FrancieBrady wrote: » Because she wasn't prepared to buy power...quite simple. FF and FG are about to do it...vague bull**** programme for government... constituency bonanzas for those willing to prop them up. It's how it works and how it always worked from Tony Gregory to Shane Ross.
tobsey wrote: » Well what use is she then. She only got 25% of the vote. She has no divine right to implement her party’s policies as they see fit. She needs to compromise and work with people operating in the real world who want to get things done. That’s if she and SF actually want to do anything, or maybe they’d rather just give out from the opposition benches and in the media and achieve nothing.
efanton wrote: » I would have no problem with her giving way on the top tax band if a half decent minimum wage was guaranteed, and zero hours contracts were outlawed.
efanton wrote: » Actually not true Taxation is not just income tax. The lower paid pay proportionately more in all the other taxes and levies when you compare take home pay to what these taxes take. Would that mean that the top 5% pay significantly more tax in total? yes but I doubt it is close to the 60% you claim. In fat the CSO would agree with me Total income tax collected 2017 €84,138.85 Million after deductions Those earning 100k or more account for 6.7% of all cases in 2017 paying €19,217.94 million after deductions 2017 All Persons Gross income 100,000 to 150,000 Number of Income Cases (Number) 95,613 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 3.88 Gross Income Charged (Million) 11,394.24 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 11.45 Tax Deducted (Million) 2,690.34 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 17.49 150,000 to 200,000 Number of Income Cases (Number) 26,402 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 1.07 Gross Income Charged (Million) 4,506.20 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 4.53 Tax Deducted (Million) 1,241.81 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 8.07 200,000 to 275,000 Number of Income Cases (Number) 14,196 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 0.58 Gross Income Charged (Million) 3,280.16 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 3.30 Tax Deducted (Million) 984.83 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 6.40 275,000 and over Number of Income Cases (Number) 14,060 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 0.57 Gross Income Charged (Million) 7,412.22 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 7.45 Tax Deducted (Million) 2,457.90 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 15.98 Link to CSO stats if you want to check it out for yourself.https://statbank.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=RVA01&PLanguage=0
efanton wrote: » Actually not true Taxation is not just income tax. The lower paid pay proportionately more in all the other taxes and levies when you compare take home pay to what these taxes take. Would that mean that the top 5% pay significantly more tax in total? yes but I doubt it is close to the 60% you claim. In fat the CSO would agree with me Total income tax collected 2017 €84,138.85 Million after deductions Those earning 100k or more account for 6.7% of all cases in 2017 paying €19,217.94 million after deductions 2017 All Persons Gross income 100,000 to 150,000 Number of Income Cases (Number) 95,613 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 3.88 Gross Income Charged (Million) 11,394.24 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 11.45 Tax Deducted (Million) 2,690.34 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 17.49 150,000 to 200,000 Number of Income Cases (Number) 26,402 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 1.07 Gross Income Charged (Million) 4,506.20 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 4.53 Tax Deducted (Million) 1,241.81 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 8.07 200,000 to 275,000 Number of Income Cases (Number) 14,196 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 0.58 Gross Income Charged (Million) 3,280.16 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 3.30 Tax Deducted (Million) 984.83 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 6.40 275,000 and over Number of Income Cases (Number) 14,060 Percentage of the Total Number of Income Cases (%) 0.57 Gross Income Charged (Million) 7,412.22 Percentage of the Total Gross Income Charged (%) 7.45 Tax Deducted (Million) 2,457.90 Percentage of the Total Tax Deducted (%) 15.98 Link to CSO stats if you want to check it out for yourself.
croker99 wrote: » " Total income tax collected 2017 €84,138.85 Million" The link says that total tax collected was 15.4bn It also says that 7.4bn of the 15.4bn is paid by those on over 100k. So 48% of income tax paid by about 150,000, or about 6.1% of the total of 2.46 million. Or, 150,000 in this country with a population of about 5 million are paying half of all the income tax. You're not very good at this.
The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development agrees. It cites the State as the second most progressive for income tax among its 36 member countries, and the most progressive among its EU members.
