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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

BluntGuy

The new M20 motorway inbetween Cork and Limerick. I've heard that there are many people that feel it's rather unnecessary considering the traffic volume.

I personally believe if they're going to upgrade the N20 route, they may as well use the safest long-term solution, which of course is a direct motorway link. But what do you all think?

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Bass Reeves

Isambard wrote: »

i suspect covid19 will kill off the M20 for a good few years

I say that as well. It will ground a lot of other development as well

Cookiemunster

Isambard wrote: »

i suspect covid19 will kill off the M20 for a good few years

Ha, it was 8 years away from being opened before COVID-19. As there's no need for any significant investment for another 3-4 years there's no reason to can it yet.

serfboard

Isambard wrote: »

i suspect covid19 will kill off the M20 for a good few years

Funny enough, Covid-19 could actually bring forward the M20. After the immediate crisis is over, there will need to be a worldwide stimulus package to get the global economy growing again.

And what better stimulus package is there than infrastructure building?

Stark

The same could be said last recession though.

Idbatterim

serfboard wrote: »

Funny enough, Covid-19 could actually bring forward the M20. After the immediate crisis is over, there will need to be a worldwide stimulus package to get the global economy growing again.

And what better stimulus package is there than infrastructure building?

yeah that would make sense, hence they wont be doing it here! borrow the money for the likes of the rte obscenity and to fund wasters decades on welfare, the real important stuff. Why would you bother building when infrasturture isnt at breaking point, low tender prices and keeping thousands of skilled people in the country, who can work on the housing when things turn around? :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Isambard wrote: »

i suspect covid19 will kill off the M20 for a good few years

no, the government will kill it off. Its pocket change in the scheme of thigs, in fact its less than pocket change...

marno21

Stark wrote: »

The same could be said last recession though.

The measures employed to get us out the last time will not be available this time.

Bass Reeves

serfboard wrote: »

Funny enough, Covid-19 could actually bring forward the M20. After the immediate crisis is over, there will need to be a worldwide stimulus package to get the global economy growing again.

And what better stimulus package is there than infrastructure building?

In theory yes however planning and land purchase takes 2-4 years. Someone will be looking for a rare snail or bat to hold it up

Stark wrote: »

The same could be said last recession though.

marno21 wrote: »

The measures employed to get us out the last time will not be available this time.

Not quite this time we are in much better shape we have balanced the budget and may have the ability to borrow ourselves out of this one. As well we have the NAMA bonus, and there is a big red apple that could fall out of the sky.

spacetweek

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah that would make sense, hence they wont be doing it here! borrow the money for the likes of the rte obscenity and to fund wasters decades on welfare, the real important stuff.

Take it easy buddy.

Cork Trucker

https://twitter.com/donalhunt/status/1241405207671713797?s=21

lawrencesummers

Cork Trucker wrote: »

https://twitter.com/donalhunt/status/1241405207671713797?s=21

Those wires frighten the S out of me. They have absolutely no place in the middle of a road.

Isambard

there's rather less of them now by the looks. I'd say the solid concrete barriers would be just as deadly. Armco ftw, but too expensive perhaps?

lawrencesummers

Isambard wrote: »

there's rather less of them now by the looks. I'd say the solid concrete barriers would be just as deadly. Armco ftw, but too expensive perhaps?

Hit a concrete barrier and I’m sure it will hurt. But wires are for cutting.

lawrencesummers

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/eu-reviewing-wire-barriers-1.963624?mode=amp

Isambard

that's quite damning isn't it.

DumbBrunette

The article is from 2007 unfortunately.

Isambard wrote: »

that's quite damning isn't it.

Dats me

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah that would make sense, hence they wont be doing it here! borrow the money for the likes of the rte obscenity and to fund wasters decades on welfare, the real important stuff. Why would you bother building when infrasturture isnt at breaking point, low tender prices and keeping thousands of skilled people in the country, who can work on the housing when things turn around? :rolleyes:

Covid-19 is going to give us 400,000 "wasters on welfare", should their children be left to starve?

Most of the social protection budget goes on pensions - should over 65s survive on less than €240/week?

Check out this website and see where we should cut. People shouldn't have to read this sort of stuff on a forum about a motorway when hundreds of thousands of families went through very tough times in the last recession.

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

JCX BXC

Dats me wrote: »

Covid-19 is going to give us 400,000 "wasters on welfare", should their children be left to starve?

1). He did specify decades on welfare, a big difference, however twist things as you wish.

2). Absolutely nothing to do with the M20, not even close.

marno21

MOD: While discussion of the covid-19 outbreak's economic ramifications directly relating to the M20 is allowed here within reason, I have told people before that discussion of welfare and people on welfare is not on here.

Welfare is not the reason we are still on about the road going ahead here and it will never be.

