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Leaving Cert 2020 arrangements due to COVID-19

Millionaire only not

Just asking yer opinion on leaving cert seen as the equivalent has been cancelled in the uk !
I’ve a teenager repeating there leaving and thought of another year gone there finding it unbearable but could it happen ?
Personally I don’t think so as the back log would mess up everything for years !
So could it be based on mock past papers , or sitting exam in July /aug ?
Opinions welcomed

MOD:
Update as of 10th April

This year's Leaving Certificate examinations have been postponed until late July or August.

The State Junior Certificate exams have been cancelled and will be replaced by school based assessments and school exams early in the coming academic year.

The Department of Education says the decisions have been made based on advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team.

Schools are to remain closed until further notice.

The deadline for submission of Leaving Certificate practical and other projects, in subjects such has History, Geography, Art, PE and Construction, has also been rescheduled for an as yet to be decided date later in the summer.

Details as to this year's Leaving Certificate timetable will be confirmed in early June, when there is likely to be a clearer picture as to the kind of public health concerns - such as social distancing requirements - that will need to be taken into account.

Final arrangements on scheduling and other details related to the examinations will be determined by the State Examinations Commission then.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0410/1129844-state-exams-coronavirus/

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mdudy

spurious wrote: »

What do you want? No exam?
It's postponed a bit. Not the end of the world.

Yes, obviously they should be cancelled. Ireland has an unhealthy, obsessive relationship with the Leaving Cert and teachers unwilling to give predictive grades.

This is going to predominantly affect those from lower-socioeconomic backgrounds as those who can afford to try again, not try at all (and go to a grinds school), or try with a supportive and healthy home-life conducive to studying, will do so. Never-mind those who want to study outside of the state.

To continue with an unclear policy, exacerbating the mental health effects of both the Leaving Cert and the coronavirus, is just plain cruel. Most sensible people will not envisage exam halls in Summer, and it is ridiculous that the government continues with this policy.

They should consider what the UK its doing or devise their own strategy. Of all the things the pandemic has presented this is an easy problem to solve, of which the government seem reluctant to solve adequately.

Peregrine

You've probably already seen this but, for the sake of posterity, this is the latest announcement:

This year's Leaving Certificate examinations have been postponed until late July or August.

The State Junior Certificate exams have been cancelled and will be replaced by school based assessments and school exams early in the coming academic year.

The Department of Education says the decisions have been made based on advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team.

Schools are to remain closed until further notice.

Schools will remain closed until further notice, says Education Minister Joe McHugh. Junior Cert will be replaced by school-based exams in the next school year. Leaving Cert will be postponed to begin in late July or early August.

The deadline for submission of Leaving Certificate practical and other projects, in subjects such has History, Geography, Art, PE and Construction, has also been rescheduled for an as yet to be decided date later in the summer.

Details as to this year's Leaving Certificate timetable will be confirmed in early June, when there is likely to be a clearer picture as to the kind of public health concerns - such as social distancing requirements - that will need to be taken into account.

Final arrangements on scheduling and other details related to the examinations will be determined by the State Examinations Commission then.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0410/1129844-state-exams-coronavirus/

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1248631748839329797?s=20

randylonghorn

Darc19 wrote: »

Oh God, the snowflakes won't know what to do.

God help them when they have a real crisis in life.

Easy, please.

I don't agree with Nax either, but this is the LC forum, not AH, and the man is entitled to voice his opinion provided he does it within forum rules, which he has.

I guarantee that there are plenty of other LC students out there ranting right now, just didn't jump in here to do it (yet anyway).

Notmything

Is that your own YouTube channel? so basically this thread is for you to get extra views

Darc19

Oh God, the snowflakes won't know what to do.

God help them when they have a real crisis in life.

is_that_so

A YouTube rant is evidence of this?

byhookorbycrook

What alternative do you suggest ?

spurious

What do you want? No exam?
It's postponed a bit. Not the end of the world.

naxmax9

https://youtu.be/vZEEB_jG9qQ

Absolutely Ridiculous

randylonghorn

Lc2020 wrote: »

1. The budget is released in October, your ignorance is telling

Actually, it's your ignorance, self-absorption and bad manners which are shouting off the screen right now.

Formal warning: pull your horns in a bit or you will be taking a holiday from this forum too. - MOD

Lc2020 wrote: »

Ireland will, contrary to your highly professional opinion, recover from this no problem.

No affected country will recover from this "no problem". As RBT pointed out, a lot of money is being re-directed to dealing with this crisis (rightly), and a lot more will be directed to those worst hit when we get to the recovery phase.

