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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

This thread is a continuation of the megathreads for discussing the presidency of Donald Trump and any matters which relate to this.

Please keep discussion civil and constructive and bear the charter in mind before posting.

Update 16/5/20:

Threadbanned users:

Outlaw Pete
everlast75
mcmoustache
BonnieSituation

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aloyisious

Headshot wrote: »

You have to feel sorry for Dr. Fauci, the man comes across so well and obviously knows what he's doing but he has to put up the Trump administration and especially Trump himself and must be hitting his head of a table constantly with frustration

Watching the news briefing, Dr Fauci standing behind Don shifting around & a lot of looking at the ground and scratching his neck, he's a very patient man. He knows that if he leaves in frustration, Don will appoint a Yes man in his place.

eire4

Water John wrote: »

If you want to see the leadership look at Andrew Cuomo Gov NY press conference each day. You weep at knowing how the leadership deficit in the WH.

On price gouging, Rising Pharma doubled the price of Chloroquine when the Chinese started trying it Covid 19 patients.
Cuomo said N 95 masks used to cost 80 cent. They are now $4.

Without a doubt if only one of the governors of Illinois California or New York was leading the way from the white house. I said it way back when if a real national emergency ever hits the US run for the hills because it will be a disaster with this regime in charge and we are seeing that unfold before our very eyes. What makes this worse this is not a national emergency this is a world emergency.

marno21

Thank heavens for Dr. Fauci. He was on Anderson Cooper 360 there for an hour this evening providing answers to viewers questions clearly. Of course only a small proportion of the viewership will see it.

https://twitter.com/HowardMortman/status/1241494707919892486

Speaks for itself.

Runaways

That’s the biggest most screeching tyres 180 in all political history

Wtf is his game?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1220818115354923009?s=21

everlast75

Runaways wrote: »

That’s the biggest most screeching tyres 180 in all political history

Wtf is his game?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1220818115354923009?s=21

The sole motive for him, as far as I can see, is that the markets *must not* be spooked. He does not give one sh1t about anything else.

That explains why he firstly praised China (so people wouldn't freak out), then he lied to the public when it started to get attention, to why he didn't want to have the numbers increased by letting those people off that boat, to why he attacks any journalist that asks a tough question, to why he blatantly contradicts his own professionals advising the public.

The economy was his sole re-election tactic (pssst! Don't point out that he inherited from Obama and spiked the deficit while in office). He signed stock market results and posted to people ffs.

You can see the narrative has now changed btw. The blame game has started. This is now why he is calling it the Chinese virus, criticising China, the journalists reporting the truth of course gets his ire, the governors, the previous administrations. Everyone- *apart from him*.

Runaways

He’s clearly demented.

I can’t wait to see his defenders explain the above tweet.

No doubt they’ll manage it though.

Runaways

And he’s an anti vaccer. Who would have thought

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/449525268529815552?s=21

duploelabs

Runaways wrote: »

That’s the biggest most screeching tyres 180 in all political history

Wtf is his game?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1220818115354923009?s=21

It's from January before it hit the states so hard and he needed to deflect

Runaways

duploelabs wrote: »

It's from January before it hit the states so hard and he needed to deflect

Ah. I had just woken up didn’t spot the date. Thanks

Still tho

Quin_Dub

His narcissism and insecurity are the problem here.

He simply can't allow himself to admit that he isn't the smartest guy in the room on any subject (even though he also certainly is never the smartest guy in the room, regardless of the topic). He also cannot allow the chance that someone else might " Steal the limelight".

Leadership would be saying something like " Guys, I'm a real estate guy, this is not my area. I'm taking the advice of the experts here, let me get Dr Fauci or however to handle those questions".

But he can't do that, so you get him trying to suggest that he knows something that the experts don't because he's a 'smart guy' and he had an uncle that was a professor.

Up to now, his insecure narcissism has just lost people money, now it's going to cost people their lives.

And, in terms of the whole " But he stopped travel from China" as assume kind of evidence that he was taking this seriously.

He did it because he felt it was politically beneficial to him, not for public health reasons.

Does anyone think that if this had started in Saudi or Israel that he'd have called for a travel ban??

salmocab

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Leadership would be saying something like " Guys, I'm a real estate guy, this is not my area. I'm taking the advice of the experts here, let me get Dr Fauci or however to handle those questions".

I said this a while ago, he could have had a win on this based on saying look I’m bringing in actual experts to take care of this and then just releasing funding and staying on point with what he’s told by the experts but he just can’t do that and wants to make people and importantly himself believe he’s doing a good job. Nobody thought it getting to America was his fault but he’s managed to wrestle the blame for the spread onto himself.

rossie1977

Andrew Cuomo coming across as the real US leader during this crisis

Cody montana

rossie1977 wrote: »

Andrew Cuomo coming across as the real US leader during this crisis

Trump is not a leader, he’s a narcissistic liar.

It’s strange seeing some leadership coming from the USA.
There are still some adults left in the room.

Manic Moran

Good news for those of us who owe federal taxes (I owe about $8k), they're giving us three more months before we have to start paying up.

