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Rights on Notice of Redeployment in Public Sector

Connacht15

If a public sector worker has received a notice of redeployment during the current Covid 19 crisis, what rights do they have especially if -

The new department is completely unsuitable.
The new location is not reachable within reason.

Thanks for your answers in advance.

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AulWan

noodler wrote: »

It's a little depressing to see the attitude of some on here when over half a million people have lost their jobs in the last month and everyone else is pulling together.

The idea that you are as busy at the monent as you would be in work is stretching it.

The idea of keeping Flexi when ppl could log on at 8 and then log out at 7, without any supervision or verification of the actual work requirement, potentially netting them a further 1.5 days of AL a month, is absolutely ridiculous.

I know I've had to adjust to answer important queries (outside of the 9-5 or not).

People across the system are not as busy as usual and now cribbing because they won't be able to claim unverified OT (albeit in the form of.time in lieu) leaves a terrible taste.

Do you know whats depressing? The way the people like you immediately turn on the public service when times are tough.

Noodler, you know nothing of my current work situation. I am currently covering for several staff members in my section who do not have remote access or who can't work regular core time hours at the moment due to their childminding responsibilities.

I have, in fact, genuinely worked up extra hours in the last four weeks, in order to keep things ticking over. My working hours can be verified as I am back and forth with my supervisor and other colleagues during the day, constantly. There are ways of tracking work hours through online activity and the portal that allows us to access work systems. It times out after 20 minutes of inactivity. I work in a fully paperless office - everything we can do at our desks, can be done electronically. Two people in my office have also been selected for redeployment, and their work will have to be covered. I worked one day a week at home before this crisis, so am well into the way of it.

As of this coming Tuesday, I will strictly work my required hours. If there is anything not done in that time, it can wait to the next day. And I make no apologies for that. I'm one of those whose pay was not restored after the last round of austerity, and I guess we'll be targetted again to pay for this mess, the way we paid for the last one.

So maybe think before you assume people are not busy because they are at home.

noodler

beauf wrote: »

How much can people abuse it?

There are limits to how much Flexi time you can build up. Over a month it's probably a day or two. And you probably can't carry much of it forward. So even when the lock down ends there will not be a massive backlog of Flexi leave to be taken.

I assume. Maybe there's some other angle I'm missing.

An automatic 1.5 day extra AL for every single 4 week period this goes on.

This would be on too of the fact, and few will admit it, but plenty are already on de facto AL at the moment given a decreased workload or an inability to work at home (leaving aside any scoving that might be ongoing).

Bear in mind in other organizations, people are being asked to use AL during this period, having PS workers actually earn it because Flexi can't be policed would be serious moral hazard.

beauf

How much can people abuse it?

There are limits to how much Flexi time you can build up. Over a month it's probably a day or two. And you probably can't carry much of it forward. So even when the lock down ends there will not be a massive backlog of Flexi leave to be taken.

I assume. Maybe there's some other angle I'm missing.

noodler

beauf wrote: »

A lot of people aren't busy true. But it depends on where you work. I know quite a few people public and private who are the busiest they've ever been. They are having to put in a lot of extra hours.

But there's more to it than that. Some people might not be able to work as much during the middle of the day due to having small kids etc. They will probably Make up this time in the evenings or at the weekend. The flexitime systems in place probably can't accommodate that anyway.

So there are practical considerations also.

In the example you've outlined, where somebody is at home with kids, yeah they can work whenever they want.

It's clear enough this has been done to stop people claiming spurious flexi.

beauf

noodler wrote: »

...The idea that you are as busy at the monent as you would be in work is stretching it....

A lot of people aren't busy true. But it depends on where you work. I know quite a few people public and private who are the busiest they've ever been. They are having to put in a lot of extra hours.

But there's more to it than that. Some people might not be able to work as much during the middle of the day due to having small kids etc. They will probably Make up this time in the evenings or at the weekend. The flexitime systems in place probably can't accommodate that anyway.

So there are practical considerations also.

beauf

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The issues weren’t local, they were widespread across the public sector and across the country.

What issues? I'm not talking about the current crisis but about unions in general.

turbodiesel

Totally agree with Flexi being suspended for the moment, one exception is that is you previously have a pattern of building/working flexi due to workload and it hasn't changed. Otherwise it's open to abuse by a minority who would feck it up for everyone else.

