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Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

political analyst

I'm aware that the new LC timetable will be published this June - public health permitting.

Regarding the usual schedule, why doesn't the State Exams Commission have the exams of both papers each in English, Irish and Maths in the Leaving and Junior Cert exams take place on the first 3 days of the exam period so that students will have the exams in the main subjects over with by the end of Day 3?

After all, the sooner the exams are over and done with, the better - right?!

MOD NOTE I'm setting up this thread as the one stop shop for all discusion about the state exams, preparing for these exams and the format this may take. Discussion can also take place about Mat leave contracts and factual information regarding these.
There will be a warning for anyone who:
a) moans about teachers holidays
b) moans about teachers pay
c) moans for the sake of moaning
D) this is NOT a discussion about school closures, that thread ran its course and this is not a replacement.
Usual forum rules also apply.

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TheDriver

2 weeks is tight. A lot could be done in tandem but a good few of the above requires a teacher to be seconded. There's a lot of fantasy.....

r93kaey5p2izun

LCA Orals and LCA practical performance exams in Hair&Beauty, Ag/Hort, HCT, Office Admin, Leisure.

Aso, a lot of 5th Year LCAs do Irish and/or MFL as a single year course and sit the exam at the end of 5th Year. Are they to come in in July too?

And what about 5th Year LCA tasks? Would they just be pushed out to the next session?

km79

TheDriver wrote: »

2 weeks is tight. A lot could be done in tandem but a good few of the above requires a teacher to be seconded. There's a lot of fantasy.....

It’s just unworkable
All of it
But focusing on just this aspect of it

It is inequitable
The “practical “ aspect of Irish and the foreign languages had 100% of marks awarded
Music the same

I am actually despairing at the compete and utter shambles of a “plan” the Dept/Minister have come up with
Who exactly is advising them/him
Depressing and scary

Can’t wait to see what happens if things continue to go pear shaped and July/Aug is a non runner

Remote practicals over Zoom maybe

TheDriver

I wonder do unions know this is all a non runner and will probably be just written exams hence why there is little discussion.

r93kaey5p2izun

Also LCA Engineering and Graphics&Construction briefs need to be completed. This is not mentioned at all in the DES statement.

km79

TheDriver wrote: »

I wonder do unions know this is all a non runner and will probably be just written exams hence why there is little discussion.

I wonder how much of it is just put out there as “bargaining chips “ so the union can be seen to get some “wins”
Call me a sceptic but ........
I think what may happen is
Practicals go
JC goes
June 15- July 15 “communication time “ goes
All to be replaced by
4 weeks of “classroom tuition “ for the month of July

All dependent on the health of the nation of course ......

Millem

I can’t even see them having enough superintendents to supervise all these exams especially in Dublin where they are generally short.
Also having no childcare will only add to the shortage.

Msbookeeper

Hi all, I'm due to finish my maternity leave at the end of May, any one have guidance about teachers in that situation? Will I be taking over from my sub for the summer? Or return in September?

History Queen

Hi, I don't have any specific information but I would imagine that you are taking over as would be the norm at any other time of year. Your sub will be going off payroll.

rainbowtrout

If you're finished your maternity leave in May, then you are back on the payroll and available for work.

rainbowtrout

CWF wrote: »

LC Engineering Project deadline was March 6th so tools are down there. You can add the JC Metalwork practical to be done in that two week time frame

Junior Certs aren't coming back in the summer.

CWF

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Junior Certs aren't coming back in the summer.

When are they supposed to do their practicals, September?

rainbowtrout

deiseindublin wrote: »

I'm thinking since Friday about how implausible it is for schools to have all assessments and practicals done in a 2 week block.

That isn't what was proposed. It was proposed that practical exams take place as part of the main exam timetable in August, so Art, Engineering, Construction, Ag Science would fit in there. My guess is that because there is always a two week window to complete these practicals in May, that similar would happen in August. So a school's construction practical would take place on the day that no construction student has a particular subject, e.g. Home Economics, given that we are led to believe that there will be only one written exam per day.