Andrew Cuomo coming across as the real US leader during this crisis

Cuomo, Newsom and Dewine are all receiving praise, though the first two are also some of the harder-hit and are more likely to be up front in the news cycle.

Although it's not important right now, there have been some investigations started as to how prepared the States were. (Remember, there are fifty-something Depts of Health in the US) and how they have been responding. https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-subcommittee-examines-states-preparedness-responses-covid-19-outbreak indicates New Jersey and Mississippi have been doing notably well. However, their populations and numbers of cases are far smaller than NY, CA and OH, so one doesn't hear much about Muprhy and Reeves, for example. Texas traditionally relies on local governments to take lead on disasters with the States in a supporting role (Arguably the same situation should apply between the States and the Federal Government), Abbott has broken with history to take central control in this instance.

Leroy42

It is weird that in a country that places such importance on defence and enemies, including chemical attack, that it appears so woefully unprepared.

They appear almost totally dependent on the private sector.

Igotadose

Manic Moran wrote: »

Although it's not important right now, there have been some investigations started as to how prepared the States were. (Remember, there are fifty-something Depts of Health in the US) and how they have been responding. https://www.lawfareblog.com/house-subcommittee-examines-states-preparedness-responses-covid-19-outbreak indicates New Jersey and Mississippi have been doing notably well. However, their populations and numbers of cases are far smaller than NY, CA and OH, so one doesn't hear much about Muprhy and Reeves, for example. Texas traditionally relies on local governments to take lead on disasters with the States in a supporting role (Arguably the same situation should apply between the States and the Federal Government), Abbott has broken with history to take central control in this instance.

FWIW, New Jersey (my old stomping grounds) is 8.9 million people (so, roughly 2x Ireland in a much smaller area) and Ohio is around 11 million, so Ohio's not "much" larger than NJ, and it's less densely crowded.

From my local NJ contacts, it seems like it's 'under control' insofar as people are listening to the authorities. NJ has an enormous police presence, probably due mostly to awful traffic on overcrowded roads. They've just announced 'stay at home' lockdown for the state, so we'll see how it does. There are many hospitals and a strong medical ethic in the state, so as long as the societal wheels don't come off I'd expect it to do about average to better than average for the US.

It's a fairly wealthy state as it's mostly suburban communities for NYC in the North and Philadelphia in the South. Its own big cities are pretty bad for crime and poverty, Newark, Trenton and Camden are pretty ugly places.

everlast75

Shot...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1162356?__twitter_impression=true

Chaser...

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1241782952222052352?s=19

Am I doing this right?

eire4

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is weird that in a country that places such importance on defence and enemies, including chemical attack, that it appears so woefully unprepared.

They appear almost totally dependent on the private sector.

That is the joys of Milton Freidman's disaster capitalism for you. You have to have for profit health care which means you don't stockpile items like ventilators, masks etc because you don't make money that way.

amandstu

eire4 wrote: »

That is the joys of Milton Freidman's disaster capitalism for you. You have to have for profit health care which means you don't stockpile items like ventilators, masks etc because you don't make money that way.

I expect we can compare the various different socio political and health systems across the different political regions when this present crisis is further along.

It will be an interesting discussion I expect.

Leroy42

amandstu wrote: »

I expect we can compare the various different socio political and health systems across the different political regions when this present crisis is further along.

It will be an interesting discussion I expect.

But that's not what I am getting at. How can a country that spends 754bn on its military each year, not have any supplies of gowns, masks, hell even gas masks for almost everyone?

Its has taken them weeks, even since Trump actually started to pay attention, to get anywhere on this.

The US are being shown to be fatally flawed. Sure you can argue about Italy etc, but this is supposed to be the greatest country in the world yet it is looking like it has no plan, no ability, to mitigate the worst effects.

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

But that's not what I am getting at. How can a country that spends 754bn on its military each year, not have any supplies of gowns, masks, hell even gas masks for almost everyone?

Its has taken them weeks, even since Trump actually started to pay attention, to get anywhere on this.

The US are being shown to be fatally flawed. Sure you can argue about Italy etc, but this is supposed to be the greatest country in the world yet it is looking like it has no plan, no ability, to mitigate the worst effects.

That argument about the military expenditure doesn't really work out as the feds only control a certain amount of the country's healthcare infrastructure: Mainly that relating to the military. Quarantine for international civilian arrivals suspected of infection is at Lackland Air Force Base here in San Antonio, for example, and immigration/border protection is a federal function. The defense budgets from California and New York are much smaller in comparison to healthcare expenditure: California Dept of Health received a $3.2bn budget, the California Military Dept budget is about $149nm. New York put $157mn into its military budget, $1.6bn into its health budget.

That said, this link from a month ago is interesting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-preparation-united-states.html

I suspect most of the 'failing' that the US is having compared to the rest of the world actually relates to Trump's press conferences.

eire4

Leroy42 wrote: »

But that's not what I am getting at. How can a country that spends 754bn on its military each year, not have any supplies of gowns, masks, hell even gas masks for almost everyone?

Its has taken them weeks, even since Trump actually started to pay attention, to get anywhere on this.