Nigel Fairservice

august12 wrote: »

Just for clarification, I for one am clocking my normal day while working from home, it's hard to fathom how anyone would/could clock additional time in order to accrue additional flexi leave, I also go to work a couple of days each week, there is a roster system in place to adhere to social distancing. Anyone with a conscience would not be accruing additional leave now.

I don't have a problem with flexi being put on hold either. It's not like people have things to do or places to go right now to justify building it up anyway. Not having to travel to work is giving me back 30 minutes a day anyway...not that I even need it with the abundance of time.

august12

noodler wrote: »

It's a little depressing to see the attitude of some on here when over half a million people have lost their jobs in the last month and everyone else is pulling together.

The idea that you are as busy at the monent as you would be in work is stretching it.

I know I've had to adjust to answer important queries (outside of the 9-5 or not).

The idea of keeping Flexi when ppl could log on at 8 and then log out at 7, without any supervision or verification of the actual work requirement, potentially netting them a further 1.5 days of AL a month, is absolutely ridiculous.

People across the system are not as busy as usual and now cribbing because they won't be able to claim unverified OT (albeit in the form of.time in lieu) leaves a terrible taste.

Just for clarification, I for one am clocking my normal day while working from home, it's hard to fathom how anyone would/could clock additional time in order to accrue additional flexi leave, I also go to work a couple of days each week, there is a roster system in place to adhere to social distancing. Anyone with a conscience would not be accruing additional leave now.

FluffPiece

That's why some local authorities were having people apply a business absence to cover a day worked at home. No flexi time could be earned or lost with that kind of absence applied to their TMS.

It makes sense that the scheme has been suspended and there was always a part of the scheme that said it could be suspended depending on the departmental issues. I don't think anyone is going to be expecting employees to start working 10 hour days now that it has been suspended but you can be sure there will be a fair few disgruntled if they lose just 1 minute of time due to the suspension.

noodler

It's a little depressing to see the attitude of some on here when over half a million people have lost their jobs in the last month and everyone else is pulling together.

AulWan wrote: »

I won't work up extra hours while flexi time is suspended. I'll just do my required number of hours + lunch.

The idea that you are as busy at the monent as you would be in work is stretching it.

I know I've had to adjust to answer important queries (outside of the 9-5 or not).

The idea of keeping Flexi when ppl could log on at 8 and then log out at 7, without any supervision or verification of the actual work requirement, potentially netting them a further 1.5 days of AL a month, is absolutely ridiculous.

People across the system are not as busy as usual and now cribbing because they won't be able to claim unverified OT (albeit in the form of.time in lieu) leaves a terrible taste.

Reputable Rog

beauf wrote: »

Unions tend to represent not their branch but the overall membership. So if you have a local issue but it's not typical of the larger membership your issues will be have a low priority and you might find no local issues ever get attention or addressed. Small fish in a big sea etc.

But in a national crisis, a humanitarian crisis, its all hands to the wheel.

But if you look at the bigger picture. The public sector and the Unions didn't entirely restore the reductions conceded for austerity. There's now been a massive hole blown through public finances. Austerity 2 will be far more severe and the Unions are probably keeping their powder dry for that. Though they'll probably not put up to much of resistance to that either.

The issues weren’t local, they were widespread across the public sector and across the country.

beauf

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Their remit is to represent members ....

Unions tend to represent not their branch but the overall membership. So if you have a local issue but it's not typical of the larger membership your issues will be have a low priority and you might find no local issues ever get attention or addressed. Small fish in a big sea etc.

But in a national crisis, a humanitarian crisis, its all hands to the wheel.

But if you look at the bigger picture. The public sector and the Unions didn't entirely restore the reductions conceded for austerity. There's now been a massive hole blown through public finances. Austerity 2 will be far more severe and the Unions are probably keeping their powder dry for that. Though they'll probably not put up to much of resistance to that either.

