orange one but this is all just circumstantial evidence. There's no way of actually correlating the increase directly to his comments thus far and the citations for context don't stand up to much scrutiny. I'd well believe there is but none of these (or anything I've seen yet) really qualify that. Each article is linking the increase to Trump but the fact is that the sale of domestic cleaning products and people attempting to sterilise their homes has increased massively. It's completely natural to expect an increase in poison related incidents or calls in such a time.

For example, the first one says there were double the number of cases in the 18 hour period after Trump's comments compared with the same period last year. How on earth is the same period in 2019 in any way a relevant sample in the current situation? What about the 18 hours prior to his comments? The one from Tennessee talks about the doctor having seen 5 patients for hydrogen peroxide ingestion but admits that is since January.

I have almost as little confidence in America's left to be impartial and clear in their communications as the right.

Neil3030

Trump cancelling the briefings is not good news for Biden. Trump could pretty much disappear for a few months and leave more than capable governors like Inslee, Newsome, Cuomo etc to figure this out. The US still have their financial strength, deep resources in medical and scientific intelligence and the most sophisticated military apparatus on earth. With the right guidance, they may well respond best to the second wave, or reopen their economy faster than anyone. In a few months the death toll of March/April could be a distant memory, and Trump can come back heavy with rhetoric that the recovery was all on him. People have short memories.

sydthebeat

Neil3030 wrote: »

.... People have short memories.

In a couple of days the US covid death number is going to exceed the Vietnam war.

The legacy of that war as being unnecessary and horrific is still vivid today.

I think the memory of the death numbers of this pandemic in America is going to be recalled for a long time and the buck will stop at the feet of the Donald for a long time after he is gone.

Biden isn't as hated as hillary was, in general. That alone will be enough to get him over the line.

Neil3030

sydthebeat wrote: »

In a couple of days the US covid death number is going to exceed the Vietnam war.

The legacy of that war as being unnecessary and horrific is still vivid today.

I think the memory of the death numbers of this pandemic in America is going to be recalled for a long time and the buck will stop at the feet of the Donald for a long time after he is gone.

Biden isn't as hated as hillary was, in general. That alone will be enough to get him over the line.

Death toll of US citizens fighting in the Iraq war neared 5k, but they elected a Republican again in a little over a decade.

I agree with you that Biden likely still wins, but Trump has probably made the most sensible campaign move possible by taking a step back. All he needs to do now is let the Governors sort it out, and while things are looking bad, selectively criticise Democrats like Cuomo etc., and once things start looking good, praise himself, first and foremost, and Republican Governors thereafter.

[Deleted User]

Neil3030 wrote: »

Death toll of US citizens fighting in the Iraq war neared 5k, but they elected a Republican again in a little over a decade.

I agree with you that Biden likely still wins, but Trump has probably made the most sensible campaign move possible by taking a step back. All he needs to do now is let the Governors sort it out, and while things are looking bad, selectively criticise Democrats like Cuomo etc., and once things start looking good, praise himself, first and foremost, and Republican Governors thereafter.

I said it earlier in the thread but I think he has legitimately damaged the brand in a meaningful way this time. Don't get me wrong - he has debased himself plenty of times before but this was an astonishingly simple minded suggestion worsened by his very transparent and quite pathetic excuse making afterwards.

His polling is deteriorating and the coverage he typically enjoys is definitely a liability right now hence him stepping back. I cast an eye on Fox news the odd time and it's like he doesn't exist the last few days - virtually no Trump content anywhere.

Populism is great until you lose the audience and then they turn on you. A few months ago he was looking at contesting the election against Sanders and his 'socialist' platform against a strong US economy. Now the economy is in tatters and Biden was part of the Obama ticket that led the US out of the 2008 crisis.

American politics seems to follow a logic that I quite clearly don't understand but I think he's quite damaged now and will struggle.

jacothelad

Neil3030 wrote: »

Hey Jaco, do you know this guy: https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1164/rccm.202004-1076ED

Martin Tobin, Prof at U Chicago, considered quite the alpha bulldog of critical care.

It's great that he wrote this; emphasising that people should intubate/ventilate Covid patients based on knowledge of physiologic state and whole picture, and not per some mindless protocol.

"The surest way to increase Covid-19 mortality is liberal use of intubation and mechanical ventilation."

He's a UCD alumnus....and a real big wheel in Pulmonary medicine in N.America. It's one of the startling stats that 50% of ICU patients die in Covid-19. Too many are likely to be intubated.

Only about half of the sickest Covid-19 patients, admitted to intensive care struggling to breathe, are being put on mechanical ventilators, it has emerged, as evidence grows that many do better with non-invasive help.
The rush to increase the number of ventilators in Britain from 8,000 to 18,000 was a response to early assumptions that intubation was the only way to save the lives of those who become severely ill. Industry was urged to switch production, and Dyson was among the companies volunteering to help, but it has now been told by the government its services are not needed.

The sudden onset of a cytokine storm often is the cause of those who seem to be doing well only to crash and not recover. The use of CPAP devices can stop the need for intubation and induced coma in some and maybe this might improve things as more become available. This is the sword of Damocles hanging over those poor physicians who have to make life or death choices over those who will survive and those who will not. It's a pity that there isn't more access to ECMO. The survival rates are higher but I suppose that is unrealistic in a pandemic of this order.

jacothelad

Around the world, doctors are increasingly reluctant to use mechanical ventilation for any but the severest cases. A study of outcomes in New York published on Wednesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 88% of those put on mechanical ventilation in critical care units died.
But that’s a Catch 22 situation. These were probably the sickest patients, whose lungs were barely functioning and would have died without invasive ventilation.

Neil3030

Compliance seems to have been a major contributor to the early confusion:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2765302

Most protocols assumed high lung elasticity, which made intubation/ventilation a terrible idea for many patients. Ventilators ended up ripping them to shreds.

Stheno

Neil3030 wrote: »

Compliance seems to have been a major contributor to the early confusion:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2765302

Most protocols assumed high lung elasticity, which made intubation/ventilation a terrible idea for many patients. Ventilators ended up ripping them to shreds.

Excuse the stupid question I've done a little reading and so far my understanding is that the high volumes of oxygen due to ventilation are actually counterproductive as the lungs are so blocked they cant cope with the volume

Is that correct?