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FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

satguy

It seems FG will be very happy to just sit on their hands for 5 years. Would FG voters be happy with this, as it means all those FG votes mean nothing, and do nothing.

Having been in power for 9 years, they did nothing, people have no homes, people still on trollies.

FG may have given some of their rich buddies some tax breaks.

But other than that, they did what FG do best, are their poor hands not numb by now.

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efanton

Idbatterim wrote: »

I nearly have to credit varadkar for writing off the independents, a great start. What will they want in exchange? A buy off of a billion euro or two,,,

That is their only reason for being. Never the national interest only the local interest.

If there is to be a new election the Independents will be utterly decimated. FG might get a small bounce due to their perceived handling of the virus crisis but it will not be close to being near enough to comfortably form a government without having either SF or FF on board.

Martin has made a complete balls of it, I doubt he will be leader of FF if a new election will be called once its safe to do so. FF will rightly move him to the sidelines. Will that be enough for them to recover some of their vote? Personally I dont think so.

Now that their is a third party in the game capable of forming a government, it will be interesting to see what happens if an election is called. Will people jump at the option of supporting SF or the smaller parties in the hopes of a government that does not included FF or FG, or will they opt to ensure that FF or FG get enough votes to keep SF out?

Idbatterim

I nearly have to credit varadkar for writing off the independents, a great start. What will they want in exchange? A buy off of a billion euro or two,,,

efanton

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minority-government-is-last-thing-the-country-needs-varadkar-993702.html

Looks like we are looking at a new election or Unity government and Leo is flying his kite good and early to signal this.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has ruled out a minority government if Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil cannot attract a third party to form a coalition.

It appears he is ruling out the involvement of Independents to make up the numbers. With the SD's Labour and the Green's showing no interest whatsoever does he really think they will jump on board once they have read a document full of empty promises.

It is understood that the document features a number of enticements for those parties, including state involvement in home-building activities, childcare improvements and an overhaul of the country’s childcare system.

One source said that there may be “something for everyone” in the agreement, with the aim of casting the net as wide as possible to find a partner.

How is FG and FF going to be able to fund these programs? They claimed SF couldn't do it, and that was when we had a surplus of 20 billion.
Now when we will definitely be in the red, they claim they will still be able to do it.

So what is it to be? A Unity government for a year or two or a new election? I cant see FF agreeing to FG continuing to remain solo in government until such time it is safe for a general election to take place that could be 6 months or more away.

efanton

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has ruled out a minority government if Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil cannot attract a third party to form a coalition.

It is understood that the document features a number of enticements for those parties, including state involvement in home-building activities, childcare improvements and an overhaul of the country’s childcare system.

One source said that there may be “something for everyone” in the agreement, with the aim of casting the net as wide as possible to find a partner.

How is FG and FF going to be able to fund these programs? They claimed SF couldn't do it, and that was when we had a surplus of 20 billion.
Now when we will definitely be in the red, now they claims they will still be able to do it.

So what is it to be? A Unity government for a few years or a new election? I cant see FF agreeing to FG continuing to remain solo in government until such time it is safe for a general election to take place that could be 6 months or more away.

Suckit

smurgen wrote: »

We don't tax the lower paid because we've the third highest proportion of the low pay workers in the OECD.Can't get blood from a stone. If we can get more people on a higher wage we can widen the tax base.

https://www.thejournal.ie/workers-in-ireland-on-low-pay-4764896-Aug2019/

He knows already, he is just trying to coerce other posts :rolleyes: - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113111893&postcount=3956

It was a couple of posts after Bass Reeves had told us how amazed he is by the stupidity of (some) people
and a few posts before markodaly told us there are idiots out there

It's not related to Bass Reeves post, but it is an insight as to how quickly people are willing to point out how stupid (some) people are when it comes to tax.

smurgen

Idbatterim wrote: »

Christy I would argue, FG already have idiotic tax policies in place, an insane marginal rate over a pittance, colossal number outside the tax net. A ridiculous higher level of vat. The economic idiocy, is already here and has been for decades!

the whole argument that moving to a more left based system, is bad, well put the idiotic system here in place, beside most countries, and it would already be deemed a leftist set up!

