Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Ok, I think we can safely say there no examples of SF successfully delivering major change projects. I'll let you take forward any discussion you want on the NCH debacle.

Personally anyway i think its hilarious lads cheerleading giving BAM a blank cheque.to critise anyone

Somehow,like welfare rates,this is SF fault dispite never being in government

Deleted User wrote: »

Boys in all.fairness FG handed BAM a blank cheque to build.the most expensive hospideal in the world (18 months behind scedule,before all this virus shìte too)

This is part of the problem though. Ireland does need that hospital, and presumably no one wants to see the State cut corners on building it.

I'd rather see it built on the M50 etc but what the **** do I know about building hospitals?

tikkahunter

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They have delivered equal rights and a share of the power in northern Ireland and have satisfied those they represented enough to be the still by far and away the most popular party. That is good enough for me if you are looking for credentials as to their fitness.
They have also IMO excelled themselves in the duty of being an opposition party.

That is more than enough for them to qualify for a vote. And I make no apology for that.

They are long way removed from the party that delivered equal rights in the north Francie .

standardg60 wrote: »

If 2011 was the final straw then why didn't you vote SF in 2016?
They were spouting the same populist nonsense then.
The reason SF are quiet now is because no one is now interested in the frivolous problems they were promising to fix.
The homelessness crisis that the hand ringers were concerned about has been forgotten because the hand ringers now have something to be concerned about which was always far more important to them..themselves.
The trolley crisis has evaporated because the people who clogged up the hospitals are now clogging up the covid 19 test centres, and when they eventually get their negative results they'll clog them up again because they may have caught it in the meantime.

Your looking down your nose (reminisccent of a party led by Leo) view of the trolley crisis was blown out of the water by a doctor last night on the Tonight Show. Look it up...very concerning if you are concerned about real people that they are not getting help for issues due to fears of the virus and taking up the time of GP's and hospitals.
I fully agree that a good share were people who were there, probably shouldn't have been. That was the system's fault...and who was running the system?

As to why I didn't vote for SF in 2016...what swung me was Enda saying it would take time and a very good performance locally by Heather Humphreys...come 2020, I could let that sway me, even.

tikkahunter wrote: »

They are long way removed from the party that delivered equal rights in the north Francie .

I don't agree. I think they were right to walk out of the Executive over foot dragging by the DUP. And they delivered quite a bit as a result of that even though they could not have foreseen the duplicity of May's government giving the DUP a hidey hole in Westminster. When the Tory's were done with the DUP they weren't long coming to the table and the Tory SoS wasn't afraid to blame the DUP as the 'blockage'.

Spanish Eyes

The current Government are throwing all the reserve money and more towards those who need it. It has been a great move and sorted out a lot of worry and angst for those who were laid off or lost their jobs.

When the next election comes around there will be nothing left in the coffers, so SF, if they have the same support will have no spare money to play with.

Anyway, I doubt CHANGE will be on anyone's agenda for a long while to come. Survival will come first.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They have delivered equal rights and a share of the power in northern Ireland and have satisfied those they represented enough to be the still by far and away the most popular party. That is good enough for me if you are looking for credentials as to their fitness.
They have also IMO excelled themselves in the duty of being an opposition party.

That is more than enough for them to qualify for a vote. And I make no apology for that.

Ya ya ya. We believe you

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't agree. I think they were right to walk out of the Executive over foot dragging by the DUP. And they delivered quite a bit as a result of that even though they could not have foreseen the duplicity of May's government giving the DUP a hidey hole in Westminster. When the Tory's were done with the DUP they weren't long coming to the table and the Tory SoS wasn't afraid to blame the DUP as the 'blockage'.

Can't agree. NI is going through another, hidden, public health crisis (one of the highest rates of suicide in the world). The right thing to do would be to lead through it, not walk away.

SF took the easy option.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That was the system's fault...and who was running the system?

.

Managers? Chiefs?

Mortelaro wrote: »

Managers? Chiefs?

Well you can stop the buck where you want. The government are ultimately responsible for the systems.
You want to make SF responsible for every system in the north, even though overarching control of them rest with Westminster but you wish to have a cutoff point in the south to protect...guess who?

smurgen

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Ok, so again, still no example of SF delivering any kind of project of scale?

NCH will probably be about 2 to 2.5 times over budget, but where's the evidence that if SF were in charge it wouldn't be 4 or 5 times over budget?

Plenty of evidence they can't deliver these projects.....

