Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In a perfect environment where our health service has been proven to be competent.

Sadly, given the state of the health service and the fact that FG were effectively voted out of office, that is NOT the case.

There is no 'should have' here. You cannot ask for all shoulders to be put to the wheel and then arrogantly dismiss advice.

It is SF who were arrogantly dismissing advise from NPHET not the other way around.

But you're right - we cannot ask for all shoulders to be put to the wheel. We know that SF will continue to do what SF tend to do; oppose for the sake of opposition.

FrancieBrady

Phoebas wrote: »

The lockdowns will only be successful if they are timed correctly and they have a very high degree of buy in.

That is why SF should support NPHET and not contradict it, especially based on political rather than medical reasoning.

In a perfect environment where our health service has been proven to be competent.

Sadly, given the state of the health service and the fact that FG were effectively voted out of office, that is NOT the case.

There is no 'should have' here. You cannot ask for all shoulders to be put to the wheel and then arrogantly dismiss advice.

Runaways wrote: »

If you’re really celebrating any minister current or formers performance in health you really really haven’t been paying attention.

Saying someone is doing a "pretty good job" is not celebrating anything - just acknowledging that they're holding it together in unprecedented circumstances and having the cop on to follow (and in some cases set) good international practice.

But look, SF's job is to be the professional, perpetual complainers - we all get that. Once you view them through that lens their behaviour makes sense.

And, really, if Varadkar came out and said he'd come up with a cure or a vaccine, some people would still criticise him for not coming up with it sooner!

dh1985 wrote: »

In Ni where SF are in power there is no complete lockdown and flights weren't cancelled from italy like people here are saying should have happened in the south. In fact schools in Ni were open a week later in NI under SF watch. Talking out of both sides of their mouths as per usual.

That's because the UK government and their experts weren't recommending it at the time. SF in the north called for this however. But some FG lads in here would have called that dissenting voice wreckless and that maybe SF should have just shut up there also and listen to Westminster and their experts.

Fann Linn

dh1985 wrote: »

In Ni where SF are in power there is no complete lockdown and flights weren't cancelled from italy like people here are saying should have happened in the south. In fact schools in Ni were open a week later in NI under SF watch. Talking out of both sides of their mouths as per usual.

You do know about Arlene Foster and that other party called DUP, or do you want a lesson?

smurgen wrote: »

This could potentially end in rolling lockdowns to September 2021 do you see a massive risk of non compliance with an early lock down of a week?

The lockdowns will only be successful if they are timed correctly and they have a very high degree of buy in.

That is why SF should support NPHET and not contradict it, especially based on political rather than medical reasoning.

dh1985

In Ni where SF are in power there is no complete lockdown and flights weren't cancelled from italy like people here are saying should have happened in the south. In fact schools in Ni were open a week later in NI under SF watch. Talking out of both sides of their mouths as per usual.

Runaways

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not sure there's too many would agree with that - seem to be doing a pretty job according to my bro (the doctor) and de ma (the retired nursing sister).

You'd wonder what unholy mess we'd be in now if we had an SF minister in Health!

If you’re really celebrating any minister current or formers performance in health you really really haven’t been paying attention.

Runaways wrote: »

Can you tell me what expertise Simon Harris has? To be in charge of such a serious brief?
Can you tell me what expertise Leo has when he was in health and then welfare and made an unholy balls of both? And then what expertise he had to end up Taoiseach?

And that golden child of all Eoghan Murphy?
In what universe is he appropriate for minister for housing? What relevant skills does he have?

Fact is we have a whole team of incompetents in briefs they have no business being in.

Coveney is doing a great job. The rest?

Don’t even

Yeah, I'm not sure there's too many would agree with that - seem to be doing a pretty job according to my bro (the doctor) and de ma (the retired nursing sister).

You'd wonder what unholy mess we'd be in now if we had an SF minister in Health!

smurgen wrote: »

Is that why Leo got the leadership ahead of coveney?

No, he got it because of something SF wouldn't understand - within the party he won the contest for ideas, plus he was just better organised.

It might come as a surprise to SF but dissent, discontent, factional politics are the signs of a healthy political party - it's a positive that the leader has to look over their shoulder and see two or three leaders-in-waiting willing, when necessary, to articulate potential policies at odds with the party.

Runaways

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

It would be better if SF kept quiet - they've spent decades telling people not to trust "the system" and as long trying to subvert the various authorities and institutions in the Republic and in the North. They can't undo that work among their followers and membership in a few weeks.

Plus, they literally have no expertise - leadership and progression in SF depends on ideological reliability, not inherent ability, which explains why they have what they have running their party.

Can you tell me what expertise Simon Harris has? To be in charge of such a serious brief?
Can you tell me what expertise Leo has when he was in health and then welfare and made an unholy balls of both? And then what expertise he had to end up Taoiseach?

And that golden child of all Eoghan Murphy?
In what universe is he appropriate for minister for housing? What relevant skills does he have?

Fact is we have a whole team of incompetents in briefs they have no business being in.

Coveney is doing a great job. The rest?

Don’t even

Phoebas wrote: »

Exactly. They were calling for a full lockdown when NPHET were not recommending that.

NPHET and the CMO have consistently told us that if we have a full lockdown at the wrong time it will not work, because we need everyone on board and they know that it is a time limited measure.