This will have to come from somewhere.

slipperyox

Lc2020 wrote: »

Tell that to the thousands of students whose very lives centred on these exams for the past two years.
The government cannot and will not cancel the leaving cert exams and have prediticted grades in lieu of state exams, such a system isn't viable in a country like Ireland.

So you want to replace the leaving cert with an entrance exam? On what? Will this be based on innate talent or would students have stimulus material to study? If such an exam can be facilitated then I don't know why the leaving cert can't

And the solution you have is?

rainbowtrout

Lc2020 wrote: »

1. The budget is released in October, your ignorance is telling
2. You really have your priorities straight (not)

To you and the poster above, the last thing we need right now is people going around saying a recession is on the horizon. Ireland will, contrary to your highly professional opinion, recover from this no problem.

Wow, the vitriol in your post is jumping off the screen.

As I'm quite a bit older than you, quite a number of our budgets were announced in December, it's only in recent years it's moved to October. The point still stands.

It has nothing to do with my priorities. I said nothing about a recession in my post, you just decided to attribute that to me for no reason whatsoever but to get a dig in. There is a reality that when the country comes out of this crisis, that the money borrowed to support those that were unemployed, to keep people receiving a wage, to support businesses that had to close, to pump money into the health service, has to come from somewhere. It doesn't grow on trees. So when the budget is announced we will have to pay higher taxes, there will be levies, there won't be extra given to the pension or to social welfare or the children's allowance. And that's fine. I support what the government are currently doing to curb the spread of the virus and support the people of this country. But it is not incorrect to say that it will have to be paid for somehow.

I also never said it was my highly professional opinion, you said that. The last recession was 12 years ago. You were probably in senior infants. I was watching my friends lose their jobs, emigrate to Australia, taking a pay cut, paying a pension levy that I'm still paying 12 years later, and will probably be paying until I retire. Some of the businesses that closed last week or this week will not open again, they won't be able to. Ireland will recover in time, as will other countries, but it won't happen overnight.

Now maybe you would be better occupied studying for your Leaving Cert rather than trying to score points off teachers online. You might have knowledge, but you are seriously lacking in wisdom.

Lc2020

slipperyox wrote: »

Why not just forget about it?
Its not important.

Tell that to the thousands of students whose very lives centred on these exams for the past two years.
The government cannot and will not cancel the leaving cert exams and have prediticted grades in lieu of state exams, such a system isn't viable in a country like Ireland.

So you want to replace the leaving cert with an entrance exam? On what? Will this be based on innate talent or would students have stimulus material to study? If such an exam can be facilitated then I don't know why the leaving cert can't

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Budget is not going to be pleasant in December that's for sure.

1. The budget is released in October, your ignorance is telling
2. You really have your priorities straight (not)

To you and the poster above, the last thing we need right now is people going around saying a recession is on the horizon. Ireland will, contrary to your highly professional opinion, recover from this no problem.

slipperyox

Why not just forget about it?
Its not important.

Students Pick 4 courses, Let colleges do their own entrance exam in September/October. Combine with hpat if needed.

spurious

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Could happen. There's also nothing to say that other buildings couldn't be taken into use for exams and hire more examiners to allow the JC to run. E.g. every small village and town has a community hall/centre of some description. There's no real reason that buildings like this couldn't be used for exams. The building generally isn't the issue, it's the need for examiners.

True. Running the JC does not take anything from the LC setup. They are separate. No reason why it could not run, albeit delayed. A fair amount has already been spent on it as it is.

rainbowtrout

reg114 wrote: »

Very possible that the leaving cert would sit in August with a view to processing all tests and offers ahead of the academic year, it will be an extremely tight turnaround but on the positive side, accommodation should be more accessible to students because at that stage we will be deep into a recession sadly.

Budget is not going to be pleasant in December that's for sure.

reg114

Very possible that the leaving cert would sit in August with a view to processing all tests and offers ahead of the academic year, it will be an extremely tight turnaround but on the positive side, accommodation should be more accessible to students because at that stage we will be deep into a recession sadly.

rainbowtrout

landofthetree wrote: »

Cancel the Junior Cert.

Double the spacing in exam halls?

Could happen. There's also nothing to say that other buildings couldn't be taken into use for exams and hire more examiners to allow the JC to run. E.g. every small village and town has a community hall/centre of some description. There's no real reason that buildings like this couldn't be used for exams. The building generally isn't the issue, it's the need for examiners.

landofthetree

Cancel the Junior Cert.