That's one of the worst arguments every.are we to forever say that there's no reason to charge as there's no evidence that someone will do better? If that was the line of thinking men wouldn't have left their caves. FG fanboys are cringe inducing on this site. FG and overspending are synonymous. If it wasn't for the big 4 steering them for everything resembling a decision they'd stuggling to tie their laces.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well you can stop the buck where you want. The government are ultimately responsible for the systems.
You want to make SF responsible for every system in the north, even though overarching control of them rest with Westminster but you wish to have a cutoff point in the south to protect...guess who?

Don't you be mentioning protection rackets,its best you don't ho there

It was ultimately Westminster that brought the various equalities you spoke of earlier as SF achievements, to the north not Sinn Féin

I believe in Democracy, so if SF want a mandate for their particular philosophy, they'll need 50% of the seats and to un persuade human nature of its desire for more and more and more aka incentive
Good luck with that!

Mortelaro wrote: »

Don't you be mentioning protection rackets,its best you don't ho there

It was ultimately Westminster that brought the various equalities you spoke of earlier as SF achievements, to the north not Sinn Féin

I believe in Democracy, so if SF want a mandate for their particular philosophy, they'll need 50% of the seats and to un persuade human nature of its desire for more and more and more aka incentive
Good luck with that!

FF/FG are basically the same party. Even they don't bother hiding it now in their quest to hold onto to control of the power.

My theory is they had fallen into a cozy swapping of the power, one knew that it was only a matter of time before the other got in, and on and on it went. And we got little variation in programmes for government. I speak as one who fell for it.

Now they are being challenged and more or less merging to protect that control.

No party will likely get over 50% of the vote here.

What we can hope for is that our coalitions cater for all the people and not just some. And that a different ideology in government will pay attention to areas where the power swap party's were too lazy to intervene or too invested in the rot continuing.
Even the threat of SF getting into power has brought change. That is a good thing IMO.

If you want to keep voting for the same, there isn't much can be done about that.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

That's one of the worst arguments every.are we to forever say that there's no reason to charge as there's no evidence that someone will do better? If that was the line of thinking men wouldn't have left their caves. FG fanboys are cringe inducing on this site. FG and overspending are synonymous. If it wasn't for the big 4 steering them for everything resembling a decision they'd stuggling to tie their laces.

Well yes, if the evidence suggests that things will get much worse if we take an alternative path, then why would we change?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't agree. I think they were right to walk out of the Executive over foot dragging by the DUP. And they delivered quite a bit as a result of that even though they could not have foreseen the duplicity of May's government giving the DUP a hidey hole in Westminster. When the Tory's were done with the DUP they weren't long coming to the table and the Tory SoS wasn't afraid to blame the DUP as the 'blockage'.

Is there a stand-alone Irish Language Act yet?

Will there ever be?

blanch152 wrote: »

Is there a stand-alone Irish Language Act yet?

Will there ever be?

You would be the first tapping on your keyboard if they didn't compromise and here you are tapping furiously because they did.

Any change in northern Ireland came slow and painfully. Maintaining position as the people's choice is the litmus test imo. And SF have passed that test in spades.

It's still a divided society because partition's goal was to do just that..divide along ethnic lines. And it succeeded in spades.
Have you ever welcomed what was achieved for those who identify as Irish there?
I don't think you have on here anyhow.
Next time the Dubs are playing a team made up of those who identify as Irish ask the supporters from the other team what they think of what has been achieved for them. Ask them about how they were treated just trying to play the game you cherish to get just a small flavour of what it was like to be a second class citizen.
In other words, get in touch with your empathy, because I think you are totally devoid of it, unless it is to emphatise with selective victims of partition.

The reality is, to varying degrees, we are all victims of partition.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you want to keep voting for the same, there isn't much can be done about that.

I actually voted for FG,FF,Soc Dem and green
They got 4 out of the 5 seats in my constituency, so I'm not complaining
Democracy in action as always
I should imagine as always arising out of the national picture a representative majority administration and opposition will rise,not one extreme or the other
Happy enough with that ,positive, no moaning to be honest:)

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You would be the first tapping on your keyboard if they didn't compromise and here you are tapping furiously because they did.

Any change in northern Ireland came slow and painfully. Maintaining position as the people's choice is the litmus test imo. And SF have passed that test in spades.

It's still a divided society because partition's goal was to do just that..divide along ethnic lines. And it succeeded in spades.
Have you ever welcomed what was achieved for those who identify as Irish there?
I don't think you have on here anyhow.
Next time the Dubs are playing a team made up of those who identify as Irish ask the supporters from the other team what they think of what has been achieved for them. Ask them about how they were treated just trying to play the game you cherish to get just a small flavour of what it was like to be a second class citizen.
In other words, get in touch with your empathy, because I think you are totally devoid of it, unless it is to emphatise with selective victims of partition.

The reality is, to varying degrees, we are all victims of partition.

