Jjameson wrote: » With excellent facilities and a bit of help at key periods maybe not but for most of us having to get by with baler twine and me myself and Irene the whole year 10 years of this ****e is making an old men of a young ones. A 40 hour week is considered a full time job for most of the population.
Hard Knocks wrote: » It’s not so simple The number of suckler herd is reducing and should level at 500-600,000 by 2022 Our Dairy herd has increased from 800,000 to 1.3m On top of this to control the market there is allot of beef imported and processed here
mf240 wrote: » Lads won't like this but in 2009 I had fifteen sucklers alongside the dairy cows. I didn't put them in calf that year and took them to the factory. Never sorry
Albert Johnson wrote: » I used to follow the mantra of expansion and efficiency when I first started out at sucklers. No matter what went wrong it was always because I hadn't worked hard enough or smart enough and there was always room for improvement and further investment. I could never catch up to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow promised by the likes of the state advisors, the Journal ect. It took me years to realize most of what I was being sold was no more than a pipe dream. I'm not saying that any industry can stagnate and there's always an opportunity to refine and improve. However there has to be a fair reward for effort expended and it has never been present in the broader beef game in my lifetime. There's a line from a Slim Dusty song about the demise of the Australian small farmer that "You can work all day for no return at all", this echoes the situation many Irish beef farmer's are in currently imo. The processors continually change the rules of the game mid play and all your hard work can be wiped out with a single change in specification. I'm by no means a model farmer but I do believe I should receive fair reward for an in demand product that I produce to the best of my abilities. The current way of working seems to enable the processors to screw as much out of me as possible while still allowing me to continue trading. Mean while the power's that be create countless additional jobs off the back of my industry while refusing to face the elephant in the room, namely the complete lack of profitability for those not lucky enough to be any thing apart from a beef farmer. I have no doubt beef farming is only a disease and indeed a burden both financially and mentally to a lot of those involved if the truth was known. I'd love to be able to proffer a solution to any of the problems above but there doesn't seem to be any appetite to change the status quo as it works for almost everyone apart from the beef producer. It baffles me that an industry could accept it's own demise with so little resistance over the year's but I suppose it's a real life death by 1,000 cuts. As whether there's sufficient time or interest to reverse this fate I remain hopeful but not that optimistic.
Bass Reeves wrote: » Two things look a the losses on the 2-3 demonstration farms and the workload involved. If you have children make sure they are educsted, and do a good college course ( there is a lot of rubbish ones)or a trade. Finally as a lot of farmers wl not stand together it time to look after oneself for a while. Im a while a lot of lads will realize that it's like as Seamus Mallon said of the GF agreement ''its Sunningdale for slow learner's''
Grueller wrote: » Couldn't agree more re the kids. If they have a gra for it they will come back to it in some way. If not so be it.
Albert Johnson wrote: » The demonstration farms have always been a source of wonder for me and have served as more of a warning than an encouragement imo. I've always liked what I've done both in and out of farming and I'm determined/thick enough to find a means of continuing to do what I enjoy. However it is a constant battle and not something I'd encourage anyone to do without total commitment. Our industry seems to be blessed with slow learner's but even they seem to be thinning out in recent years. I do believe that a lot of businesses based on beef production are shooting themselves in the foot by let there customer base whither away before there eye's.
Base price wrote: » TBH I reckon the demise of the beef industry it's more down to cheaper alternatives like chicken and pork which is what most households buy as their main protein source. I'm just back from the butchers after paying €28 for a leg of lamb. I could have bought a rolled boned out stuffed breast of turkey for €16 which would have yielded more meat.
Jjameson wrote: » Base or all in? For backend?
Jjameson wrote: » A procurement manager for Abp gave 2.20 A kg for nice but very well done 13 month stores 500ish kg today I hear just the same. 2.50 a kg for hairier lads.
Neddyusa wrote: » There are no beef farmers out there making €200/acre profit. Not mathematically possible with beef at e4.50/kg not to mind e3.30 or whatever it is now. If they think they are making that "profit" there's two possibilities: 1. They are counting subsidies, income from other enterprises or (worse again) off-farm income as income from "beef farming" And/Or 2. They are not including their full costs of production: The ones usually left out are labour, capital, buildings and machinery - and God forbid you put a price on it - land.
