Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The HSE said an 'order could not be placed'.

I haven't seen anything else from them. Murphy seems to be saying the order went south after he had agreed on it and had been processing payment.

Would you process payment without a contract?

Short answer is I don't know what to believe and I will say again there needs to be transparency here. Which is what I was asked about. One side can't give that.

Asking Connor Murphy to confirm your suspicions isn't transparency, unfortunately.

I don't see why the HSE need to explain anything. They never said a contract had been finalized. Connor Murphy did so he should show us the signed contract or explain why he made the announcement before it was finalized.

jh79 wrote: »

I don't why the HSE need to explain anything. They never said a contract had been finalized. Connor Murphy did so he should show us the signed contract or explain why he made the announcement before it was finalized.

Don't be adding to what we know.
He said 'agreed'. That could mean anything.

The HSE said a joint order was not able to be placed. They didn't say whether one had been agreed or not.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't be adding to what we know.
He said 'agreed'. That could mean anything.

The HSE said a joint order was not able to be placed. They didn't say whether one had been agreed or not.

So he said it was agreed (not the HSE) and as you say it could mean anything so wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that CM explains what he meant by agreed and at what stage of the process they were actually at when he made his announcement?

jh79 wrote: »

So he said it was agreed (not the HSE) and as you say it could mean anything so wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that CM explains what he meant by agreed and at what stage of the process they were actually at when he made his announcement?

Yes. And he has done.

He was at processing payment stage when it emerged/he was told the order could not be processed.

The HSE were obviously involved at some level here.

When looking for transparency you need to hear from both party's. Basic proceedure for any fair inquiry...no?

p.s. You seem to be saying you will only be satisfied if he confirms what you think happened.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes. And he has done.

He was at processing payment stage when it emerged/he was told the order could not be processed.

The HSE were obviously involved at some level here.

When looking for transparency you need to hear from both party's. Basic proceedure for any fair inquiry...no?

p.s. You seem to be saying you will only be satisfied if he confirms what you think happened.

Inquiry into what exactly from the HSE perspective? They never said a contract had been finalized.

PM made a claim and has access to the relevant documents, he is in a position to clarify why he claimed an order was in place.

P.S. PM is a foreign politician and owes me no explanation. It's just funny to me how you have a different standard for SF politicians.

Sultan_of_Ping

Varadkar is doing alright amongst the Nordies......they have him ahead of O'Neill.

Even the Nationalist/Republicans have him ahead of O'Neill - if he's as bad as SF make out, how bad must she be!

cd76

Pkiernan wrote: »

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

They'be been shifting some ATMs around Dundalk and Forkhill in South Armagh.

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Varadkar is doing alright amongst the Nordies......they have him ahead of O'Neill.

Even the Nationalist/Republicans have him ahead of O'Neill - if he's as bad as SF make out, how bad must she be!

Wow, that’s some luck in the teeth for the shinners around here!

jh79 wrote: »

Inquiry into what exactly from the HSE perspective? They never said a contract had been finalized.

PM made a claim and has access to the relevant documents, he is in a position to clarify why he claimed an order was in place.

P.S. PM is a foreign politician and owes me no explanation. It's just funny to me how you have a different standard for SF politicians.

You are not going to believe Murphy...where does that leave us?

The HSE have to say what happened.

I am not talking about an Inquiry, I am talking making inquiries into what happened.
Murphy has said what he believes happened...you don't accept that. What now?

Yes..you want him to agree to your version of what happened. Stop being ridiculous, we simply need both sides of the story. :rolleyes:

all about the mane wrote: »

Wow, that’s some luck in the teeth for the shinners around here!

Why?

It isn't a comparison as far as I can see. And he isn't a leader in the north.
Are we running away with ourselves a bit here.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are not going to believe Murphy...where does that leave us?

The HSE have to say what happened.

I am not talking about an Inquiry, I am talking making inquiries into what happened.
Murphy has said what he believes happened...you don't accept that. What now?

Yes..you want him to agree to your version of what happened. Stop being ridiculous, we simply need both sides of the story. :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-conor-murphy-denies-misleading-assembly-over-ppe-1.4224390

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-hse-confirms-no-joint-order-for-ppe-with-northern-ireland-1.4220378

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/when-starting-pay-ps170m-ppe-stormont-minister-was-told-it-wasnt-coming-2533723

Bit more detail above.

SF simply jumped the gun before the order was finalized to try and show they were in control of the situation. MON claimed a contract had been signed, PM says he never said a contract was signed just an order placed. Did MON see a signed contract or did his department say one was signed?

SF made a mess of it, HSE has no questions to answer.

road_high

all about the mane wrote: »

Wow, that’s some luck in the teeth for the shinners around here!