That would work, the biggest issue there would be the need for practical examiners to assess around the country, as they wouldn't be available to supervise exams. I presume this is why they want the examiners who usually supervise JC to be used.

mirrorwall14

The junior cycle continuous assessment list must be mental too

3rd years: assessment tasks for English, Science, Business Studies, Modern Foreign Languages and Irish was March 23rd. May not be completed. Project work for Metalwork, Technology, Materials Technology, Religion and Art. Metal work practicals

So they come back to do the official exams (albeit marked by us) and all of this.....

There will be knock on effects to second year too....

2nd years: English, Science, Business Studies, Modern Foreign Languages, Visual Art, Maths, Music, History, Geography, Home Economics. CBA1 deadlines were in May. Do they go in that September too?

awny

I’d say keep an eye on developments. I’d imagine that it will be negotiated with the department re paying subs to work during the summer. Teachers in parental leave, maternity leave, sick leave etc are all in the same boat.

To be honest, it would be very disruptive for pupils to have a new teacher for 2 weeks.

rainbowtrout

CWF wrote: »

When are they supposed to do their practicals, September?

I don't know, this is a thread about LC Assessments and we haven't been given any detail about JC assessments only that anything related to JC will be done in September, so no point discussing how JC assessment would be done in the middle of July when they are not being done in July.

kippy

awny wrote: »

I’d say keep an eye on developments. I’d imagine that it will be negotiated with the department re paying subs to work during the summer. Teachers in parental leave, maternity leave, sick leave etc are all in the same boat.

To be honest, it would be very disruptive for pupils to have a new teacher for 2 weeks.

Very disruptive? Relative to what's going on at the moment it's not gonna effect them and sure in normal times isn't this a regular enough occurance?

sullivlo

I would contact the principal and ask.

A friend of mine was covering a maternity contract last year and it also ended in May and the school were in a position to pay her for the month and the returning teacher took the non-academic classes back.

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

It’s just unworkable
All of it
But focusing on just this aspect of it

It is inequitable
The “practical “ aspect of Irish and the foreign languages had 100% of marks awarded
Music the same

I am actually despairing at the compete and utter shambles of a “plan” the Dept/Minister have come up with
Who exactly is advising them/him
Depressing and scary

Can’t wait to see what happens if things continue to go pear shaped and July/Aug is a non runner

Remote practicals over Zoom maybe

Tbh I think this is a court case waiting to happen and I do not see why the minister has taken this stance. Music and Home ec get 100%. But just because I picked technology I had to do an extra exam on top of my subjects on top of all the stress of moving the leaving cert. this is fundamentally unfair and I underperformed as a result....

Millem

OP if you want to be on payroll you will need to come in or doing whatever we are asked to do.

If what is being proposed goes ahead.....we will all be going in to supervise as students will be divided into smaller groups. I don’t teach 6th years. I teach an option subject so the class could be divided up to OL and HL etc. Or I could take some AEN students and do extra work with them....even exam prep/timing etc in general.

I have been taking parental leave this year (term time) and it still stands....so not getting paid when on parental leave and not working on parental leave days.

We have a few teachers coming back after Easter from maternity leave....they will be taking over online teaching.

CWF

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That isn't what was proposed. It was proposed that practical exams take place as part of the main exam timetable in August, so Art, Engineering, Construction, Ag Science would fit in there. My guess is that because there is always a two week window to complete these practicals in May, that similar would happen in August. So a school's construction practical would take place on the day that no construction student has a particular subject, e.g. Home Economics, given that we are led to believe that there will be only one written exam per day.

That would work, the biggest issue there would be the need for practical examiners to assess around the country, as they wouldn't be available to supervise exams. I presume this is why they want the examiners who usually supervise JC to be used.

It was my understanding that the LC Practicals would take place in that two week period

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Tbh I think this is a court case waiting to happen and I do not see why the minister has taken this stance. Music and Home ec get 100%. But just because I picked technology I had to do an extra exam on top of my subjects on top of all the stress of moving the leaving cert. this is fundamentally unfair and I underperformed as a result....