This could potentially end in rolling lockdowns to September 2021 do you see a massive risk of non compliance with an early lock down of a week?

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

It would be better if SF kept quiet

It would be better still if they took their lead on medical matters from the CMO and NPHET.

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

It would be better if SF kept quiet - they've spent decades telling people not to trust "the system" and as long trying to subvert the various authorities and institutions in the Republic and in the North. They can't undo that work among their followers and membership in a few weeks.

Plus, they literally have no expertise - leadership and progression in SF depends on ideological reliability, not inherent ability, which explains why they have what they have running their party.

Show me one post where SF gave dangerous advice in relation to the Corona virus?

Runaways wrote: »

Oh god

When did they go off script?
What script.
They were calling for full lockdown over a week ago and consistently since

Exactly. They were calling for a full lockdown when NPHET were not recommending that.

NPHET and the CMO have consistently told us that if we have a full lockdown at the wrong time it will not work, because we need everyone on board and they know that it is a time limited measure.

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

It would be better if SF kept quiet - they've spent decades telling people not to trust "the system" and as long trying to subvert the various authorities and institutions in the Republic and in the North. They can't undo that work among their followers and membership in a few weeks.

Plus, they literally have no expertise - leadership and progression in SF depends on ideological reliability, not inherent ability, which explains why they have what they have running their party.

Is that why Leo got the leadership ahead of coveney?

Phoebas wrote: »

The vast majority of people will simply abide by it, so it will not need enforcement for them.

The reason it's important that this is coming from the health professionals and not politicans is that you need more or less everyone on board for it to be successful.
SF going off script isn't helpful.

It would be better if SF kept quiet - they've spent decades telling people not to trust "the system" and as long trying to subvert the various authorities and institutions in the Republic and in the North. They can't undo that work among their followers and membership in a few weeks.

Plus, they literally have no expertise - leadership and progression in SF depends on ideological reliability, not inherent ability, which explains why they have what they have running their party.

Runaways wrote: »

Oh god

When did they go off script?
What script.
They were calling for full lockdown over a week ago and consistently since

You don't get it. If you don't call for the exact thing the government and it's select group of doctors want at the exact time they want in and not a moment sooner then you're a dissident and a threat to the public.

Runaways

Phoebas wrote: »

The vast majority of people will simply abide by it, so it will not need enforcement for them.

The reason it's important that this is coming from the health professionals and not politicans is that you need more or less everyone on board for it to be successful.
SF going off script isn't helpful.

Oh god

When did they go off script?
What script.
They were calling for full lockdown over a week ago and consistently since

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm sure you can find a hundred doctors with a hundred different opinions.

If only we could have a group of medical professionals in a leadership role who could look at the various options and come up with a plan that we could all follow together.

But they'll be swayed by those that hire them undoubtedly. Just look at trump in the U.S with Fauci and co.Do you agree that Harris not restricting flights from Northern Italy was a good or bad decision?

smurgen wrote: »

Going off script?in what sense?are they asking for things to be reopened or did I miss something?

They were asking for things to be closed contrary to the advise of the NPHET.

smurgen wrote: »

There was plenty of doctors telling the government to hurry up and lock it down.

I'm sure you can find a hundred doctors with a hundred different opinions.

If only we could have a group of medical professionals in a leadership role who could look at the various options and come up with a plan that we could all follow together.

Phoebas wrote: »

The vast majority of people will simply abide by it, so it will not need enforcement for them.

The reason it's important that this is coming from the health professionals and not politicans is that you need more or less everyone on board for it to be successful.
SF going off script isn't helpful.

Going off script?in what sense?are they asking for things to be reopened or did I miss something?

FrancieBrady

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

If by depleting you mean spending more and more money on it, then yes. A 500 percent increase since 1997.

I'm glad the government are taking advice from medical professionals and not "the country". Taking advice from "the country" would be pure populism, and not what we need more when hard decisions need to be taken.

They are taking advice from 'some medical professionals'. There is different opinions among medics and even specialists.

And why would I be talking about 'money'?

Inaction and incompetence has depleted the health service. Employing and listening to the 'wrong professionals' there as well.

Runaways wrote: »

Would love to know how they’re going to try enforce this though

The vast majority of people will simply abide by it, so it will not need enforcement for them.

The reason it's important that this is coming from the health professionals and not politicans is that you need more or less everyone on board for it to be successful.
SF going off script isn't helpful.

ThunbergsAreGo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Exactly...so you should be taking sensible advise. There was a mood in the country two weeks ago for this and it should have been done.

We also have relatively small numbers infected here but because successive governments have so depleted the health service we are facing capacity already.

We should have very 'humble' members of government as a result not arrogant...'what would you know' dictators.

If by depleting you mean spending more and more money on it, then yes. A 500 percent increase since 1997.

I'm glad the government are taking advice from medical professionals and not "the country". Taking advice from "the country" would be pure populism, and not what we need more when hard decisions need to be taken.

FrancieBrady

Phoebas wrote: »

Jaysus Francie - thank God we have anonymous internet folk like you to tell us all about the 'fairly simple medicine'.

No need for the CMO or NPHET.

There is a need for those agencies, as there is a need for all opinions. Of which 'mine' is just one.