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Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Spear

And since the episode and spoilers are out, another thread follows.

I got some fairly mixed feelings on this one.

Some parts of it felt cheap, both in terms of resources and story telling. One gets offed, another gets away scot-free when she just fumes a bit instead of culminating a couple of decades of work. The use of the golem undermines one of the underlying conceits of the series, that of Picards mortality. The Starfleet squadron was just a lot of copy and pasting, and Riker seemed poorly greenscreened into place. And where's that Seven/Raffi thing coming from? That's just randomly shoehorned into two seconds of the final shot.

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Thargor

So everyone is immortal now and can live forever through brain swapping into new superhuman robot bodies? That's now canon? What an utter heap of sh1t. I started out with such high hopes but they steadily dipped with each episode, turning into pure hatred around the time of those hologram adverts/Legolas showing up. The finale was the worst of all.

You just have to accept Star Trek is dead and they'll never make a proper film or series again, theres nobody left in Hollywood who gets it, they'll just keep flogging the corpse and churning out hideous crap like this. Surprised there wasnt a transexual or a Donald Trump character shoehorned in somewhere.

All you can do is rewatch TNG/DS9 and VOY every few years, a true golden age. Turn on any random episode of TNG and see scenes like this that if you gave JJ Abrams and the Picard team 10 years and $10 billion and they wouldn't be able to come close:

GreeBo

"did you Fúck any of them"

/me out.

FutureGuy

Question.

Does Picard love Data?

OR

Does Picard actually love LOVE Data?

velo.2010

Just thinking of it now. The universe is in great peril and barely survives being annihilated by a great inter-dimensional threat, and Starfleet just heads off and leaves Picard to it. Nobody hangs back to see whats going on or file a report? Then we hear, out of nowhere, that the ban on synths has been lifted with no fanfare or discourse. Nonsensical given the emphasis placed on the synths story line and the importance of finding that planet.

Spear

velo.2010 wrote: »

Just thinking of it now. The universe is in great peril and barely survives being annihilated by a great inter-dimensional threat, and Starfleet just heads off and leaves Picard to it. Nobody hangs back to see whats going on or file a report? Then we hear, out of nowhere, that the ban on synths has been lifted with no fanfare or discourse. Nonsensical given the emphasis placed on the synths story line and the importance of finding that planet.

The pacing of the entire season was all over the place. It had a ponderous and wasteful approach on some things, and badly rushed other things. It would have benefited greatly from a more aggressive editor.

FutureGuy

Zhat Vash soldiers: Use personal transporters to fight Dajh
Narissa: Use personal transporter to escape XB's
Also Narissa: Aiiieeeeee I am falling down the Borg cube shaft. Goodbye world.

helimachoptor

Poor episode overall.

the copy/paste of the STO quality looking ships was ****ing awful.
Like at least have a varied fleet lads.

The resurrection of Picard I wasn't happy with, would prefer him to last until Season 2 and then die.

The left field lesbians, like where did that come from. Not even a mention of poor Chakotay.

A Finish guy made a fan movie a few years ago which was Starfleet Vs Babylon 5, basically that was higher quality than Riker sitting on the bridge.
Also he retired as an Admiral, you don't come back as a lesser rank.

But the scene with Picard/Data pulled on the heart strings, amazing but.. where the **** was Geordi????

Stark

helimachoptor wrote: »

But the scene with Picard/Data pulled on the heart strings, amazing but.. where the **** was Geordi????

He was busy with Hugh's afterlife dream.

Xertz

Also, seriously .. what's with this terrible fear of immortality they all seem to have. It would be great! One less thing to worry about.

Human or machine, who want's to age?

It would seem to me that Data had the one thing that humans have dreamt of for millennia, yet just threw it all away to be more human.

Never understood that line of thinking.

Likewise one could easily imagine TNG Picard just going for life immortality at a dignified looking 50-60 and spending millennia exploring the universe. He wouldn't' have traded it for a few years for no reason if he didn't have to. I mean the guy had a to of very time consuming hobbies, like archaeology, to be getting on with!

Goodshape

Never has a fleet of starships looked so bland and boring.

Which one of these is Riker supposed to be on, leading the fleet? They don't even seem to have names or registries.

And why 100s of these things anyway. They could have had 3 or 4 ships on each side, given them a bit of character and filmed them properly, and it would have felt just as threatening, if not more-so. These things might as well be shuttle-crafts for all we know.

Xertz

I would suspect the reason they 'zipped' out of shot so quickly is they didn't spend a huge budget doing CGI to get them all sophisticated looking.

Bobtheman

Thargor wrote: »

So everyone is immortal now and can live forever through brain swapping into new superhuman robot bodies? That's now canon? What an utter heap of sh1t. I started out with such high hopes but they steadily dipped with each episode, turning into pure hatred around the time of those hologram adverts/Legolas showing up. The finale was the worst of all.