Double the spacing in exam halls?

dartboardio

I'm not doing my leaving certificate this year, but returning to college. Was just wondering what would happen if the entire academic year of college was cancelled or if that was possible!

MathsNerd78

rainbowtrout wrote: »

We teach a variety of subjects in school, the Leaving Cert tests students knowledge and skills in those areas. That is the point of the Leaving Cert. It is not a test of interpersonal or organisational skills.

Thank you! You have just re-iterated my point i.e. the Leaving Cert tests a narrow range of knowledge and skills. That is why it needs to change.

Also, you confirmed my point about a predominantly white workforce. I was referring to effect rather than cause. But on further reflection, other professions have managed to attract a variety of races and ethnicities, so why not teaching?

Descending into family anecdote doesn’t help your credibility. However, coming from a family with two working parents puts you well above the median socio-economic status.

rainbowtrout

MathsNerd78 wrote: »

My mistake on Music, although I think it was unnecessary to cancel all practical exams.

You can go down the road of making ridiculous comparisons to the Olympics if you like. Athletes are continually assessed through a variety of high-stakes competitions every year. The Olympics just happens to be the biggest one in the four-year cycle.

When it comes to the Leaving Certificate, having a heavy reliance on a terminal exam suits only a small proportion of students, favoring those with good memories and the ability to write clearly and cogently under stress. It gives absolutely no indication of a person’s abilities in other areas, such as interpersonal or organisational skills. It is skewed by effectively being a college entrance test, even though many young people do not go on to third level. It has spawned a vast grinds industry, which favours disproportionately those with enough income to afford help.

If you look at the profile of our teaching community, it is comprised almost entirely of white, middle class individuals, many of whom do an exceptionally good job. However, the vast majority of teachers could be considered to be among the cohort for whom the terminal exam was a good fit. A high proportion of teachers have a very limited understanding of the problems faced by working class families. I have spoken to many HSCL teachers who have had their eyes opened by visiting families in their catchment area and seeing, at first hand, the challenges faced by families on the fringes of society. The fact that their children make it to the door of the school in the morning is a huge achievement in itself. This will never be reflected in the student’s performance in a terminal exam.

If we are serious about tackling social disadvantage then we need to look at the exam system and overhaul it in its entirety. The will is there among policy makers but that’s not enough. There has to be an openness to change on the front line.

It wasn't a ridiculous comparison. You said it your previous post that it's a flawed system based on a terminal exam and this situation has highlighted it. This situation is a once in a lifetime event. It doesn't mean that the system is flawed, it means that a postponement, cancellation or change to how it's going to run needs to happen this year.

And your comment about white middle class people is completely ridiculous. Until 15 years ago, the vast majority of this country was white, and Irish by nationality. We had few people of any other nationality in this country, therefore you are not going to have a multicultural teaching staff if you don't have a multicultural population. I am not what I would consider middle class. My father was a tradesman. My mother was a sales assistant. I'm not the only teacher who has a background like that.

Teachers are well tuned in to the hardships faced by students, we deal with them every day. Schools (particularly disadvantaged schools) have breakfast clubs to ensure kids are getting one decent meal in the day at minimum.

We teach a variety of subjects in school, the Leaving Cert tests students knowledge and skills in those areas. That is the point of the Leaving Cert. It is not a test of interpersonal or organisational skills.

fakharon

dartboardio wrote: »

If they cancel or postpone the leaving cert. How will the college academic year work?

Most people going to college in September will be just after leaving cert.

Are they gonna defer an entire year of college until the next September?

That would be crazy!

Hi, it’s an unfortunate time. Especially for you guys sitting this year. If things get worse, I believe that you may have to repeat the year again. They may also defer the whole year of college
Perhaps, they may also consider passing everyone. That would be unfair of course.
I’m asking the same question. I’m a repeat. Sitting my exam in 2021, externally.
My way of looking at it is philosophical but it holds very true. Life is Uncertainty. The future is uncertain. Your plans may not come to reality. However, that doesn’t matter does it? There is nothing you can do about it. “Wait, what’s the point of studying right now if I’m not even sure of the upcoming exams this year?” There is a possibility of the leaving cert this year, right? And since you are uncertain of college and the exam in June, why consider asking the former? Why waste your time on uncertainty? When you could be studying right now until further notice. If exams get cancelled this year, it’s not the end. You’ll get an opportunity to become better and stronger in your work. And you won’t be considered a repeat. You’ll get an advantage from the universe in a long time. So keep studying until informed regarding cancellation.
I wish you the best and may the exams commence as stated. You the man!

dartboardio

If they cancel or postpone the leaving cert. How will the college academic year work?