Idbatterim

I’ll move from welfare. Two years of the rte budget = m20. Totally obscene

lawrencesummers

DumbBrunette wrote: »

The article is from 2007 unfortunately.

Which makes it worse when you consider how long ago those countries monetioned removed wire barriers.

Cork Trucker

Let’s not forget that contractors installed new wire in 15/16

Dats me

Idbatterim wrote: »

I’ll move from welfare. Two years of the rte budget = m20. Totally obscene

When you can borrow at 0.25% I don't think there's an excuse for not going ahead with any important capital projects. Again I'd say RTÉ has proven itself as being worthwhile with the virus, but very off topic.

How much do people think the M20 will cost anyway? The Westport-Castebar dual carriageway announced last year is 20km long and costing €241m or €22m/km. The M20 will probably be more expensive because it's a motorway, say at least €25m/km? If we say 100km long (other posters will know better if this is accurate) that's 100 * 25 = €2500m or €2.5bn for the M20.

That's huge money really. The govt seems to have underestimated the cost of nearly every major project in the development plan. I'd have to say at that price that €1bn for the Cork Luas would be a better project?

DumbBrunette

N5 W-T is 25km in total, so 9.6m per km. M20 excluding Cork NRR would be about 80-90km depending on route selected.

Even allowing for higher costs of motorway, M20 should come in around the 1bn mark. There's no chance it would be anywhere near 2.5bn.

Dats me wrote: »

When you can borrow at 0.25% I don't think there's an excuse for not going ahead with any important capital projects. Again I'd say RTÉ has proven itself as being worthwhile with the virus, but very off topic.

How much do people think the M20 will cost anyway? The Westport-Castebar dual carriageway announced last year is 20km long and costing €241m or €22m/km. The M20 will probably be more expensive because it's a motorway, say at least €25m/km? If we say 100km long (other posters will know better if this is accurate) that's 100 * 25 = €2500m or €2.5bn for the M20.

That's huge money really. The govt seems to have underestimated the cost of nearly every major project in the development plan. I'd have to say at that price that €1bn for the Cork Luas would be a better project?

Isambard

Dats me wrote: »

When you can borrow at 0.25% I don't think there's an excuse for not going ahead with any important capital projects. Again I'd say RTÉ has proven itself as being worthwhile with the virus, but very off topic.

How much do people think the M20 will cost anyway? The Westport-Castebar dual carriageway announced last year is 20km long and costing €241m or €22m/km. The M20 will probably be more expensive because it's a motorway, say at least €25m/km? If we say 100km long (other posters will know better if this is accurate) that's 100 * 25 = €2500m or €2.5bn for the M20.

That's huge money really. The govt seems to have underestimated the cost of nearly every major project in the development plan. I'd have to say at that price that €1bn for the Cork Luas would be a better project?

if you borrow you have to pay back capital and interest. The economy is likely to be on it's knees and I can't see there being any justification to borrow for a road in that circumstance.

Sam Russell

Isambard wrote: »

if you borrow you have to pay back capital and interest. The economy is likely to be on it's knees and I can't see there being any justification to borrow for a road in that circumstance.

Well, there is talk about the Gov paying 75% of people wages if they are out of work due to the virus. The logical approach would be to use such funding to good use to build infrastructure as it is an investment in the future instead of using for non productive use.

We allowed business to wither away in 2008 with catastrophic results. The banks cost €60 billion, but the total cost was over €200 billion. Pity we did not keep the construction business going - at least we could have the M20 now, and possibly the Metro North and the Dublin Underground.

Current Irish Gov bonds are near zero interest.

Isambard

it's a good point but most people don't have the skills to build a motorway. Using available funds to build houses etc would be acceptable.

Sam Russell

Isambard wrote: »

it's a good point but most people don't have the skills to build a motorway. Using available funds to build houses etc would be acceptable.

There were 500,000 people put out of work because of the crash. A very few were bankers, but most were not. Some were engineers, plumbers, electricians, and builders, and some could drive a digger. It does not take all 500,000 workers to build a motorway.

Instead, the builders, engineers and others etc went to Australia and Canada and have not come back. That is why there is a proposal to keep businesses alive and employees employed, even though they will be on reduced earnings. When this virus passes, we can return to 'normal' without the tumbleweed blowing through the economy.

Isambard

well yes I agree, but to keep businesses alive they have to be able to sell their products and services to their customers. If they've no money, or reduced circumstances, how do they do that? In terms of the M20, our concern here, such a measure would do nothing to help, or very little.

Carawaystick

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Hit a concrete barrier and I’m sure it will hurt. But wires are for cutting.

There have been wires seperating medians for a long time, so if they were dangerous, there'd be evidence.

I know of one incident with a serious injury caused by the post of either wire or armco, that would be less with Jersey barier.