You just have to accept Star Trek is dead and they'll never make a proper film or series again, theres nobody left in Hollywood who gets it, they'll just keep flogging the corpse and churning out hideous crap like this. Surprised there wasnt a transexual or a Donald Trump character shoehorned in somewhere.

All you can do is rewatch TNG/DS9 and VOY every few years, a true golden age. Turn on any random episode of TNG and see scenes like this that if you gave JJ Abrams and the Picard team 10 years and $10 billion and they wouldn't be able to come close:

We all have a tendency to think things were better in the past. TNG was a great series I would agree . So was DS9 but Voyager ?? Really . Sure it had some great episodes but some really boring characters.
Trek had to evolve somewhat. The next generation was different from the original . I think Picard is more trek than Discovery because PICARD is more positive. The federation got it's moral act together. Picard found a new purpose etc

GreeBo

One more question from me....why is Theon Greyjoy in space ?

I was somewhat ok with him just looking like him, but now his character redemption arc is the exact same...with a bit of space lanisters thrown in.

Bobtheman

Im a bit confused about DATA. Where was his consciousness all this time? Why did he want to die?

Evade

What was the point of this series? It's such a disjointed mess of go nowhere padding plots for something that's supposed to be a continuous story.

Picard's "death" might have had a little more weight if we didn't know a second series was on the way. Data's death wish doesn't make much sense when he could have been downloaded into a Picard style body with a finite lifespan. And on that why didn't they put him in a new body before the series since they already had his mind?

It's nice to see there's seemingly no consequences for anything. Jurati gets off for murdering Maddox, Oh was exposed as a spy and led an invasion fleet into Federation space and was just asked to leave. The synth ban was overturned somehow, I'm sure that was a popular move in the Federation this series showed.

The Seven and Raffi thing makes Rios and Jurati look like a whirlwind romance. I suspect that shot will be cut from some regions.

Why does Soji insist the synths aren't organic? Dahj definitely looked like she was when she was being vapourised and that eye looked like an eye.

There's definitely a good story to be told with some of the elements they tried to bring up but this isn't it.

Bobtheman

Evade wrote: »

What was the point of this series? It's such a disjointed mess of go nowhere padding plots for something that's supposed to be a continuous story.

Picard's "death" might have had a little more weight if we didn't know a second series was on the way. Data's death wish doesn't make much sense when he could have been downloaded into a Picard style body with a finite lifespan. And on that why didn't they put him in a new body before the series since they already had his mind?

It's nice to see there's seemingly no consequences for anything. Jurati gets off for murdering Maddox, Oh was exposed as a spy and led an invasion fleet into Federation space and was just asked to leave. The synth ban was overturned somehow, I'm sure that was a popular move in the Federation this series showed.

The Seven and Raffi thing makes Rios and Jurati look like a whirlwind romance. I suspect that shot will be cut from some regions.

Why does Soji insist the synths aren't organic? Dahj definitely looked like she was when she was being vapourised and that eye looked like an eye.

There's definitely a good story to be told with some of the elements they tried to bring up but this isn't it.

I agree with you on Picards death and the series was somewhat disjointed. I am confused why DATA wanted to die?He wasnt even Picard's age? But overall it worked for me. I enjoyed it-plot holes and all.

[Deleted User]

Looking back on the whole I’ll give the series a 7 and I was expecting a 6.

NuMarvel

Bobtheman wrote: »

Im a bit confused about DATA. Where was his consciousness all this time? Why did he want to die?

He watched the previous episodes?

NuMarvel

So, questions:

What happened to the Borg cube? Did they just leave it there, semi-functional, on the homeworld of a species that can summon a robo-Cthulhu?? Bit odd to just forget about it after spending so much time on it earlier in the season.
Raffia and 7. I suppose it makes sense given all the time they spent together earlier in the season. Oh. Wait...
Where were they flying off to at the end? Rios was hired to do a job, and that job is done. Are they a proper crew now?
How the blazes did Narissa get from the bridge of a Romulan ship to the cube? I mean other than fulfilling the plot requirement of giving 7 someone to fight.
So we've completely forgotten about the Romulan spy who spent most of his time this season trying to kill the synths? Yeah, okay then.
Why is Riker an "acting" captain? That was his actual rank the last time we saw him in Nemesis. Then again, his previous episode seems to have forgotten that tid bit entirely, so at least it's consistently wrong.

Rawr

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Also, and this really bugged me, was that MASSIVE federation fleet all the same class of ship? Ctrl + V needed to be eased up a bit...

This bugged me a lot. Over the years of practical model work and early CGI they've always managed to give us a good pick'n'mix of Starfleet vessels in an armada. A sky full of near identical clones of what I think is the Enterprise F design facing off a Copy/Paste fleet of warbirds was visually very boring. Come on guys, much of the fun of this show was TNG references. Throw in some Sovereign Class varients as an example of older ships. Hell...even throw in some Miranda Class...those things last forever

As for the episode......hmm....for a show where Picard actually dies, it was kind of slow and boring. I was a little annoyed with the cop-out with Picard's death but they were sort of for-shadowing it a bit.