Makes complete sense- The Taoiseach and FG have been the only ones doing anything anyway tangible for Northern Nationalists- looking out for their interests from Brexit to now Covid 19, while SF were floundering making videos about it.

The government in England seem more than happy too to "let them at it" allowing bit of Northern policy follow South as appropriate. BoJo referenced his constant contact with the Taoiseach a few times. It wasn't Ms O'Neill he was calling.
FG have done more practically and diplomatically to unite the country than SF whining and rabble rousing has ever done. Any sensible reasoned Northern Nationalist can appreciate and see that as poll confirms.

road_high

Not to mention our Government sorting the North out with PPE. SF were probably making videos about that too, I haven't seen.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why?

It isn't a comparison as far as I can see. And he isn't a leader in the north.
Are we running away with ourselves a bit here.

Then you need to look harder

jh79 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-conor-murphy-denies-misleading-assembly-over-ppe-1.4224390

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-hse-confirms-no-joint-order-for-ppe-with-northern-ireland-1.4220378

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/when-starting-pay-ps170m-ppe-stormont-minister-was-told-it-wasnt-coming-2533723

Bit more detail above.

SF simply jumped the gun before the order was finalized to try and show they were in control of the situation. MON claimed a contract had been signed, PM says he never said a contract was signed just an order placed. Did MON see a signed contract or did his department say one was signed?

SF made a mess of it, HSE has no questions to answer.

So this whole thing was about a 'contract' or an 'agreement' and the interpretation of same. Michelle O'Neill used the wrong term - what an appaling blunder, off with her head.

He seems to have satisfied the moderate Unionist anyhow:

Mr Aiken concluded by saying that, having heard the evidence, he was “content” and had “no doubt that you were doing your best and were trying to do your best in particularly trying circumstances”.

Interesting in his answers that he understood that there were people on the ground monitoring the quality of the items and that it was an 'established supply chain'.

all about the mane wrote: »

Then you need to look harder

What does, 'How has each performed in the context of their own position and responsibilities?' mean to you?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What does, 'How has each performed in the context of their own position and responsibilities?' mean to you?

It’s an assessment of each leader. These are then all put on the same graph to allow comparison. This is really simple stuff francie

James Brown

People in FG still afraid of SF?

When do we think they'll realise it's not SF but them? Never I suppose...egos won't allow it.

all about the mane wrote: »

It’s an assessment of each leader. These are then all put on the same graph to allow comparison. This is really simple stuff francie

Oh FFS. Poor poor you. Lordy!

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So this whole thing was about a 'contract' or an 'agreement' and the interpretation of same. Michelle O'Neill used the wrong term - what an appaling blunder, off with her head.

He seems to have satisfied the moderate Unionist anyhow:

Interesting in his answers that he understood that there were people on the ground monitoring the quality of the items and that it was an 'established supply chain'.

So you agree it was poor communication and a lack of diligence on the part of the SF ministers rather than an issue with the HSE?

Mr Aiken concluded by saying that, having heard the evidence, he was “content” and had “no doubt that you were doing your best and were trying to do your best in particularly trying circumstances”.

He made an understandable mistake in the circumstances maybe you should show the same level of understanding to our Ministers.

Mr Murphy replied: “Well, I think that anybody who places an order like that from China is basing it on the fact that there are people on the ground to try to establish the quality of it, the quantity of it and...we were operating on the back of an established supply line.”

That shows a lot of naivety and lack of understanding of logistics in healthcare on his part to assume a team where on the ground especially for an established supply line.

jh79 wrote: »

So you agree it was poor communication and a lack of diligence on the part of the SF ministers rather than an issue with the HSE?

Mr Aiken concluded by saying that, having heard the evidence, he was “content” and had “no doubt that you were doing your best and were trying to do your best in particularly trying circumstances”.

He made an understandable mistake in the circumstances maybe you should show the same level of understanding to our Ministers.

Mr Murphy replied: “Well, I think that anybody who places an order like that from China is basing it on the fact that there are people on the ground to try to establish the quality of it, the quantity of it and...we were operating on the back of an established supply line.”

That shows a lot of naivety and lack of understanding of logistics in healthcare on his part to assume a team where on the ground especially for an established supply line.

I NEVER said it was an issue with the HSE.
All I said was, that in the interests of transparency, the HSE should say what happened at their end.

Another lie/misrepresentation amid a plethora of them on here. You guys are a disgrace to honest debate.

And in case you don't understand, NOBODY can assess if somebody 'has done their best' until they know what it was that was done. Hence the reason people are asking questions.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I NEVER said it was an issue with the HSE.
All I said was, that in the interests of transparency, the HSE should say what happened at their end.

Another lie/misrepresentation amid a plethora of them on here. You guys are a disgrace to honest debate.