Reputable Rog

jadie wrote: »

I meant that public opinion would go against them if they did any anything

Their remit is to represent members not dance to public opinion.
Some of the dangers many in the public service have been exposed to in recent weeks are shocking.
It was rule for the public and another for public servants.
As a local rep I can see the Unions emerging very damaged from this crisis.

jadie

I meant that public opinion would go against them if they did any anything

Reputable Rog

jadie wrote: »

I got the same email last Thursday. Worried about the contact tracing, only seems to be two places doing it remotely. I’ve also childcare issues. The unions have washed their hands of it understandably.

Nothing understandable about it. The Unions have been deplorable.

jadie

Cork

kravmaga

jadie wrote: »

I got the same email last Thursday. Worried about the contact tracing, only seems to be two places doing it remotely. I’ve also childcare issues. The unions have washed their hands of it understandably.

What part of Ireland are you located?

kravmaga

billyhead wrote: »

Are they just redeploying Clerical Officers or is it all grades?

All Grades

jadie

In our place it’s lower grades

Addle

All grades

billyhead

Are they just redeploying Clerical Officers or is it all grades?

jadie

I got the same email last Thursday. Worried about the contact tracing, only seems to be two places doing it remotely. I’ve also childcare issues. The unions have washed their hands of it understandably.

kravmaga

Okay so just wait now, PAS may or may not select you for re-assignment.

Ive had an email back last Thursday and await further contact from the departmental Operations Manager in the HSE.

Ive been selected to go to the HSE.

Connacht15

kravmaga wrote: »

Hi OP, did you complete the online form? Pas will contact you via email if you have been selected for Temporary assignment

I know that the 2 areas where they badly need staff is the HSE and DSP.

HSE more than likely need Admin for contact tracing or data input, telephone calls etc.

If you have issues with a temporary assignment why dont you consult your Union rep for further clarification.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/covid19/temporary-assignment

I have completed the online form as I was directed to do so by my EO.

Reputable Rog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.

Would you ever get a grip. People develop conditions that don’t hinder their current jobs. How could they have predicted a global pandemic?
Also when you do your medical or fill out the questionnaire it’s generally role specific.

Nigel Fairservice

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.

Someone having bronchitis wouldn't necessarily mean they have inadequate health to carry out the job. Bronchitis can be well managed in normal times and generally wouldn't be serious enough to keep a young and relatvely fit person out of work. However, seeing as Covid 19 can result in pneumonia I can well understand why someone with bronchitis would be apprehensive about going to work on public transport. I'm not sure anyone could have had a discussion with their manager before March about what their options would be in a global pandemic.

kravmaga

Connacht15 wrote: »

If a public sector worker has received a notice of redeployment during the current Covid 19 crisis, what rights do they have especially if -

The new department is completely unsuitable.
The new location is not reachable within reason.

Thanks for your answers in advance.

Hi OP, did you complete the online form? Pas will contact you via email if you have been selected for Temporary assignment

I know that the 2 areas where they badly need staff is the HSE and DSP.

HSE more than likely need Admin for contact tracing or data input, telephone calls etc. If your living on the Northside of Dublin you may be placed at the Nursing building this is for staff of the HSE Call centre hub.

On the Glasnevin Campus, Residences,the Nursing building (for Call Centre and HSE Clinical Hub staff and volunteers only) and the Estates Office on the Glasnevin campus will remain open.

If you have issues with a temporary assignment why dont you consult your Union rep for further clarification.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/covid19/temporary-assignment

An Ri rua

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.

That is NOT the guidance being given to POs, head of branches/units in the current crisis. In fact, the employer had a clear duty of care to canvass their workforce to see who had a health risk Vis a Viz this infectious disease. As a result, a number of genuine parties, in addition to a number of seasoned 'players' withdrew from the chessboard.

A party with an autoimmune disorder or HIV or cancer etc etc that did not have need to notify their line manager before now HAS been requested to do so as part of the Civil Service's duty of care as an employer. Bronchitis may not qualify but that is the domain of the poster's GP, not the employer and certainly not a self-ordained authority on Boards.

The scenario that you are painting here is incorrect. Can you indicate please which circular you are misinterpreting?

Mrs OBumble

Technocentral wrote: »

No problem doing my bit, I suffer from bronchitis and would be worried about that.

One of the conditions of getting a job in the public service is that you have adequate health to carry out the job.

If, since appointment, you have a developed chronic health condition which means you don't have good enough health anymore, then should have discussed options with your manager before now.