Ya I'm actually surprised that they are currently making provision for the practicals on that basis. I was expecting all practicals to be cancelled and awarded the marks on Friday in the announcement. It would have levelled the playing field to a large extent and removed a massive headache in getting all practical work, booklets and assessments done. Might happen yet.

rainbowtrout

CWF wrote: »

It was my understanding that the LC Practicals would take place in that two week period

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/EN-EX-59606118.pdf

Practical tests in Art, Engineering and Construction studies due to commence on 27th April and
the oral and practical performance tests in the Leaving Certificate Applied programme due to
take place in May, will now be rescheduled for the July/August period

History Queen

kippy wrote: »

Very disruptive? Relative to what's going on at the moment it's not gonna effect them and sure in normal times isn't this a regular enough occurance?

That's what I'm thinking... I mean I'm due to go on Maternity leave the end of July. Regardless of what is being asked of us a sub will have to be brought in for me for any teaching days after I start leave. Not ideal obviously but can't be helped.

ascophyllum

My thoughts on this:

Every solution to the current situation has problems. In my opinion, predicted grades brings fewer problems than the other options.

In mid-March when we closed up, it seemed quite possible that we'd be open by May. Now that seems unthinkable. There's a good chance that as we approach the end of June, opening in July will similarly seem unthinkable and unattractive. If that is the case, the Dept/State Exams will have to resort to predictive grades. Except now, schools are closed, it will have been almost 4 months since we have seen our students, some contracts will have ended, and there is less time to handle appeals and organise exams for those who cannot access predicted grades (students studying a subject e.g. a language, outside of a class).

If opening in July is feasible there are many families of students who may not be keen to send their teenager into a group environment if there are older/immunocompromised people at home. If their parents are nurses/doctors, it may not be wise to send in their students to a busy school, given the amount of infection in HCWs.

There are also many teachers, especially 50+ who would be nervous to approach groups of teenagers so soon.

I would guess the median age of exam superintendents is 50+, given what I've seen in the last few years (retired teachers who get the contract each year). I doubt many will see spending 5/6 hours a day with a group in a room as being worth the money. I apply (and don't get it) every single year, I could do with the money, but not a chance will I sign up for sitting in a confined space with groups of people for days on end this summer. They will also need more superintendents this summer for extra centres(could use the JC ones I guess).

Regular colds and coughs haven't gone away, if a student has even the slightest of symptoms they cannot show for July school or exams. What then? Even if they have a negative test result, students will not sit in a room for 3 hours with a person coughing.

Giving over a chunk of the new school year to 15 year olds attempting to answer exam questions on material they haven't studied since May (or March!) is a whole other post! The JCT seem to be adamant assessment tasks will also have to be completed. Non-stop exams until November?

There are problems with predicted grades, however I think there are fewer than with delayed exams. I would be happy to give predicted grades; I have enough assessment results on paper from the last year to back up any grades I give out. A clear set of guidelines that explicitly prohibits canvassing (phonecalls from parents demanding a H1), an appeal process that allows the students to sit a paper if they feel they have been wronged (very few students = easier to accomodate) and a lot less stress for thousands of people.

Msbookeeper

Thanks everyone for the input, my sub is local to the area of the school so hopefully he can carry on without any hassle.

History Queen

Msbookeeper wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the input, my sub is local to the area of the school so hopefully he can carry on without any hassle.

Would you be applying for unpaid leave then? Again I've only my own experience to compare to but unless you're on approved/unpaid leave surely a sub won't be paid to teach your classes?

deiseindublin

I presume that you will be taking over class contact after 1st June with online teaching, and in school for some of July, as per agreement to be ironed out for all teachers on the payroll.

awny

History Queen wrote: »

Would you be applying for unpaid leave then? Again I've only my own experience to compare to but unless you're on approved/unpaid leave surely a sub won't be paid to teach your classes?

My understanding is that this cannot be imposed on teachers so it’ll be voluntary. Do you think teachers with underlying health conditions or in other at risk groups should be docked pay or have to use sick leave/unpaid leave to be excused from something which involves working on their annual leave?

Millem

awny wrote: »

My understanding is that this cannot be imposed on teachers so it’ll be voluntary. Do you think teachers with underlying health conditions or in other at risk groups should be docked pay or have to use sick leave/unpaid leave to be excused from something which involves working on their annual leave?

It is not annual leave.....they are school closures.