Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Runaways wrote:

Iâ€™m fairly sure everyone will remember who did this come next election.

Again, I somehow seriously doubt this, I suspect ffg will come off smelling of roses

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, I somehow seriously doubt this, I suspect ffg will come off smelling of roses

Very possible. And it wouldn’t surprise me either. We’ve short memories in this country when it comes to these two.

all about the mane

Auguste Comte wrote: »

I highly doubt that. When people see how FG ran down the health service leaving us with the worst health service in Europe while we face into biggest health care crisis in generations they will reassess their priorities.

Just like Britain after WW2 people will see that society not the economy needs to be the priority.

‘Ran down the health service’. Have you seen the size of the health budget?

Auguste Comte

all about the mane wrote: »

‘Ran down the health service’. Have you seen the size of the health budget?

Wasted by FFG mismanagement, leaving us facing into this crisis with the worst health care service in Europe.

funnyname

all about the mane wrote: »

‘Ran down the health service’. Have you seen the size of the health budget?

Throwing money at a problem is never the solution. There are major structural issues within the health service before it gets better, money alone is not the solution!

suicide_circus

funnyname wrote: »

Throwing money at a problem is never the solution. There are major structural issues within the health service before it gets better, money alone is not the solution!

Had SF been in government they would have tackled the the unions head on and implemented sweeping changes !!

Iscreamkone

I’m not a SF supporter or voter.
But I do find it interesting that all those who said “where will you get the money?” to SFs economic polices didn’t raise an eyebrow to the gargantuan spending by a “right wing government” over the last few weeks.

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I’m not a SF supporter or voter.
But I do find it interesting that all those who said “where will you get the money?” to SFs economic polices didn’t raise an eyebrow to the gargantuan spending by a “right wing government” over the last few weeks.

Made that exact point in another thread.

Suddenly there is a magic money tree SF are only ever accused of needing.

But it’s ok now cos FG are doing it.

If they had gone at the housing crisis with even a fraction of this crisis effort they’d have a lot more support than they currently have.

Languishing in third place in peoples votes

christy c

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I’m not a SF supporter or voter.
But I do find it interesting that all those who said “where will you get the money?” to SFs economic polices didn’t raise an eyebrow to the gargantuan spending by a “right wing government” over the last few weeks.

These are extraordinary times, and we will be running a huge budget deficit as a direct result of the virus. This is not a policy we should be following during "normal" times.

Runaways wrote: »

Made that exact point in another thread.

Suddenly there is a magic money tree SF are only ever accused of needing.

But it’s ok now cos FG are doing it.

If they had gone at the housing crisis with even a fraction of this crisis effort they’d have a lot more support than they currently have.

Languishing in third place in peoples votes

It's the money set aside for Brexit. The rest will have to be borrowed and hopefully rather cheaply as this is a world wide issue.

Under normal circumstances the spending SF intend to do would cause an increase in borrowing costs and be unsustainable. That's why SF can't form a government they can't explain how all this spending would be funded, even the lunatics in PBP were questioning their manifesto.

thecomedian

Runaways wrote: »

Made that exact point in another thread.

Suddenly there is a magic money tree SF are only ever accused of needing.

But it’s ok now cos FG are doing it.

If they had gone at the housing crisis with even a fraction of this crisis effort they’d have a lot more support than they currently have.

Languishing in third place in peoples votes

I thought it was the money being saved up for Brexit or the rainy day fund because of the last recession.

I think others were questioning the need for this.
Lucky now.

jh79 wrote: »

It's the money set aside for Brexit. The rest will have to be borrowed and hopefully rather cheaply as this is a world wide issue.

Under normal circumstances the spending SF intend to do would cause an increase in borrowing costs and be unsustainable. That's why SF can't form a government they can't explain how all this spending would be funded, even the lunatics in PBP were questioning their manifesto.

Understand that.
But we need to look back too. Nama even. Selling off assets and huge amounts of property for pennies. And banks to vulture funds.
Was that decision to allow them to not the exact stupidity and wrecklessness people are afraid of SF for?