That's an extremely broad stroke you brush there.How about investment undertaking tax? What's your assessment of that?

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

There was a funeral in Derrybrien or somewhere that 200 Republicans went to. He could have been going there.

There was also the online Easter commemoration that Mary-Lou went to today.

Can you get Covid from online gatherings now? Lol.

smurgen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

All you have is this higher rate of tax every single day.

Its been proven time and time again Ireland is in the lower end scale for tax in the OECD.

Its tiresome.

You'll come back with they tax us at 52%.

Which is complete nonsense.

FG, FF, Renua, FG then SF for your vote is all ill ever remember from you.

We don't tax the lower paid because we've the third highest proportion of the low pay workers in the OECD.Can't get blood from a stone. If we can get more people on a higher wage we can widen the tax base.

https://www.thejournal.ie/workers-in-ireland-on-low-pay-4764896-Aug2019/

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

Christy I would argue, FG already have idiotic tax policies in place, an insane marginal rate over a pittance, colossal number outside the tax net. A ridiculous higher level of vat. The economic idiocy, is already here and has been for decades!

the whole argument that moving to a more left based system, is bad, well put the idiotic system here in place, beside most countries, and it would already be deemed a leftist set up!

All you have is this higher rate of tax every single day.

Its been proven time and time again Ireland is in the lower end scale for tax in the OECD.

Its tiresome.

You'll come back with they tax us at 52%.

Which is complete nonsense.

FG, FF, Renua, FG then SF for your vote is all ill ever remember from you.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

An essential trip my arse. Unless you are in the health care profession then I am calling you out on it.

The fact that you willfully broke lockdown rules and boasted about it here, says it all. A great Republican you are indeed.

There was a funeral in Derrybrien or somewhere that 200 Republicans went to. He could have been going there.

There was also the online Easter commemoration that Mary-Lou went to today.

christy c

Idbatterim wrote: »

the higher rate over 100k is interesting, other than those on that figure in health and many in private sector jobs earning it. I would totally support it, for the many people on it here, thievening a living, like in Rte and many non medical government staff and the bloody politicians!

look at the demands on the health service here and we have the bloody luas drivers pay agreement up in september, those at the top of the scale, earning early fifties now!!! They got their near 18% rise, all facilitated by spineless government here, when you know you will be better off striking, because irish government is so weak, they will do it! They need the fear of being worse off, no, let them do it and ensure they are worse off and they will think twice the next time...

So bring in a 60% marginal rate because there's a few you think dont deserve to be paid that much- would it not be better to reduce their pay?

You skipped over SF wanting to increase the welfare state, and their dumb pension age plan and then on to Luas drivers. You think SF are going to lay a finger on them?

Nitrogan

Are SF still going to cap medical professionals pay at 100k?

Idbatterim

christy c wrote: »

Oh yes, I agree, that's why I'd say best of a bad lot. What are SF going to do to bring people back in to the tax net? They actually want to reduce the tax base even further, see abolition of LPT for example.

Then the rubbish of increasing tax for people earning over €100k- not only is that volatile but it is putting another nail in the health service's coffin, given we need to attract people who can earn that much here.

Also you didn't mention the pension, are you happy with SF's "the demographics will look after themselves"? Burying their head in the sand while Pearse holds a nice sign at their manifesto launch.

Or them wanting to increase the welfare state?

the higher rate over 100k is interesting, other than those on that figure in health and many in private sector jobs earning it. I would totally support it, for the many people on it here, thievening a living, like in Rte and many non medical government staff and the bloody politicians!

look at the demands on the health service here and we have the bloody luas drivers pay agreement up in september, those at the top of the scale, earning early fifties now!!! They got their near 18% rise, all facilitated by spineless government here, when you know you will be better off striking, because irish government is so weak, they will do it! They need the fear of being worse off, no, let them do it and ensure they are worse off and they will think twice the next time...

christy c

Idbatterim wrote: »

the whole argument that moving to a more left based system, is bad, well put the idiotic system here in place, beside most countries, and it would already be deemed a leftist set up!