For many years, the ITI has been comparing how much tax average workers pay here compared with seven other countries: the UK, the US, Germany, France, Sweden, Singapore and Switzerland. It has picked these countries for comparison because they, too, are exporting open economies and compete with the State for inward investment. In its latest analysis, it found that the State has the second-lowest effective personal tax rate among all eight countries for workers on lower salaries. But as salary levels rise, the State quickly moves up the international income tax league table.
For example, in 2015, the top 1% of income earners paid 19% of all personal taxes while just twelve months later this is estimated to be 22%.
In 2017, it is estimated that the bottom 50% of income earners will pay 3.6% of the income tax take
efanton wrote: » The lower paid pay proportionately more in all the other taxes and levies when you compare take home pay to what these taxes take.
Would that mean that the top 5% pay significantly more tax in total? yes but I doubt it is close to the 60% you claim. In fat the CSO would agree with me
markodaly wrote: » I would like to see a source for this claim
markodaly wrote: » Ireland already has one of the highest minimum wages in the OECD and EU. How much more should it go to, keeping in mind that large scale automation of jobs is coming? You have a bot above giving out about the high costs of things in Ireland, well you do know that the cost of labour is often the primary cause of this?? Also, those on the minimum wage in Ireland pay no income tax, which we in Ireland are an outlier on. By all means, advocate European or Scandanavian public services but that means those bottom 25% wage earns will start paying a hell of a lot more taxes. Good luck to any party advocating that. No, in Ireland we get the 'Irish solution to the Irish problem'. Advocate Scandanavian public services but get someone else somewhere to pay for it all. Kind of like how SF are against property taxes in the Republic, but for them in the North....
Yurt! wrote: » Nevin Economic Institute: "Specifically, the bottom 10 per cent of the population forked out 30.5 per cent of their income in total tax, while the top 10 per cent paid 29.6 per cent."https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/poorer-people-in-ireland-pay-out-more-of-their-income-in-tax-1.1910725 The exchequer gets more total tax proportionally out of poorer individuals than they do out of the richest strata in society. Fairly obvious, and particularly true of countries with high levels of indirect taxation as Ireland does. I'm not sure what squeezing the bottom for more taxes would do for society but to drive more into poverty to satisfy people pushing taxation myths.
Jinglejangle69 wrote: » Your link is from 2014. 6 years old.
satguy wrote: » Can't wait for the first FG - FF cabinet meeting,, just wait till FF see the type of things FG want to push to the top of the list.A number of TDs have raised the question of new allowances to allow them to purchase office equipment while they work from home during the Covid-19 outbreak.https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tds-seek-allowance-for-working-from-home-994059.html I give it 3 months before it falls apart, and we have to have a GE.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » https://kfmradio.com/news/15042020-1018/listen-social-democrats-not-ruling-outjoining-coalition SDs now surprisingly looking like the best bet to be the third wheel on this contraption. Although I guess Shortall and Murphy are probably thinming this is their last shot at a big job...
markodaly wrote: » Its just a random copy paste job and passed off as 'facts' to try an bolster an argument. So, lets get to brass tax here.https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/what-is-the-truth-about-paying-tax-in-ireland-1.4101097 2nd most progressive country for income tax in the OECD. 2nd lowest effective tax rates for those on lower incomes.https://www.datawrapper.de/_/V55bv/ In terms of the overall tax take.https://taxinstitute.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/The-Budget-Book-2017.pdf
According to the analysis, in 2015 the top 10% earn one-third of all income (36 per cent).
The median gross income is €27,898 in 2015. The income threshold for the top 0.1% is €618,296 in the same year
The research flies in the face of many other findings. Earlier this month, the ESRI reversed previous findings to conclude in a report by John FitzGerald on income distribution that the brunt of the budgetary adjustments have been borne by middle-income earners. Dr FitzGerald's findings note that welfare payments have been protected and high earners have been wiped out, leaving the tax burden to be shifted to Middle Ireland. "This means that somebody else has got to pay and in this case it was those in the middle-income range," Prof FitzGerald concludes.
