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S2S Cycleway - northside

mrcheez

According to http://www.clontarf.ie/news/s2s-cycleway-information-meeting works must begin before the summer as otherwise it'll be shelved for another year.

So by my reckoning we should start to see some builders in the area in the next month or so.

Anyone got an update on whether this is starting this year?

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brocbrocach

The lack of consideration and sense on the lane is getting to me now, been on it 3 times in the last few days. It really is too full for people to be doing intense efforts or pbs.

mrcheez

expectationlost wrote: »

pass by today and they've put 4 solid poles along the same line of the wall...

the amount of redoing of cycling infrastructure..

car could probably squeeze in either side

Spotted that, thought my eyes were deceiving me.

You can still see the old pole positions too. Mad how they considered that ok at the time.

expectationlost

mrcheez wrote: »

yes and they've put them smack bang in the middle of the cycle lane. Would it have been so hard to put them in line with the wall?

pass by today and they've put 4 solid poles along the same line of the wall...

the amount of redoing of cycling infrastructure.. and initially had put in just 2 flexiwands https://twitter.com/DublinPedaller/status/1241015361857826817 ET5FSvRXgAA7hQm?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

ET5FSvRXgAA7hQm?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

car could probably squeeze in either side

expectationlost

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/big-flaws-in-these-plans-new-clontarf-flood-defences-selected-1.4209295 *groan*

https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=141&MId=3965&Ver=4
lack of public info as usual

Stark

Got to protect those pedestrians from the "real danger" :rolleyes:

mrcheez

Raam wrote: »

Even when thinking of cyclists, no one thinks of cyclists.

afaik they were thinking of pedestrians... hence why they are nowhere near pedestrian paths either side of the bike path

Raam

mrcheez wrote: »

yes and they've put them smack bang in the middle of the cycle lane. Would it have been so hard to put them in line with the wall?

Even when thinking of cyclists, no one thinks of cyclists.

mrcheez

expectationlost wrote: »

see they've put 4 flexible wands across the entrance to the kilbarrack road, i'll put up a photo later if you want, not sure how water works vehicles will access then now, they don't look easily detachable.

yes and they've put them smack bang in the middle of the cycle lane. Would it have been so hard to put them in line with the wall?

site_owner

you can fit a van thru on the right. seems to be only designed to avoid driver error, not stop anyone determined to get on.

https://twitter.com/AlanDub13/status/1241693485473902592?s=20

Raam

expectationlost wrote: »

see they've put 4 flexible wands across the entrance to the kilbarrack road, i'll put up a photo later if you want, not sure how water works vehicles will access then now, they don't look easily detachable.

Now cyclists get to cycle into them in the dark instead. :pac:

expectationlost

see they've put 4 flexible wands across the entrance to the kilbarrack road, i'll put up a photo later if you want, not sure how water works vehicles will access then now, they don't look easily detachable.

expectationlost

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The planning drawings have finally been uploaded for the proposed alterations at the Baths and can be seen at the above link. Looks like the cyclepath is 3.0m wide. I presume the kink at the entrance is to allow cars to fully pull in off the road/bus-lane before .

and to slow those nasty speeding cyclist? I'd prefer to have a straight run, there isn't much conflict with cars driving in and out, its the cars parked on the cycle lane thats the problem and there still isn't anything physically stop them parking beyond the outlined parking spaces at either end there.

was out for cycling along here today much busier then usual even for a Sunday more cars on the road too

Mercian Pro

I have a fair bit of experience in making observations on planning applications and in appeals to Bord Pleanala and in reading the Inspector's Reports subsequently.

There is a reasonable summary of the process at https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/commenting_on_planning_application.html

You will see that the fee for making an objection or obsevation is €20. Many planning authorities now offer an online system for lodging applications and for making observations. The planning authority may only consider observations/objections relating to planning issues and not those based on personal dislikes, grievances or opinions. All valid observations go on the public record and can be viewed online usually a few days after they are submitted.

Planning Inspectors' reports generally group and summarise the issues raised in submissions and assess these based on objectives in the Development Plan, Local Area Plans and National Policies. Whether a valid issue is raised by one objector or by many doesn't seem to matter very much. The Inspector will also consider technical reports on the application prepared by the various sections within the Local Authority and it is likely, in this case, that the report of the Enivonment & Transportation section will be critical.

If all that sounds a bit off-putting, if you feel strongly that something shouldn't go ahead or should be modified, by all means object. I have seen cases where multiple well presented observations were rejected but a single badly composed hand-written note from a neighbour has resulted in an application being refused. Objecting at this stage also allows you to appeal the decision to Bord Pleanala if permission is granted by DCC.

brocbrocach

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The planning drawings have finally been uploaded for the proposed alterations at the Baths and can be seen at the above link. Looks like the cyclepath is 3.0m wide. I presume the kink at the entrance is to allow cars to fully pull in off the road/bus-lane before (hopefully) checking for crossing cyclists. Signs here and at the exit indicating that cyclists have right of way would be a useful addition.

I haven't measured it on the ground but 3m seems too much for the path as is and isn't commensurate to the other distances in the drawings. I doubt the path is seven/eight feet at most points. Is that accurate?
Apart from that, I don't want to spend 30e to fall at the first technical hurdle. Is there a solid ground for appealing does anyone know? Can someone with a background in the sector give us an effective grounds for a mass or individual appeal (it's a disgrace but tell us why in language that will work).
Unfortunately, a random assortment of people railing against injustice won't make headway against a professional, well-connected machine without some organization. I'd appreciate any informed guidance on how to maximise our voice because i'd really, really like it if the cyclists didn't lose this time.

