sabat wrote: » So you agree with me then. The point is that it's being taught as a real phenomenon in schools that claim to have no religion. You can look up myriad articles yourself on the potential pitfalls of meditation-now imagine what could happen with a barely-trained primary school teacher and 30 different young minds. The real question is why are they pushing it so much?
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: » So, there are no issues you are aware of and can identify. Gramd. That's that sorted
sabat wrote: » Do you have kids in an ET?
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » It depends what you mean "hate god". It is not possibly to ACTUALLY hate someone or something you do not even believe exists. I only "hate" god in the same way as I "hate" the character Silas Marner. In that I can envision the character in my imagination as a representation and judge them morally from what I have been told about their character in their relevant work of fiction. The problem here is that "sin" is just an arbitrary concept that you subjectively apply to anything you personally do not like. Rather than argue that any particular thing is immoral or unethical you merely call it "sin" and act like that is job done. From experience of people espousing the things you are here, I would guess you find things like abortion and homosexuality to be "sin". Yet when pressed on any actual arguments against either you will likely have nothing more than appeals to your imaginary friend's opinions on the matter. So contrary to your imagination the issue is not that people like me "like sin". Rather it is that people like me see nothing morally or ethically problematic with many of the things you apply that label to. And we realise that merely shouting that label at something, does not make it bad, wrong or evil. "Sin" to me means nothing more than things you are not allowed do in your particular club house as part of your particular hobby. And that's FINE with me. There is one reason and one reason only I do not think there is a god. And it is not remotely represented in your diatribe above. It is this: No one, least of all you, has yet offered me a single shred of argument, evidence, data or reasoning that lends even a modicum of credence to the claim our universe, or it's contents, was created or is being in any way maintained by a non-human intelligent or intentional agent.
one world order wrote: » The evidence of God's creation is all around you. God provided you with light, air, water and food to eat.This does not happen by a random big bang. God has also given you a conscience and provided you with morals, for example you know it's wrong to murder someone. Everyone was born with the knowledge they have a higher creator, but some like yourself suppress it. We are a sinful people and alot of people like their sin. God provided the ten commandments to show what is right or wrong. If this didn't exist then what might be deemed acceptable by one person by their own reasoning is not for others. When no laws exist, society falls down. But the problem of sin has always existed throughout mankind and like a judge, God must punish sin. However God still loves his people and this is why he sent Jesus into this world to take the punishment for our sin. Not everyone will accept that free gift and welcome the holy spirit into their heart and for those that don't, they will not be saved. The bible says this world is controlled by the evil one and warns us not to be deceived. There is a spiritual war going on in this world and many people are being led astray. You may not be in tune to it but there are people at the top of our pyramid that continue to lead people away from God.
sabat wrote: » It says it right there- "we teach spirituality." That is a religious statement about a supernatural concept.
sabat wrote: » I didn't say meditation is supernatural but it's completely inappropriate for 5 and 6 year olds to be partaking in it.
sabat wrote: » You can look up myriad articles yourself on the potential pitfalls of meditation
sabat wrote: » a barely-trained primary school teacher and 30 different young minds.
one world order wrote: » The evidence of God's creation is all around you. God provided you with light, air, water and food to eat.
one world order wrote: » This does not happen by a random big bang. God has also given you a conscience and provided you with morals, for example you know it's wrong to murder someone. Everyone was born with the knowledge they have a higher creator, but some like yourself suppress it.
one world order wrote: » We are a sinful people and alot of people like their sin. God provided the ten commandments to show what is right or wrong. If this didn't exist then what might be deemed acceptable by one person by their own reasoning is not for others.
one world order wrote: » The bible says this world is controlled by the evil one and warns us not to be deceived.
one world order wrote: » There is a spiritual war going on in this world and many people are being led astray. You may not be in tune to it but there are people at the top of our pyramid that continue to lead people away from God.
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » Circular begging the question from you there. "What is the evidence god created everything?" "Everything is!". That is not an answer, that is a dodge from you. It is like going into a court room and when asked "What is the evidence the accused committed the murder?" and you replying "A murder has occured and they don't happen by themselves!". You are not evidencing your answer to the question of existence therefore. You are merely restating the question AS evidence of itself. Ah the "you know I am right you are just denying it" ploy. Honesty is not to be your approach to the conversation therefore I take it, for shame. The appeal to morality fallacy is just more of the same dodge as above. You are merely listing things that exist, like Oxygen and our moral sense, and merely declaring by decree that a god did it. Your entire approach to evidencing that a god exists, is merely to assert it to be so therefore. Which is what happens anyway. You can lock two devout Catholics in a room together and they will not at all agree over morality. You can lock Bill O'Reilly and Andrew Sullivan in a room together..... both devout Catholics.... and they will not reach a consensus on this alleged god's opinion of homosexuality, for example. Your 10 commandments seem more in the business of protecting a jealous god from other religions than protecting morality. And I simply reject the notion that murder, pillage, rape were all considered entirely kosher until the 10 commandments appeared. I see nothing about morality, nor have you shown anything at all, that requires a god for us to engage with it. Your claim "you know it's wrong to murder someone" is simply false. Let me tell you what I know and believe, rather than you telling me what I think. I do not "know" murder to be wrong. Rather I have considered the topic rationally and realised that a society without murder is one me and my loved ones can function in better, where we can live thrive and survive, and where our mental health and well being will be maximised. I do not kill others because I want to live in a society where killing is not done. Of course it does. And it also calls people who do not believe your fantasies "fools". That is kinda par for the course for making up this kind of nonsense. You insult, threaten, cajole, the mark into accepting it with canards like "the deceiver". So when anyone notices you have not offered a SHRED of evidence for your claims.... you can play the narrative of how it must be the devil talking. And if they are leading people towards evidence based rationality where they act upon ideas and claims that are supported by argument, evidence, data and reason...... then long may the people in the "top of our pyramid" continue to do so!