This hits the poor harder because they pay the same tax for a bottle of wine or packet of cigarettes as their middle class counterparts, the Nevin Institute says
The Nevin Institute does not question the contribution from the richest people in the country but believes that the middle class is not paying its fair share.
smurgen wrote: » We've some of the lowest disposable income in the OECD.
"there is a considerable gap between the richest and poorest – the top 20% of the population earn almost five times as much as the bottom 20%."http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/ireland/
In general, Irish people are more satisfied with their lives than the OECD average. When asked to rate their general satisfaction with life on a scale from 0 to 10, Irish people gave it a 7.0 grade on average, higher than the OECD average of 6.5.
McMurphy wrote: » https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1250309582884229120?s=19
markodaly wrote: » I know it makes great news, in times like this, but has there been any indication that any FG TD's were asking for this?
efanton wrote: » The top 0.1 percent are earning over €745,580, ten times more than the €76,296 of the lowest paid in this top 10%. Now what does that tell you? Well it tells me that we have some horrendously rich people in this country. Would you hazard a guess as to the total earnings of this 10%?
Clearly shows the wage disparity in this country.
You do understand what the difference is between Average (mean) and median is? The "mean" is the "average" you're used to, where you add up all the numbers and then divide by the total number of people. The "median" is the "middle" value in the list of numbers.
The report you use as evidence suggests that the lower half of that table earned €27,898 or less.
Given that so many people are earning significantly less than the average industrial wage do you expect them to be paying more tax? In fact it is highly likely that many of these do not even reach the threshold to start paying income tax (about €16k)
If your argument is that the lower half of income earners should be paying more tax, I totally agree with you. In order for that to happen they would have to earn significantly more. The wage disparity in this country is atrocious. Its why average figures, or using percentages, simply does not give a clear picture of what is happening in this country.
McMurphy wrote: » Don't see any indication in the article from the tweet Mark, which played a huge part in me not suggesting that they had.
markodaly wrote: » OK, so why post it in this thread so, which has to do with FG? Is it the case of everything that is now wrong in Ireland gets posted here, like a honeypot for cranks and malcontents?
satguy wrote: » Who else might do this,, lets see. The SD's ..Róisín Shortall and Catherine Murphy ,, Not in a million years. SF.. Defo Not ,, are ya mad ? Richard Boyd Barrett and the PBP gang, again, are ya mad,,Not in a million years. Gene Pool FF IND,, accidental landlords and shop owners,, No way FF,, so long in opposition, they just want to be at the table,, so no way its them. LP,, licking wounds and keeping their head down. So here we are. FG and the Gene Pool IND,, sure who else would it be ???
He spent €250,000 in his time as Ceann Comhairle and €550,000 in his time as Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism.[1] His wife Kate-Ann also enjoyed many of the expenses.[1] Tabloid newspapers referred to the politician with titles such as "Johnny Cash
President Michael D Higgins spent more than €1.7m on food, beverages, hospitality, and entertainment during his first term in office, newly published figures reveal. Áras an Uachtaráin has published a report which details, for the first time, how an annual €317,000 discretionary allowance was spent during President Higgins’ first term in office. Mr Higgins came under pressure during the recent presidential campaign to make his expenses public and the allowance was dubbed a “slush fund” by Fianna Fáil TD Marc McSharry when the Public Accounts Committee examined presidential spending earlier this year.
McMurphy wrote: » A poster posted about apparently some TDs requesting extra moolah for working from home, I posted a tweet that was related to that post. Rocket science it is not.
markodaly wrote: » You should get a job with the Washington Post, with that cutting edge journalistic investigation Vigor of yours. Stones, glass houses and all that.
markodaly wrote: » Grand, this is the honeypot thread for cranks and malcontents... Glad we cleared it up.
McMurphy wrote: » 2 questions please mark. Have you taken it upon yourself to police the thread, and set the tone as to what can and cannot be posted, ie I was unaware other posters could now not post stuff in the thread if it was not specifically FG related. Second question, do you think if I bothered my barney searching your posts in this thread, I might perhaps find a few posts non fg related, in actual fact, they might be SF related, and if you did post such things would that then make you a malcontent crank encircling a honeypot? Think before you post.
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