Dunedin wrote: » If you use the logic of not counting subs as part of income, then say for example that Farmer A is making €10k loss on normal production but has subs of €50k. It’s still €40k profit so they should pack it in just because there was a loss in production. Whilst no one is happy that cost of production is barely covered and in a lot of cases it’s not even, but reality is that the subs are there and we benefit from them. The day they’re gone is the day the farmers will really exit and rightly so. Secondly, in some and indeed a lot of cases there are sheds in situ on farms that are long paid for and it’s only a paper cost if you are including them. Finally labour cost. If I go to an off farm job and get €500 per week then that or €26000 per year is my salary. Likewise if I end up with €26000 on farm profit (including subs) then that’s my income and covers the (my) labour cost. We often get caught up in factoring every last cost. Do you always hear of people working off farm talking about cost of going to work but I can tell you that diesel, car wear and tear, tax insurance, parking in some places, buying/bringing lunch, an odd fiver/tenner/twenty for Mary in accounts birthday or Fred’s leaving present. I commute to Dublin to work. Reckon it costs me €150 fuel/€10 tolls/€10 lunch/€10 misc each week which is nearly €9k a year.
Albert Johnson wrote: » I agree about the switch to other protein source's and I can't see why this trend won't be continued. Chicken and pork are of course cheaper, often quicker to cook and more versatile than the traditional choice cuts of beef or lamb. This will all influence people's decisions especially seeing as they now have to cook the majority of what they eat for the meanwhile. We can't really compete on price so we're depending on a superior eating experience but this argument falls short if the consumer isn't prepared to buy and cook out products. I suppose branding and marketing have a part to play but it's a tough ask imo. Having said that our local butcher seems to be doing a much better trade than in normal times so perhaps people are making a review of there shopping and dinning habits.
richie123 wrote: » Couldn't agree with that logic. Just because sheds are paid for doesn't mean they won't be repaired or replaced at great cost and it doesn't matter when. Cost for land has to be included because if you diddnt farm it it would have serious value leased out tax free. This is a common thought trap that huge numbers of farmers fall into.
Good loser wrote: » Don't you understand that the price of cattle is determined by market forces? Supply and demand? Factories reflect these forces in their quotes which fluctuate from day to day. Have you never heard the expression 'cattle are scarce'? No factory was responsible for the daft store prices of Jan and Feb 2020. .
Robson99 wrote: » Factory agents were the driving force buying stores in Jan and Feb. They were not active at the back end of last year and hence stores were cheaper then. It wasn't the farmers buying in Jan and Feb the agents were filling the sheds so as they would have a supply of cattle now when they should have been getting scarce. As always the would rather pay over the odds in the mart than to rise them 10 or 20 cent. Factories don't reflect prices ....They manipulate them to suit THEMSELVES
Bass Reeves wrote: » Any you allow for repairs. I have sheds that originally cost including some mats about 135k. I drew back vat of about 18k, grants of 62 K leaving a net cost of 55k. Part of it was done without a grant, tank put in under a straw bedded area. All of that was depreciated at 40c/ euro leaving a net cost after tax of 33k for accommodation for about 100 cattle. Now these sheds were build to grant spec and all beams were galavinized. Expected minimum lifespan before serious repairs is 40years +. Give it that over that time it has an aver of 80 cattle/ year wintered in it the cost / head is about 17/ head before tax or 10 euro after tax. The real cost is towards the bottom figure as for most of it two of the kids were in college and drawing a wage from the farm, two cars were being depreciated as was there fuel car tax etc. Interest on a land loan was very high ( hitting 5%at one stage) for about three years of it due to the recession You cannot put it land charge unless your are renting land as if you were not farming you cannot draw GLAS, ANC or a few other schemes such as KT or beef genetic scheme. If you decide to rent then you with lease ( income tax free) year renting and pay tax on it. Your other choice is sell the land. None of us are making a fortune but it a matter of seeing wood from the trees. That is not to say I am not annoyed about level of profitability in the sector. I do not see Europe as the answer. I was looking through some old accounts it ten years since the beef base was this low. Beef prices peaked pre Brexit. Since then the amount of money that has been taken from farmers is about 350 in net terms, costs have gone up 150 million I expect since then. That 500 million less in Irish farmers pocket's from the beef sector
Jjameson wrote: » There’s going to be a generation of lads going to their graves as old men, never a day hungry or a night without a roof over their head but still on their dying breath saying “I’m not making a living” You can farm it or rent it but you are a right gom if you are farming and charging yourself rent!
mr.stonewall wrote: » Just wondering did anyone get quotes for the next few days.
richie123 wrote: » When you do a profit monitor you include a land cost wether you own it or not You include depreciation on assets ..machinery sheds etc. You include a wage for yourself and any family members/friends etc you had working. it's irrelevant if all these figures makes the bottom line outrageous. That's the way accounts work.your only fooling yourself otherwise. It's important because when our farm leaders go to Europe looking for any financial help in times of hardship we need the most realistic figures based on the full facts not lads saying there doing great when in reality what there doing is losing hand over fist.
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