Do SF supporters not realize we are part of the global economy and any policies we introduce will have a reaction from those it affects? We don't exist in a vacuum and money is easy to move around the world. The populist nonsense that the "elites" will pay for everything will just end up with them shutting up shop and moving elsewhere.

jh79 wrote: »

Do SF supporters not realize we are part of the global economy and any policies we introduce will have a reaction from those it affects? We don't exist in a vacuum and money is easy to move around the world. The populist nonsense that the "elites" will pay for everything will just end up with them shutting up shop and moving elsewhere.

in many cases, 'the elites' are not actually human beings, they are an accumulation of human interactions in the form of institutions and corporations etc

thecomedian

Runaways wrote: »

Understand that.
But we need to look back too. Nama even. Selling off assets and huge amounts of property for pennies. And banks to vulture funds.
Was that decision to allow them to not the exact stupidity and wrecklessness people are afraid of SF for?

I can’t say for all assets sold but there were assets sold because we had to sell them. We were over a barrel at times.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

in many cases, 'the elites' are not actually human beings, they are an accumulation of human interactions in the form of institutions and corporations etc

We need them more than they need us.

jh79 wrote: »

Do SF supporters not realize we are part of the global economy and any policies we introduce will have a reaction from those it affects? We don't exist in a vacuum and money is easy to move around the world. The populist nonsense that the "elites" will pay for everything will just end up with them shutting up shop and moving elsewhere.

I don’t want elites to pay for anything.

It would just be enough if the companies they own shares in paid their correct and fair amount of taxes. That’s all.

thecomedian wrote: »

I can’t say for all assets sold but there were assets sold because we had to sell them. We were over a barrel at times.

Certainly. But it’s ongoing. They’re selling off vast amounts of property at beneath bargain basement prices. They continue to do so.

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

Refused nurses a pay rise.
Threatened them if they striked
Shamed into paying student nurses during this crisis.

I’m fairly sure everyone will remember who did this come next election.

That is all small beer compared with saving the country.

jh79 wrote: »

We need them more than they need us.

its a symbiotic relationship, we have a lot to offer large corporations, largely english speaking workforce, well educated workforce, access to a relatively good education system, relatively stable economy and society, yes i know, we re not entirely stable here, but... the list goes on and on and on, our country is very well suited for large corporations

blanch152

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its a symbiotic relationship, we have a lot to offer large corporations, largely english speaking workforce, well educated workforce, access to a relatively good education system, relatively stable economy and society, yes i know, we re not entirely stable here, but... the list goes on and on and on, our country is very well suited for large corporations

You forgot to add that we also have traditionally offered stable centrist governments. That factor has been the creator of most of the other things you mention, and has therefore a much greater importance.

That would change if we ever had a SF-led government.

smurgen

all about the mane wrote: »

‘Ran down the health service’. Have you seen the size of the health budget?

Just because the budget is huge means nothing.this indicates a a lack of governance and mismanagement if anything. Same with FAI same with the massive infrastructure investments. It's a running theme.

blanch152 wrote: »

You forgot to add that we also have traditionally offered stable centrist governments. That factor has been the creator of most of the other things you mention, and has therefore a much greater importance.

That would change if we ever had a SF-led government.

oh i do partially agree, id accept a centrist government, even though im a leftie myself, but our centrist governments have also flirted with more conservative policies over the years, which has done irreversible damage to our society

maybe, maybe not, we ve no real way of actually knowing this for sure unless we try it, again im personally not sure we ll ever see a sf lead government

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

That is all small beer compared with saving the country.

Blanch your green party ruling out working with FG and FF and yet you're still here attacking SF. It's more or less impossible to take you serious anymore.

Auguste Comte

blanch152 wrote: »

That is all small beer compared with saving the country.

It's FG's past mismanagement, leaving us with the worst, most poorly equipped health service in Europe that will lead to the unnecessary, avoidable deaths of Irish people.

It's the nurses that FG fcuked over that will be left to save the country.

Runaways wrote: »

I don’t want elites to pay for anything.

It would just be enough if the companies they own shares in paid their correct and fair amount of taxes. That’s all.

Which is all well and good if they agree to it but if they up and jump ship, what then?

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

Just because the budget is huge means nothing.this indicates a a lack of governance and mismanagement if anything. Same with FAI same with the massive infrastructure investments. It's a running theme.

What’s your solution to the health service?

is_that_so

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I’m not a SF supporter or voter.
But I do find it interesting that all those who said “where will you get the money?” to SFs economic polices didn’t raise an eyebrow to the gargantuan spending by a “right wing government” over the last few weeks.

It is cash we have or have easy access to. The approach is also cautious - i.e. 12 weeks maximum not a full on indefinite tap for everyone in the country. The pre-election promises were estimated at €11-14bn for FF & FG and €18bn+ for SF.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

That is all small beer compared with saving the country.

dont be speaking too soon