Most people going to college in September will be just after leaving cert.

Are they gonna defer an entire year of college until the next September?

That would be crazy!

MathsNerd78

My mistake on Music, although I think it was unnecessary to cancel all practical exams.

You can go down the road of making ridiculous comparisons to the Olympics if you like. Athletes are continually assessed through a variety of high-stakes competitions every year. The Olympics just happens to be the biggest one in the four-year cycle.

When it comes to the Leaving Certificate, having a heavy reliance on a terminal exam suits only a small proportion of students, favoring those with good memories and the ability to write clearly and cogently under stress. It gives absolutely no indication of a person’s abilities in other areas, such as interpersonal or organisational skills. It is skewed by effectively being a college entrance test, even though many young people do not go on to third level. It has spawned a vast grinds industry, which favours disproportionately those with enough income to afford help.

If you look at the profile of our teaching community, it is comprised almost entirely of white, middle class individuals, many of whom do an exceptionally good job. However, the vast majority of teachers could be considered to be among the cohort for whom the terminal exam was a good fit. A high proportion of teachers have a very limited understanding of the problems faced by working class families. I have spoken to many HSCL teachers who have had their eyes opened by visiting families in their catchment area and seeing, at first hand, the challenges faced by families on the fringes of society. The fact that their children make it to the door of the school in the morning is a huge achievement in itself. This will never be reflected in the student’s performance in a terminal exam.

If we are serious about tackling social disadvantage then we need to look at the exam system and overhaul it in its entirety. The will is there among policy makers but that’s not enough. There has to be an openness to change on the front line.

rainbowtrout

MathsNerd78 wrote: »

Using mock exams is a complete non-runner for a number of reasons:
1. Not all schools do mock exams. The more enlightened schools have gotten rid of mock exams in favour of more class-contact.
2. Mock exam papers are compiled by private companies, vary dramatically in standard and often have significant flaws.
3. Mock exams are marked by unqualified and low-paid individuals resulting in a standard of marking that ranges dramatically in quality.

What this crisis has exposed is a major flaw in our reliance on the terminal examination. Moves to more continuous assessment are hampered by a traditional view of assessment that is prevalent among many practitioners and teacher unions.

With regard to how it might work, there will be a need to accept that the full assessment will not be possible. There are certain practical elements that will need to be assessed e.g. Music. However, with regard to the written papers, it is likely that they could go ahead as planned or with a slight delay. Larger, more spread-out exam centres may be required in order to facilitate social distancing. This will pose supervision issues. However, by drafting in civil servants through temporary re-deployment, this issue could be addressed.

The music practicals were cancelled last week.

I wouldn't agree on our reliance on the terminal examination. The current situation is unprecedented. Lots of things have had to be cancelled or postponed. As has been in the news for the last two days, it is increasingly likely that there will be no Olympics this year. That isn't a major flaw on the reliance on having it every four years though.

MathsNerd78

Using mock exams is a complete non-runner for a number of reasons:
1. Not all schools do mock exams. The more enlightened schools have gotten rid of mock exams in favour of more class-contact.
2. Mock exam papers are compiled by private companies, vary dramatically in standard and often have significant flaws.
3. Mock exams are marked by unqualified and low-paid individuals resulting in a standard of marking that ranges dramatically in quality.

What this crisis has exposed is a major flaw in our reliance on the terminal examination. Moves to more continuous assessment are hampered by a traditional view of assessment that is prevalent among many practitioners and teacher unions.

With regard to how it might work, there will be a need to accept that the full assessment will not be possible. There are certain practical elements that will need to be assessed e.g. Music. However, with regard to the written papers, it is likely that they could go ahead as planned or with a slight delay. Larger, more spread-out exam centres may be required in order to facilitate social distancing. This will pose supervision issues. However, by drafting in civil servants through temporary re-deployment, this issue could be addressed.

dartboardio

postponed until september/oct maybe.

zeebre12

But surely a lot wouldn't even have the course covered yet like honours Maths? I don't see how it can work? No proper contact from your teacher for months? Even projects and things getting finished.

Millionaire only not

Kobe2020 wrote: »

Please don’t let it be based on mocks
Most people had the papers weeks before the exams.
There could be exams in June with 10 kids in a supervised classroom? 2 meters apart?

Borris that said there results maybe based on past results ! Whatever that would mean but no a levels ths year it seems .