Ferris

They need a similar facility on the exit. Cars trying to exit across the cycleway / path / buslane and two lanes of traffic is an accident waiting to happen. They should go to one decent entry / exit with the cycleway moved away from the road

Mercian Pro

Mercian Pro wrote: »

The planning reference number is 2355/20 and objections can be made up to 31 March. No drawings online yet but they should be uploaded soon.
http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=2355/20&theTabNo=1&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=4644991%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=5402042%26StartIndex=11%26SortOrder=APNID:DESC%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=4644991%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

The planning drawings have finally been uploaded for the proposed alterations at the Baths and can be seen at the above link. Looks like the cyclepath is 3.0m wide. I presume the kink at the entrance is to allow cars to fully pull in off the road/bus-lane before (hopefully) checking for crossing cyclists. Signs here and at the exit indicating that cyclists have right of way would be a useful addition.

mr spuckler

Leroy42 wrote: »

There are a number of reasons. If a cyclist is taking a turn off the Clontarf Road it makes little sense to cycle on the path, then stop and wait for a break in traffic.

Depending on the time of day, the cyclepath can be full of walkers, joggers, kids on bikes, people standing on it waiting for buses etc. At times it is simply safer, and quicker, to use the road.

Group of cyclists. If the group is large, it can sometimes, although it would appear the opposite, safer to be on the road.

Access and egress points. Say I join from Hollybrook Road and want to turn onto Laurences Road, it makes no sense to cross over 4 lanes of traffic, cross the grass, join the cycletrack, then get back off and recross 4 more lanes.

You and your sensible answers :pac:

Leroy42

garrettod wrote: »

Why am I regularly seeing cyclists on the actual Clontarf Road, or up on the footpath across the road from the side where the cycle lane is?

Am I missing something here, that explains why people are cycling, but not using the cycle lane?

There are a number of reasons. If a cyclist is taking a turn off the Clontarf Road it makes little sense to cycle on the path, then stop and wait for a break in traffic.

Depending on the time of day, the cyclepath can be full of walkers, joggers, kids on bikes, people standing on it waiting for buses etc. At times it is simply safer, and quicker, to use the road.

Group of cyclists. If the group is large, it can sometimes, although it would appear the opposite, safer to be on the road.

Access and egress points. Say I join from Hollybrook Road and want to turn onto Laurences Road, it makes no sense to cross over 4 lanes of traffic, cross the grass, join the cycletrack, then get back off and recross 4 more lanes.

Effects

RobertFoster wrote: »

How come people are driving near the M50 but not actually on the M50?

I think it's because there aren't any footpaths on the M50 to drive their cars on.

RobertFoster

How come people are driving near the M50 but not actually on the M50? It's a perfectly good motorway, paid for by the tax payers...

brocbrocach

I've asked them and they tell me it's because they have a bad attitude. They hate the Law. They love breakin the rules.

garrettod

Why am I regularly seeing cyclists on the actual Clontarf Road, or up on the footpath across the road from the side where the cycle lane is?

Am I missing something here, that explains why people are cycling, but not using the cycle lane?

neris

magicbastarder wrote: »

why are there three entrances to car parks opposite the bus depot? one is obviously for dublin bus staff, but are the other two public parking? if so, why two?

Public parking and there's a slip way used there by the yacht club

magicbastarder

why are there three entrances to car parks opposite the bus depot? one is obviously for dublin bus staff, but are the other two public parking? if so, why two?

BrianHenryIE

mrcheez wrote: »

What are the bets they stick a hazardous sign right smack in the middle of that cycle lane kink as they did opposite the bus depot ?

I maybe mentioned it in this thread before, but a friend of mine's collarbone was broken after he hit one of those poles at the bus garage.

Effects

Cionn wrote: »

It's on us too if we do nothing about it. They are completely dodgy there, no concerns about breeching planning. Again we have a choice to do something or nothing

Loads of people have no problems with breaching planning regulations.

Construction professionals see no problem with breaking the rules when you are allowed to apply retrospectively for permission, often with a better chance of getting it. They blame the system.

Cionn

Effects wrote: »

The only thing that matters at the baths is getting as many customers in as possible, not safety.

It's on us too if we do nothing about it. They are completely dodgy there, no concerns about breeching planning. Again we have a choice to do something or nothing

Effects

Cionn wrote: »

I see the access points at The Baths in Clontarf as a massive concern personally, I have been nearly been taken out there a number of times. Perhaps its time to consider the next level of safety for the pedestrian and cycle users.

The only thing that matters at the baths is getting as many customers in as possible, not safety.

Cionn

I do not want to speculate on this tragedy as its horrendous for the family. I wonder if now we should bring the question about vehicular access to the pathway (not just in raheny/kilbarrack) to the fore. The council should be the only vehicular access to these areas and the access points are not too many, and could be controlled e.g. via ram bar type devices.

I see the access points at The Baths in Clontarf as a massive concern personally, I have been nearly been taken out there a number of times. Perhaps its time to consider the next level of safety for the pedestrian and cycle users.

LennoxR

I'm just amazed there weren't more casualties if the van drove on that path for 1 km. Horrendous news. RIP to the poor woman and condolences to her family.