The end of Data did work though...it felt like a proper goodbye for him....with him finally at last getting to be a mortal human (sort of). It was sad to see him go, but it felt right that he did.

Seven still works, and I'm glad that we're getting more of her. Although, god damn it, what is it about shoe-horning un-explained romances into her story in the last episode of a season. This is Chakotay all over again

So...a surprisingly sequel-friendly ending there. Room for a Season 2 if Robo-Picard is up to it. I'd probably watch that, but they'll need to do a better job with the overall plot next time, they sort of ran out of steam there in the last few episodes.

EltonJohn69

Chikotay didn’t Seven....EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS !!!

[Deleted User]

I must be missing on something there. Weren’t they a thing for a while?

pixelburp

The point all along of Picard was, it turns out, Data. A big 10 episode dawdle to get to a point where Picard had a chance to say goodbye properly. I guess a do over on Nemesis' sloppy ending. Beyond that I'm just not sure sure. Will think more on it but a bit disappointing as finales go.

For a few minutes, I'd honestly thought Trek might pull a Dr Who and regenerate Picard into a younger actor. Crazy, controversial but it would have been something at least. Instead, it was a laziest rugpull I've seen from a script in ages.

moonlighting_1

Jesus not sure what to make of it. Overall I somewhat enjoyed the season. It was watchable as the saying goes.

Star Trek Discovery on the other hand was a compete disaster for me gave up watching it half way through
having watched all previous star treks.

CastorTroy

But the Seven/Raffi thing was so obvious in episode 5... apparently

https://ie.ign.com/articles/picard-finale-michael-chabon-data-death-seven-raffi-star-trek

[Deleted User]

moonlighting_1 wrote: »

Jesus not sure what to make of it. Overall I somewhat enjoyed the season. It was watchable as the saying goes.

Star Trek Discovery on the other hand was a compete disaster for me gave up watching it half way through
having watched all previous star treks.

I enjoyed Discovery far more than this.

pixelburp

Discovery, for all its flaws, had a scope and pacing. People may not have liked the details but it had a purpose. There was a central plot, mystery and drive. At the end of this series I'm really not sure what the point was, beyond CBS looking to exploit the endorphin rush of cheap nostalgia.

That my biggest disappointment is how we didn't see Picard regenerate into a younger actor speaks to the weird cultural space this show has found itself in with me. Instead a 94 year old man got a few more years in a wasted robot body. A effin BIZARRE creative decision.

McDermotX

I think this show is one of the worst things I've ever seen.

I'm not even sure I'm talking about just television.

Fantastic that its over, but the idea that this crap would somehow have a future is baffling.

GSPfan

I actually really liked this episode and i also agree that they have made a mess of something that I had great hopes for.

I really liked how they eventually came to feel like a proper crew. Maybe a bit more of that before this finale would have been nice.

There’s no way that Romulan bird is dead. Falling into darknes is no death. She either beamed out or she barely survives the fall by using some sort of semi assimilation and comes back

_Kaiser_

That was unbelievable levels of shyte! (now edited with more thoughts)

Picard's death is completely undermined a few scenes later (guess they didn't learn that lesson from the ENT finale!), and now he's an Android/Synth/whatever too? But it's OK because I suppose no one knows outside of that group, he's alright with it himself (because that would be completely in character ???!!), and he has a built-in expiry date (someone was watching Blade Runner) .. Fook right off!

The magical repair tool that can also project hundreds of starship holograms into space that can fool 200 ship's sensors.. Then the copy and paste massive Starfleet fleet, just blurry and badly lit enough to not give a proper look at any of them (the scene itself pretty much lifted from the Discovery finale without the pew pew they normally resort to to cover these holes).
Oh and Romulan military tech has gone backwards these days as it takes an age to retarget weapons now unlike say when the Tal Shiar/Obsidian Order fleet dropped out of warp and commenced bombardment of the Founders home world pretty much immediately for example!

Then the equally bad green-screen insertion of Frakes/Riker - tight angle with what.. 2 extras?
Speaking of Riker, you'd think he'd have wanted to be there at the death of his friend and mentor, but sure no worries. It's better Picard died among virtual strangers I'm sure. :rolleyes:

About the one plus was the scene with Data, but even that was anticlimactic - it could have been an additional scene at the end of Nemesis on the holodeck. Not enough to base an entire series on. Piss poor as it was.

Optimus Prime wrote: »

I wanted to love this so much. But it’s not Star Trek. It’s a trek show twisted and bastardised into a modern tv show. It’s so annoying, I really wanted this but no. Would have been better if left to my imagination of what could have happened to these characters.

This.. SO many times this!

I had hope as well, but I should have known better given this was produced by the same people who make Discovery.

These shows are more like an awful, cheap (I'm sure it cost a fortune though), generic knock-off that is an insult to the source material and the fans who watched and supported it.

I thought they couldn't do worse than the season finale of Discovery last year. I was wrong!

Disgusted. (edit : and having slept on it it's no better!)