The US are being shown to be fatally flawed. Sure you can argue about Italy etc, but this is supposed to be the greatest country in the world yet it is looking like it has no plan, no ability, to mitigate the worst effects.

The Americans constantly use phrases like "leader of the free world" "greatest democracy in the world" but they are merely empty phrases which say more about their own hubris then anything that is actually based in reality.

The reality is they are a country that is utterly devoted to and dominated politically and economically by the ideology of Milton Friedman's disaster capitalism and their for profit health care system is a classic example of that mentality. You cannot make money stock pilling crucial medical equipment and supplies that would be needed in a pandemic so it does not happen simple as that.

greenfield21

eire4 wrote: »

That is the joys of Milton Freidman's disaster capitalism for you. You have to have for profit health care which means you don't stockpile items like ventilators, masks etc because you don't make money that way.

Well when the service sector makes up 80% of your gdp and the economy has ground to halt I don't think it's going to end well. Trump is now basically going to come in and bail out most of these companies, the majority of which are pure zombies who have been living of qe and low interest rates. It's completely unsustainable - they may aswell give the keys to china now.

Why not focus on the essential companies, then after this turn to manufacturing healthcare products in the states again and then get pharma and tech companies to pay their fair share too. But he already tried that and failed miserably.

coastwatch

Interesting article in the Guardian last weekend, suggesting the Trump administration will begin to look for scapegoats for the crisis, and may even look to postpone the November elections.
The author is clearly not a fan, and might be exaggerating, but it sounds plausible.
It also sounds like what you might expect from Putin!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/14/trump-may-exploit-coronavirus-crisis

Water John

Trump has the power, under the Act he signed a few days ago, which State Govnr's don't, to force the private sector to produce the goods that are needed by the Govn't. Instead he has requested them to do so and also they have offered. This means different purchasers competing for the limited production and ramping up the price.
Cuomo hardballed Trump on this today. Let's see does he react, esp considering the WH are keenly watching Cuomo's press conference every day.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Trump has the power, under the Act he signed a few days ago, which State Govnr's don't, to force the private sector to produce the goods that are needed by the Govn't. Instead he has requested them to do so and also they have offered. This means different purchasers competing for the limited production and ramping up the price.
Cuomo hardballed Trump on this today. Let's see does he react, esp considering the WH are keenly watching Cuomo's press conference every day.

I saw a report that trump is fuming over cuomo because his press conferences are talking away from trumps. It's probably the fact that governor cuomo is everything trump isn't in this time.

I've not listened back to the Sunday shows from today in the US yet. Anything of note that anyone has seen or heard ?

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

That argument about the military expenditure doesn't really work out as the feds only control a certain amount of the country's healthcare infrastructure: Mainly that relating to the military. Quarantine for international civilian arrivals suspected of infection is at Lackland Air Force Base here in San Antonio, for example, and immigration/border protection is a federal function. The defense budgets from California and New York are much smaller in comparison to healthcare expenditure: California Dept of Health received a $3.2bn budget, the California Military Dept budget is about $149nm. New York put $157mn into its military budget, $1.6bn into its health budget.

That said, this link from a month ago is interesting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-preparation-united-states.html

I suspect most of the 'failing' that the US is having compared to the rest of the world actually relates to Trump's press conferences.

Who cares? Do you think people really care that there are no masks because of a bureaucratic setup? (Sorry, that is not aimed at your comment, but to Joe Public they only care about the result)

People should be asking if the US can be so unprepared for something like this, given they had advance notice, how can they have any faith in their preparedness for something else?

The press conferences are just the very outward view but the lack of testing, the pictures from Spring Break etc and the fact that everyone knows that Trump is not the right person to be in charge of this give the reality.

Nobody is surprised about the press conferences, except that they are going ahead at all. Trump should stay out of it unless he can act professionally.

listermint

Leroy42 wrote: »

Who cares? Do you think people really care that there are no masks because of a bureaucratic setup?

People should be asking if the US can be so unprepared for something like this, given they had advance notice, how can they have any faith in their preparedness for something else?

The press conferences are just the very outward view but the lack of testing, the pictures from Spring Break etc and the fact that everyone knows that Trump is not the right person to be in charge of this give the reality.

Nobody is surprised about the press conferences, except that they are going ahead at all. Trump should stay out of it unless he can act professionally.

The greatest military power in the world being defeated by a microbe.

How's that for trillion dollar spend.

everlast75

listermint wrote: »

The greatest military power in the world being defeated by a microbe.

How's that for trillion dollar spend.

If they could round up the virus, fire it into orbit, Space Force (TM) could take it out....

eire4

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I saw a report that trump is fuming over cuomo because his press conferences are talking away from trumps. It's probably the fact that governor cuomo is everything trump isn't in this time.

I've not listened back to the Sunday shows from today in the US yet. Anything of note that anyone has seen or heard ?

I could believe that easily. It is always about him so the fact that you have Governor Cuomo acting positively and professionally and clearly doing his best for the health of the people of New York as compared to a charlatan and demagogue who makes everything even this pandemic all about him and what works best for him that contrast is always going to look very stark.