I missed this first time out, it's not really about left/right. Just stupid/less stupid as I have outlined.

I actually think we are quite left wing in Ireland. I would like to see a more right wing party emerge and would happily vote for them.

christy c

Idbatterim wrote: »

Christy I would argue, FG already have idiotic tax policies in place, an insane marginal rate over a pittance, colossal number outside the tax net. A ridiculous higher level of vat. The economic idiocy, is already here and has been for decades!

Oh yes, I agree, that's why I'd say best of a bad lot. What are SF going to do to bring people back in to the tax net? They actually want to reduce the tax base even further, see abolition of LPT for example.

Then the rubbish of increasing tax for people earning over €100k- not only is that volatile but it is putting another nail in the health service's coffin, given we need to attract people who can earn that much here.

Also you didn't mention the pension, are you happy with SF's "the demographics will look after themselves"? Burying their head in the sand while Pearse holds a nice sign at their manifesto launch.

Or them wanting to increase the welfare state?

Idbatterim

christy c wrote: »

Because of their brain dead tax policy, stupid pension proposals, cheerleading of Syriza, wanting to increase the welfare budget you so despise, etc.

I personally think that we are voting for best of a bad lot, regardless of who we vote for. Your or my individual criteria would lead to different outcomes, which is fair enough.

Christy I would argue, FG already have idiotic tax policies in place, an insane marginal rate over a pittance, colossal number outside the tax net. A ridiculous higher level of vat. The economic idiocy, is already here and has been for decades!

the whole argument that moving to a more left based system, is bad, well put the idiotic system here in place, beside most countries, and it would already be deemed a leftist set up!

christy c

Idbatterim wrote: »

why wouldnt you vote for Sf who might do something about housing?

Because of their brain dead tax policy, stupid pension proposals, cheerleading of Syriza, wanting to increase the welfare budget you so despise, etc.

I personally think that we are voting for best of a bad lot, regardless of who we vote for. Your or my individual criteria would lead to different outcomes, which is fair enough.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

You can think what you want, as much as it counts, which is not a lot.

If a government is formed with FF and FG and one other smaller party/ or Indo's, then once they have over 81 TD's, they have a mandate, as per the constitution.
Now you are either a Democrat and support Bunreacht na hEireann and recognise this as a mandate to govern, or you do not.

I respect and will respect anything that is constitutional. There is no compunction to see it as right or moral or advisable though.

Idbatterim

I have a few working mates, out of country last time, election took place, that will vote SF if there is another election, look bottom line, if FG totally support the massive welfare state and they do, and they want rip off housing. why wouldnt you vote for Sf who might do something about housing? what are FG going to do? do what they have before, give someone earning the marginal rate a E1 a week usc reduction? FO! and then rob you on housing?

you see when people here wonder, mostly FG why the support has imploded, a lot of people who voted for FG before, believed the lie about rewarding workers, they then hammer a lot of us on housing. Its really not that difficult to figure out, what is going on...

Edgware

McMurphy wrote: »

Yawn. Same shyte - different day.

Enjoy the view from the opposition benches

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think this government has a mandate...simple as that.

I think most would agree we have been through a huge societal upheaval here and any attempt to form a government off the back of that is simply wrong...and frankly (this is advice to FF and FG) ill-advised in the medium to long term.

I'm speaking as someone who thinks SF (the party I voted for) will have a bigger challenge to face and who would have to adopt policy that may be a challenge to them also.

My concern is about the political health of the country, not one party, as such.

You can think what you want, as much as it counts, which is not a lot.

If a government is formed with FF and FG and one other smaller party/ or Indo's, then once they have over 81 TD's, they have a mandate, as per the constitution.
Now you are either a Democrat and support Bunreacht na hEireann and recognise this as a mandate to govern, or you do not.