And in case you don't understand, NOBODY can assess if somebody 'has done their best' until they know what it was that was done. Hence the reason people are asking questions.

If you believed the HSE didn't do anything wrong why are you asking for transparency from them?

He announced the order before it was finalised, it's up him and SF to explain why they did this before the final sign off.

jh79 wrote: »

If you believed the HSE didn't do anything wrong why are you asking for transparency from them?

He announced the order before it was finalised, it's up him and SF to explain why they did this before the final sign off.

???

You didn't believe what he had to say.
I didn't know if he was telling the truth.

How do you normally arrive at the truth of what happened? How does it work in a court?
You GET both sides of the story.

If the HSE said nothing was agreed then that contradicts Murphy's story and you believe whoever you want to.

As it turns out it seems it was agreed and went south as Murphy said and it was MON using the word 'contract' that sparked the confusion. She should be more precise in future.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

???

You didn't believe what he had to say.
I didn't know if he was telling the truth.

How do you normally arrive at the truth of what happened? How does it work in a court?
You GET both sides of the story.

If the HSE said nothing was agreed then that contradicts Murphy's story and you believe whoever you want to.

As it turns out it seems it was agreed and went south as Murphy said and it was MON using the word 'contract' that sparked the confusion. She should be more precise in future.

PM is more culpable in my opinion. He knew that he only had an agreement and not an actual signed contract, he should of told MON that it was only an agreement.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh FFS. Poor poor you. Lordy! :D

Poor francie. Have a good read. You’ll see loads of comparisons being made based on the findings. #spoonfeeding

https://www.irishnews.com/coronavirus/2020/03/31/news/nationalists-almost-twice-as-likely-as-unionists-to-say-covid-19-response-too-slow--1884490/?fbclid=IwAR1VPiltMlwBWmhDOc-kWzRd2xFBdCBtXxkZbz9QRmaGfeF3bZd3ypiE5k8

jh79 wrote: »

PM is more culpable in my opinion. He knew that he only had an agreement and not an actual signed contract, he should of told MON that it was only an agreement.

How the f*** do you know what he told her?

What he said from day one seems to be now accepted. MON used the wrong term.

Unfortunate, but I think the big conspiracy theory here is in the bin. As I said at the start, I was perplexed as to what was in it for him or MON to gloat/brag when it was going to become evident very quickly there was nothing coming. It's not credible to believe that it was anything other than a cockup around terminology.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How the f*** do you know what he told her?

What he said from day one seems to be now accepted. MON used the wrong term.

Unfortunate, but I think the big conspiracy theory here is in the bin. As I said at the start, I was perplexed as to what was in it for him or MON to gloat/brag when it was going to become evident very quickly there was nothing coming. It's not credible to believe that it was anything other than a cockup around terminology.

He said that Ms O’Neill’s claim that an order had been placed “was in fact correct – we had in fact placed an order; at no stage had I said anything about signing contracts. I said we had placed an order.”

When asked about comments from Justice Minister Naomi Long and Ms O’Neill about the supposed order, he said: “I can’t account for the interpretation of what I say by other people...”

To be fair the conspiracy angle was you suggesting a need for transparency from the HSE. SF made a balls of it end of.

jh79 wrote: »

He said that Ms O’Neill’s claim that an order had been placed “was in fact correct – we had in fact placed an order; at no stage had I said anything about signing contracts. I said we had placed an order.”

When asked about comments from Justice Minister Naomi Long and Ms O’Neill about the supposed order, he said: “I can’t account for the interpretation of what I say by other people...”

To be fair the conspiracy angle was you suggesting a need for transparency from the HSE. SF made a balls of it end of.

No, the conspiracy theory was you suggesting he did it for vanity/political oneupmanship reasons.

That hasn't stuck so you may withdraw it, if you are man/woman enough.

I never accused the HSE of anything...conspiracy or incompetence.

all about the mane wrote: »

Poor francie. Have a good read. You’ll see loads of comparisons being made based on the findings. #spoonfeeding

https://www.irishnews.com/coronavirus/2020/03/31/news/nationalists-almost-twice-as-likely-as-unionists-to-say-covid-19-response-too-slow--1884490/?fbclid=IwAR1VPiltMlwBWmhDOc-kWzRd2xFBdCBtXxkZbz9QRmaGfeF3bZd3ypiE5k8

The reaction in the UK and NI was too slow...why? In NI because the DUP took the usual, back Westminister line. Who has polled ahead of Boris and Arlene on that poll?

Take your time.

Leo is the leader of a different jurisdiction and his caretaker gov. is doing well and it is reflected in that poll. I would imagine he'd be in the same position in a poll here...maybe higher, if the same question was asked.