So there is no Irish Language Act and the nurses doing without their pay rise did so in vain. Ah well.

Mortelaro wrote: »

I actually voted for FG,FF,Soc Dem and green
They got 4 out of the 5 seats in my constituency, so I'm not complaining
Democracy in action as always
I should imagine as always arising out of the national picture a representative majority administration and opposition will rise,not one extreme or the other
Happy enough with that ,positive, no moaning to be honest:)

Not sure what your point is.
I am a democrat, I will abide by what is done democratically. I may not agree with it though and will agitate...hurl from a ditch...moan...shout in the press (whatever dafuq that means) and complain. I will also uphold my right as a democrat to hold government to account and to arbitrate for change if they are failing at their job, which is to create a fair and inclusive society for everyone.

blanch152 wrote: »

So there is no Irish Language Act and the nurses doing without their pay rise did so in vain. Ah well.

Oh you really dealt with the point so well there blanch. You are everything that's wrong with the power swap party's. You want an Ireland for some, not for all.
And you'll pretend that you favour the Greens...i.e. an ideological coward.

I voted for SF and for this round of elections I remain proud of that vote and what it stands for. The quest for an Ireland for us all.
What the pandemic has proved is that we can all work for that (or the vast majority can) given the chance. Sad that it has taken that. And uplifting that FF/FG cannot so far railroad others into maintaining their cynical attempt to take advantage of the pandemic.
Sure, they might convince the Lowry's etc to bolster them...but in the medium term what is that going to achieve? I'd be surprised if FG and FF backbenchers will allow tbh. It's the ultimate kiss of death from politicians looking out for their short term careers. (Michael and Leo to name two)

Suckit

I honestly don't understand the people that keep bring NI up in relation to how things are/were running up there.
FG wouldn't have the balls to run up there and enter the race (irrelevant whether or not thy would want to).
SF are in government with DUP, not exactly known for getting on with each other, and Westminster not particularly fond of dealing with them either.
FG couldn't even pull their heads out of their backside to attempt to form a government here after the last GE. They were like petulant schoolkids scolded for underperforming.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The reality is, to varying degrees, we are all victims of partition.

Go on, explain how. There's always someone ready to play the victim card I suppose.

Suckit wrote: »

FG couldn't even pull their heads out of their backside to attempt to form a government here after the last GE. They were like petulant schoolkids scolded for underperforming.

And if they were trying to form a government, SF would be saying they're an arrogant power swap party
Which is it?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not sure what your point is.
I am a democrat, I will abide by what is done democratically. I may not agree with it though and will agitate...hurl from a ditch...moan...shout in the press (whatever dafuq that means) and complain. I will also uphold my right as a democrat to hold government to account and to arbitrate for change if they are failing at their job, which is to create a fair and inclusive society for everyone.

They'll always be failing in their job in your eyes though
In the FG thread you accused them of not taking all the Nphet public health advice, With no evidence At All to back that up
You pushed fake news
Such is the strength of your Sinn Fein devotion and fine Gael hate

mattser

Mortelaro wrote: »

They'll always be failing in their job in your eyes though
In the FG thread you accused them of not taking all the Nphet public health advice, With no evidence At All to back that up
You pushed fake news
Such is the strength of your Sinn Fein devotion and fine Gael hate

The Sultan fairly handed them their arses on a plate the past few days. When the hard questions are put they back off. Great to watch.

aido79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your looking down your nose (reminisccent of a party led by Leo) view of the trolley crisis was blown out of the water by a doctor last night on the Tonight Show.

Are you talking about Dr Michael O'Keefe?

Mortelaro wrote: »

They'll always be failing in their job in your eyes though
In the FG thread you accused them of not taking all the Nphet public health advice, With no evidence At All to back that up
You pushed fake news
Such is the strength of your Sinn Fein devotion and fine Gael hate

This is a serious problem. The Governments of the last decade are being compared to what an ideal Government would do at every step of the way.

Life doesn't work like that. All of us make mistakes as we go along.

Long term, the last two Governments got a lot more right than wrong, imo, and found the time for serious social reform, not all of which I personally agreed with, but sin é, that's the lot of Government.

Mortelaro wrote: »

They'll always be failing in their job in your eyes though
In the FG thread you accused them of not taking all the Nphet public health advice, With no evidence At All to back that up
You pushed fake news
Such is the strength of your Sinn Fein devotion and fine Gael hate

Well that is totally 'fake news' because I don't think I ever typed the word Nphet and if I said they hadn't taken all the public health advice, it was an opinion.

As is your opinion that I will always believe they are failing at their job. I direct you to the Brexit threads were I consistently praised the performance of several FG ministers.