Then again, time and time again you have been exposed for your lies and your lack of liberal morals, which are anything but Democratic. Condoning murder, curtailing free speech and that sort of thing. In fact you are very VERY authoritarian underneath all the fake concern over the state of the nation.

So yea, health of the nation is not something you are concerned about.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

In summary:

Claim to be a democrat....
The slam the democratic outcome of the election when a government is created...

:D:D:pac::pac::pac:

Oh Francie, you should have a Netflix comedy show.

I don't think this government has a mandate...simple as that.

I think most would agree we have been through a huge societal upheaval here and any attempt to form a government off the back of that is simply wrong...and frankly (this is advice to FF and FG) ill-advised in the medium to long term.

I'm speaking as someone who thinks SF (the party I voted for) will have a bigger challenge to face and who would have to adopt policy that may be a challenge to them also.

My concern is about the political health of the country, not one party, as such.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Said it before, if it is a democracy we live in then another election is what we need. At whatever financial cost.

2 parties have now taken to try to sledgehammer a load of independents into a policy framework that is just another way of controlling the power. A 'policy framework' that seems to me to be a mixum bagsome of vague aspiration. As Louise O'Reilly pointed out on Twitter phrases like 'a willingness to achieve...' and 'a committment to aim...' are just getout clauses really for those intending to coalesce.

Call an election, get a definitive statement from the people, after an event never seen in our lifetimes and requiring a government with a firm mandate to get us back on the road to normality, is the proper way forward.

In summary:

Claim to be a democrat....
The slam the democratic outcome of the election when a government is created...

:D:D:pac::pac::pac:

Oh Francie, you should have a Netflix comedy show.

FrancieBrady

On another point it will be interesting to compare how Leo and Boris fare after this is over.
Given both have been lionised to the point where their recent past performances have been put to one side.

How long will the fresh gloss last?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody is losing the plot. Time to take a break.

Oh look, pot here is Kettle. Nice to meet you.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said in that post that it was an essential trip.

Mind your own business and stop trying to make the thread about me.

An essential trip my arse. Unless you are in the health care profession then I am calling you out on it.

The fact that you willfully broke lockdown rules and boasted about it here, says it all. A great Republican you are indeed.

FrancieBrady

Somebody is losing the plot. Time to take a break.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

Haven't even bothered reading the rest of the post, but what exactly is crazy tinfoil hat about any of the post?

If you feel any of it was inaccurate, let me know and we'll discuss.

Wild wild speculating about policies, one party eating another, SF being in 'prime' position even though they have literally vanished from the face of the earth apart from the odd few embarrassing tweets. Where the **** is your leader? Oh, right. Resting at home because she got a cough about a month ago...

Your wishful thinking makes me want to go out and buy a lottery ticket, because 90% of your speculation wont come through.

It is funny though. SF continue to play the game on twitter, the bots are here morning, noon and night.. meanwhile FG are running the country. Dem the facts.
It must be great to play DnD from the basement knowing you can always do over and start again when you lose. :pac:

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What exactly is your 'point'

You broke lockdown rules because your business is an essential one, but you wont tell us what that is?
Is that your point?

I said in that post that it was an essential trip.

Mind your own business and stop trying to make the thread about me.

FrancieBrady

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Apart from one comment Martin has been consistent in his feeling for SF.

FG and SF are far apart, getting an acceptable program to both is a pipedream.

I agree with SF not being desperate (but they do like to talk about "exclusion" on social media. I don't think they actually want to be near government but are playing to the gallery a bit, preparing the narrative for opposition.

One comment? Like taking the high moral ground for the entire election campaign and then when he saw a chance...boom...out the window goes the faux 'repugnance'?

Then does the same after spending the entire campaign saying he won't coalesce with FG? Then..opportunity knocks...off we go into a huddle? Same with FG. Talk the talk but if the sleeveen way presents itself they go for it, knowing people will just go...'that's what politicians are like' and on we go.

You've gotten to used too sleeveen politics I'm afraid.