Geuze wrote: » Do we want all secondary schools to be VEC/ETB schools? I don't.
one world order wrote: » Think of this way, a book can't make itself, a building has a creator, the same way as the universe and world we live in has a creator. But your saying this universe created itself. Do you see how irrational that is. God's creation is all around you, but you've instead hardened your heart and refuse to believe. Right and wrong was given to us by God with the 10 commandments as there will always be people that use their own morality to justify what is right and wrong. We needed this, as like a child God acted like a father to bring us all under the same law. By saying you are not a sinner you are calling your father a liar and we all know everyone has broken the commandments at some point. People have a choice to make. Either recognise they are a sinner and accept Jesus as their saviour, thereby allowing the holy spirit to work within them or instead continue to reject God and putting your trust in the false idols of this world. Christ brings peace and eternal life while this world brings death.
Manach wrote: » That you deliberty seek to mispresent your own cause is te only thing that seems strange. That the atheists willfully and progressively seek the elimation of faith in the public square is clear from other countries ie the lacisation laws of France. The endgoal is the banishment of old-school religion and the replacement with the secular type that brooks no rivials.
jaxxx wrote: » Anyway back on topic. Religion has no place in education. End of. Children should be taught about logical and critical thinking, basic morality and ethics that have ZERO religious prejudice behind it all [you don't need a religion to tell you that rape/murder/torture are horrible crimes!]. Taught fact, not fiction. Religion should have no place in education or politics. Religion is a personal choice, and therefore should not have a single cent put towards it with public money. If the Pope wants to come to Ireland again, let him buy a ticket like any other tourist.
Ray Donovan wrote: » You'd swear religious doctrine and theology was being rammed down 6 year old's throats. Religion in primary school is basically treat everyone and everything with respect etc etc.
Your child goes to a catholic school and you don't want him/her doing religion. No biggie. Ring the principal and tell him/her you don't want your child doing religion. Your child's teacher doesn't really mind one way or the other and will give them a book to read during religion and they don't receive Communion and Confirmation. That's pretty much the reality of it. Children aren't exactly being taught to lead the next Christian crusade in school you know!!
one world order wrote: » Think of this way, a book can't make itself
Ray Donovan wrote: » Your child's teacher doesn't really mind one way or the other and will give them a book to read during religion and they don't receive Communion and Confirmation. That's pretty much the reality of it.
One eyed Jack wrote: » And there was I thinking we live in a democratic society where parents are entrusted with decisions regarding how their children are to be educated and where public money is spent on providing services to the public, such as providing for the education of children.
dvdman1 wrote: I sent my son to a catholic school...Better the devil you know. Not an ideal situation but it pays some homage to our past...without the church education in Ireland would have been very rudimentary or non existant in some parts.
Mrs OBumble wrote: » Ah, no. Atheism is a specific belief that God does not exist. Religious schools do not teach this.
Sean.3516 wrote: » Yes. This is my whole point. If the Catholic Church wants to teach Catholicism to its adherents and this is something parents want, then there's no reason that they should be prevented from doing that.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » No-one is suggesting preventing them doing that. We are suggesting we stop paying them to do it with our taxes.
kippy wrote: » Unfortunately your taxes pay for many things you may not agree with. Including private fee paying schools currently.
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » Well yes, that is why it is good we live in a democracy where we instigate change through education, debate, elections and activism.... is it not? Though apparently when some people use their democratic voice to maintain the status quo that is democracy..... but if another person uses it to suggest change, that is autocracy. Who knew?
Ray Donovan wrote: » Yes, because in fairness primary schools have a team of free teachers ready at the drop of a hat to take kids out of their classroom and supervise them when they opt out of religion!!! Any chance you’d like to join the rest of us in the real world!
kippy wrote: » I wasn't making the suggestions you pointed out in the second paragraph
kippy wrote: » just pointing out that on a personal level you don't get to chose where your taxes go.
Mrs OBumble wrote: » So you think religious parents should pay for their kids education, and pay taxes to educate your kids too?
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » Further merely being asked to sit IN the religion class with a book as you describe is hardly "opting out". It is just a way to keep the child in the class essentially under the pretence of exclusion.
